* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : what where is the barbarian (2nd Ed.) Started at 09-21-06 08:34 AM by Spectralion Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=706837 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Spectralion Date : 09-21-06 08:34 AM Thread Title : what where is the barbarian (2nd Ed.) I started playing roleplaygames with ad and d 2nd Ed. but lost contact to my original DM. Nevertheless for me 2nd Ed. was the king of it all so i managed to buy some used books (core rules). But where is the barbarian? And there are only mages! Where pls can i find barbarians and sorcerers? Did i miss something? Thank you for your help!:rolleyes: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Agathokles Date : 09-21-06 02:02 PM Thread Title : Re: what where is the barbarian (2nd Ed.) But where is the barbarian? And there are only mages! Where pls can i find barbarians and sorcerers? Did i miss something? Uhm, Barbarians existed in AD&D1e (Unearthed Arcana, IIRC). They were removed in AD&D2e, along with Monks, Cavaliers and Assassins. The idea was that a "Barbarian" could be portrayed with a Fighter or Ranger with the appropriate weapon and non-weapon proficiencies. However, there are at least a Barbarian kit (and a Berserker kit) in the Complete Fighter's Handbook, and a "Complete Barbarian's Handbook", which probably reintroduces the class itself. As for Sorcerers, if you mean 3e Sorcerers, they never existed in any OD&D or AD&D edition, though the class could be mimicked by using the Player's Option: Spells and Magic book, which introduces free magicks (that is, in 3e speech, "spontaneous spellcasting"). Note, however, that there were many wizard kits and classes in AD&D 2e -- see the growing list here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=682417 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Gerothian Date : 09-21-06 09:33 PM Thread Title : Re: what where is the barbarian (2nd Ed.) the barbarian was revised and put into a players handbook reference book on barbarians, its called pbhr the complete barbarians handbook and the monk was revied and put into one of the 3 forgotten realms books called faiths and avatars, demihuman deities or powers and patheons. as for the cavalier and assassin, i've brought them across into 2nd edition myself. the cavalier was split into 4 different cavalier classes - the original cavalier class from the 1st edition unearthed arcana book, the elven cavalier from dragon magazine issue #114 or 116, the drow elven cavalier and aquatic elven cavalier -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Spectralion Date : 09-22-06 06:43 AM Thread Title : Re: what where is the barbarian (2nd Ed.) Thank you very much you really helped me. hmm... time to create houserules.:D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : GreyLord Date : 09-24-06 09:46 PM Thread Title : Re: what where is the barbarian (2nd Ed.) The sorceror class can be found in the rules for the CRPG Baldurs Gate 2. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Agathokles Date : 09-25-06 03:52 AM Thread Title : Re: what where is the barbarian (2nd Ed.) The sorceror class can be found in the rules for the CRPG Baldurs Gate 2. Interesting. It seems that BG2 was a mix of AD&D2e and a few elements of 3e (monks, sorcerers, barbarian and half-orcs as "standard" classes and races). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Ateth_Istarlin Date : 09-25-06 05:34 AM Thread Title : Re: what where is the barbarian (2nd Ed.) Any Idea wher I can find CRPG Baldurs Gate 2? It sounds perfect for my hybrid game.:help: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Agathokles Date : 09-25-06 10:58 AM Thread Title : Re: what where is the barbarian (2nd Ed.) Any Idea wher I can find CRPG Baldurs Gate 2? It sounds perfect for my hybrid game.:help: Try the Planet Baldur's Gate website (http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/bg2/), theres's a summary of the rules. G. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Thrin Date : 09-25-06 01:55 PM Thread Title : Re: what where is the barbarian (2nd Ed.) the barbarian was revised and put into a players handbook reference book on barbarians, its called pbhr the complete barbarians handbook and the monk was revied and put into one of the 3 forgotten realms books called faiths and avatars, demihuman deities or powers and patheons. as for the cavalier and assassin, i've brought them across into 2nd edition myself. the cavalier was split into 4 different cavalier classes - the original cavalier class from the 1st edition unearthed arcana book, the elven cavalier from dragon magazine issue #114 or 116, the drow elven cavalier and aquatic elven cavalier The Assassin was a Thief kit in the Complete Theives book. I have no idea how well they did it, though. Wasn't the cavelier addressed in F&A, too? Or am I mistaken -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : Agathokles Date : 09-26-06 02:24 AM Thread Title : Re: what where is the barbarian (2nd Ed.) Wasn't the cavelier addressed in F&A, too? Or am I mistaken It was in the CFH. The CFH and CTH kits are usually less powerful than the original classes, though the cavalier is an exception, and it still is very powerful (actually, IMO too powerful). G. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : Thrin Date : 09-26-06 11:10 PM Thread Title : Re: what where is the barbarian (2nd Ed.) It was in the CFH. The CFH and CTH kits are usually less powerful than the original classes, though the cavalier is an exception, and it still is very powerful (actually, IMO too powerful). G. Ah-- I am looking now and see that F&A gives a new sub-class for Clerics called the Crusader, which is what I had in mind. But you're right re the Assassin and CTH. It seems weaker than the 1e class. I haven't looked at the CFH, though. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Spectralion Date : 09-29-06 03:23 PM Thread Title : Re: what where is the barbarian (2nd Ed.) The linked file doesnt exist anymore.:weep: And thank you all for your help and interest. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Wyrmbane Date : 09-30-06 12:44 AM Thread Title : Re: what where is the barbarian (2nd Ed.) The Cavalier was a kit for the fighter, IIRC. The Assassin was a kit for the thief. Try the Fighters hand book and the Thief handbook for the kits. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : Vampirelord Date : 10-01-06 04:49 PM Thread Title : Re: what where is the barbarian (2nd Ed.) Any Idea wher I can find CRPG Baldurs Gate 2? It sounds perfect for my hybrid game.:help: If you're looking for the game, try eBay. :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : Agathokles Date : 10-02-06 03:06 AM Thread Title : Re: what where is the barbarian (2nd Ed.) The linked file doesnt exist anymore.:weep: Uhm, which linked file? G. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : Garonak Date : 10-02-06 07:33 AM Thread Title : Re: what where is the barbarian (2nd Ed.) The planet BG link. They've reorganized the site. Just browse through the site, you'll fin what you're looking for. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 17] Author : Agathokles Date : 10-02-06 11:02 AM Thread Title : Re: what where is the barbarian (2nd Ed.) The planet BG link. They've reorganized the site. Just browse through the site, you'll fin what you're looking for. Odd, the link doesn't point to any specific page, yet it is detected as faulty... anyway, this is the direct link: http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/bg2/character/classes/wizards/sorcerer/ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 18] Author : emeriliath Date : 10-31-06 05:06 PM Thread Title : Re: what where is the barbarian (2nd Ed.) i've brought them across into 2nd edition myself. the cavalier was split into 4 different cavalier classes - the original cavalier class from the 1st edition unearthed arcana book, the elven cavalier from dragon magazine issue #114 or 116, the drow elven cavalier and aquatic elven cavalier If you're playing with house rules, don't forget to add a paladin-cavalier or an anti-paladin-cavalier! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 19] Author : Extempus Date : 11-01-06 04:41 PM Thread Title : Re: what where is the barbarian (2nd Ed.) The Assassin was a Thief kit in the Complete Theives book. I have no idea how well they did it, though. In The Complete Thief's Handbook, it was decided that the assassin could be of any class, but was included as a thief kit to show how "a thief can be converted into an efficient, discreet killer" (p. 26). The assassin was reintroduced as a rogue subclass in The Scarlet Brotherhood, as well as the monk as a priest subclass (pp. 72-74). Personally, I have no clue why they dropped them only to bring them back a decade later. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 20] Author : Agathokles Date : 11-02-06 07:02 AM Thread Title : Re: what where is the barbarian (2nd Ed.) In The Complete Thief's Handbook, it was decided that the assassin could be of any class, but was included as a thief kit to show how "a thief can be converted into an efficient, discreet killer" (p. 26). The assassin was reintroduced as a rogue subclass in The Scarlet Brotherhood, as well as the monk as a priest subclass (pp. 72-74). Personally, I have no clue why they dropped them only to bring them back a decade later. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. They dropped them because AD&D 2e was originally an attempt at streamlining things: the idea was to compact classes into the four basic groups (plus psionicists, outside the core), and then use character kits to portray specialized class variants. So the Barbarian and Cavalier would be Fighter kits, and the Assassin a Thief kit -- but of course you could have Barbarian Clerics or Assassin Fighters as well (the Assassin Fighter kit is in a Dragon Magazine article, IIRC). They were reintroduced probably as a Greyhawk specific thing ("The Scarlet Brotherhood" being a setting-specific book), to represent more faithfully the setting as it was in AD&D 1e. Then which way was better is mostly matter of preferences -- personally I don't even use the Paladin as a class, since I prefer Paladin-like kits. Same for Assassins (they can belong to any class) and Cavaliers (just a Fighter variant, if at all needed). For Monks, I prefer to have martial artists of any class, so kits are still a better solution (actually, IMO the better oriental variant of AD&D is Dragonfist). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 21] Author : Higmorton Date : 11-04-06 06:48 PM Thread Title : Re: what where is the barbarian (2nd Ed.) The assassin and Monk are in 2nd ed as the Assassin of the Scarlet Brotherhood and Monk of the scarlet broherhood. I have a copy of the classes not sure what book it came from though. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 22] Author : Vampirelord Date : 11-04-06 07:27 PM Thread Title : Re: what where is the barbarian (2nd Ed.) Also, in the Complete Priest's Handbook there is a kit named "Fighting monk". -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:18 AM.