* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Table of AD&D 2md Edition adventurer population by level Started at 10-25-06 02:35 PM by elondir Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=727572 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : elondir Date : 10-25-06 02:35 PM Thread Title : Table of AD&D 2nd Edition adventurer population by level This is a table showing the level distribution of adventurers in a population of 10,000,000 people, in which 5% are adventurers. Ability score prerequisites are taken into account, as are the 2nd edition monster XP tables and the 2nd edition XP Advancement tables. One key assumption is that characters are fighting monsters of equal level to their own, and that a constant percentage die per encounter. As you can see, the survival rate is quite high to allow for a single 20th level wizard. Modifying the survival rate has a huge impact on level spread. For example, 20% lethality results in only three second level thieves in a population of 10 million, and all other characters are still first level. http://static.flickr.com/117/283787224_1340102fd9_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/12465156@N00/283787224) EDIT: Added psionicist and chronomancer, and added alignment restrictions to class probability. Note that I assumed a uniform alignment distribution (each alignment contains 1/9th of the total population). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Agathokles Date : 10-25-06 05:28 PM Thread Title : Re: Table of AD&D 2md Edition adventurer population by level This is a table showing the level distribution of adventurers in a population of 10,000,000 people, in which 5% are adventurers. [/IMG] Nice table. One point you don't take into account is that not necessarily someone with the given requirements will become, e.g., a Paladin -- maybe there isn't enough demand, or simply that person has no faith, etc. So it is unlikely that all the base classes start with the same numbers -- e.g., there aren't that many opportunities for Thieves, 140,000 of them on 10,000,000 total population would mean 1,4 Thieves per hundred inhabitants -- i.e. each person (children included) would be targeted by thieves at least every three month, if each Thief stole one per day. OTOH, a nation might maintain standing armed forces equal to 2.5% of its population. Even if only veterans and officers were Fighters, it would mean that most Fighters, if not all, would be in the military (especially if the nation is a militant one). So, I would modify the base percentages -- you might take those given for specific nations in AD&D sources (Red Steel has distributions for most of its nations), or simply use "average" parties (50% Fighters, 20% Clerics, 10% Wizards, 10% Thieves, 10% all others). Another interesting point (but leading to, more or less, similar considerations) is that early survival rates would be lower for wizards and thieves (few hit points, limited abilities). OTOH, wizards quickly become very powerful, so the distribution would be skewed towards the high levels. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : elondir Date : 10-25-06 05:34 PM Thread Title : Re: Table of AD&D 2md Edition adventurer population by level All valid points. I don't think I'm going to go much further than the table I've got though, because the algorithm was a pain to figure out as it is. Take these as an upper limit, if you will. Also I didn't take alignment into cosideration! So paladins, rangers, etc. are way higher than "actual" values would be. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : oralpain Date : 10-28-06 07:33 PM Thread Title : Re: Table of AD&D 2md Edition adventurer population by level Having a class and a level does not always imply adventurer. Most fighters probably will be military veterans, but even war is much safer than adventuring, in general. Most wizards will probably be students, assistants, teachers, hedge wizards, or hermits, and will not face the rigors of adventure and combat often. I really don't like this chart because it assumes that most exp is gained in combat encounters, this is very far from the truth, at least in my games, even among violent adventurers who eat, sleep, and crap combat. Generally, I just assume a level to level survial rate of 50% per level for adventures, 75% per level for front line military people, and 95% per level for others. I also deem that characters with levels are at most 5-10% of the population. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Agathokles Date : 10-29-06 03:27 AM Thread Title : Re: Table of AD&D 2md Edition adventurer population by level Having a class and a level does not always imply adventurer. That is true, yet non-adventurer probably grow in level more slowly, compensating for their higher survival rate. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : elondir Date : 10-30-06 01:17 PM Thread Title : Re: Table of AD&D 2md Edition adventurer population by level Having a class and a level does not always imply adventurer. Most fighters probably will be military veterans, but even war is much safer than adventuring, in general. Most wizards will probably be students, assistants, teachers, hedge wizards, or hermits, and will not face the rigors of adventure and combat often. I really don't like this chart because it assumes that most exp is gained in combat encounters, this is very far from the truth, at least in my games, even among violent adventurers who eat, sleep, and crap combat. Generally, I just assume a level to level survial rate of 50% per level for adventures, 75% per level for front line military people, and 95% per level for others. I also deem that characters with levels are at most 5-10% of the population. What means of acquiring XP are there, outside of combat and trap disarming, that are worth 15 levels? Also, this chart assumes 5% of the total population has class levels. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : elondir Date : 10-30-06 01:37 PM Thread Title : Re: Table of AD&D 2md Edition adventurer population by level Also, setting a 50% survival rate doesn't jive well with campaigns above 12th level or so. There are no leveled NPCs if you assume that. A party of six 12th-level PCs are so powerful in such a world that nothing could stop them from conquering it. Also note that the thief class is just the old name for rogue. So there aren't necessarily 150,000 pickpockets out there, just 150,000 people who are good at picking locks and disabling traps, who happen to be good at sneaking up on unsuspecting targets. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : elondir Date : 10-30-06 01:48 PM Thread Title : Re: Table of AD&D 2md Edition adventurer population by level That is true, yet non-adventurer probably grow in level more slowly, compensating for their higher survival rate. The rate of level gain in this case is irrevelant; these figures are for the current adventurer level spread in any random sample of total population. Enough time has passed retroactively (30 years is probably long enough, assuming that a steady 5% of the population has been adventuring) for all classes to have reached this capacity. Also I have calculated that a PC party starting at first level and having four encounters per day, every day, will be 20th level in only 72 days. I would take that as the bare minimum time to reach level 20. The average character might have four encounters per week, not per day (assuming four combats per weekly game session). That would still be about a year and four months. NPCs might take ten times longer than that, or 720 weeks, about 14 years to go epic. I typically assume about one level per year for NPC ages. Note that the 3rd edition column demonstrates a linear distribution; if you use RAW you instead have MAXLEVEL/LEVEL proportions, then normalized to the 5%. That puts the cap closer to what you might expect. Here is the 3rd edition version using RAW and maxxing out at 26th level (to match the 2nd edition chart): level population 1 138,976 2 69,488 3 46,325 4 34,744 5 27,795 6 23,163 7 19,854 8 17,372 9 15,442 10 13,898 11 12,634 12 11,581 13 10,690 14 9,927 15 9,265 16 8,686 17 8,175 18 7,721 19 7,315 20 6,949 21 6,618 22 6,317 23 6,042 24 5,791 25 5,559 26 5,345 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:18 AM.