* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Monster "adoption" Started at 12-09-06 09:45 AM by Ferns Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=752880 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Ferns Date : 12-09-06 09:45 AM Thread Title : Monster "adoption" One of my players is eager to have a monster as a pet, actually he wants a dragon, but i have told him that, that is not an option at the moment. Then he continous to tell me "I want this I want that". We are playing the AD&D 2nd ed. and here is the question: How does a player adopt a monster and what skills does he have to have. I presume some kind of monster lore at 1 point maybe 2 points cost, then some monster training again 1 or 2 points, then some charisma check is needed. But whats your five cents on this subject? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : EntropyDawn Date : 12-09-06 10:33 AM Thread Title : Re: Monster "adoption" One of my players is eager to have a monster as a pet, actually he wants a dragon, but i have told him that, that is not an option at the moment. Then he continous to tell me "I want this I want that". We are playing the AD&D 2nd ed. and here is the question: How does a player adopt a monster and what skills does he have to have. I presume some kind of monster lore at 1 point maybe 2 points cost, then some monster training again 1 or 2 points, then some charisma check is needed. But whats your five cents on this subject? Well, that depends on if you can justify it as his familiar or if you just find it in the woods and want to take it home. I think you would have to capture the aforementioned monster though and have a high level of creature lore/beast handling/the tongue to communicate with it to be able to train it in any respects. As well as having a certain level of intelligence and charisma. Else if the dragon is too arrogant for example it would just eat him instead of listen to him. As DM you can set up any rule you like on it though. make it into an NPC that you control or someone else does but make it somewhat obedient or not as you like. But if its his familiar, then your (somewhat demanding from the sounds of it) player will have a much easier time of controlling it. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Ferns Date : 12-09-06 11:30 AM Thread Title : Re: Monster "adoption" It will not be the "find familiar" spell that will come to use, 'cause my player is afraid of the consequences of it, if the familiar dies or run away. About that monster lore, beast handling and language how many nwp should be used? My suggestion is: Lore 2 Handling 2 Language 1 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : EntropyDawn Date : 12-09-06 12:56 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster "adoption" Thats pretty much entirely at your discretion as DM. I wouldnt say take so many points it is labeled as an impossible thing. But enough that its definitely "Difficult" to say the least. Dragons are extremely strong willed and much harder to tame than almost all creatures. It also depends on the age of the creature when you "find" it since it wont be given as a familiar -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Agathokles Date : 12-09-06 02:16 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster "adoption" Dragons are extremely strong willed and much harder to tame than almost all creatures. Also, since Dragons are intelligent (actually, most of them are likely to be more intelligent than the character), an "handling" NWP would not be that useful -- you can't "tame" a Dragon, no more than you would "tame" a human or demihuman. Other than perhaps for White Dragons, who tend to be quite stupid, at least the young ones (I'd assume any dragon with spell knowledge to be at least of average intelligence), "taming" (actually, subduing) shouldn't be an option -- even if the character could manage to subdue the dragon, it would turn on its "master" at earliest opportunity, and since most dragons are as powerful as a high level adventurer, the PC's life expectancy would drop significantly ;) In order to subdue the dragon, anyway, the PC would have to beat it in combat while inflicting only subdual damage (so no fireballs, etc.). That said, you could probably allow a high level adventurer to capture and subdue a very young white (or black, at most) Dragon. I wouldn't ask for any proficiency, except possibly a Language and, if the PC wishes to ride the dragon, a Ride (Airborne) proficiency. Any other association of Dragons and humans/demihumans should be on the base of friendship or contract, and should be IMO ruled using the henchmen rules rather than nwps. For other monsters, I'd consider Intelligence first. If the monster is intelligent (average or more), the above consideratinos apply. For low-intelligence or animals, appropriate "Animal handling" or "Monster handling" proficiencies would be required (the "monster" variant would probably require 1 more nwp slot than the basic Animal handling nwp). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : caeruleus Date : 12-09-06 03:13 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster "adoption" I'd say make him earn it, such as by using the 1e rules for subduing a dragon. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Ferns Date : 12-10-06 01:51 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster "adoption" I was thinking about giving him the opportunity to raise a Dragonet, Pseudodragon which is neutral (good) as my player. He will find the egg in a subtropical forrest/cave. It is not as smart as him since he has an intelligence of 14 and the dragonet has 8-10. It is a tiny creature and not that aggresive. But he will have to find out much about the egg and how to hatch it in the first place, what it feeds on, and the like. The monster manual writes that it can choose a human companion and via telepathy can communicate with that human. So that's my thought on how to solve the little "problem", what do you guys think, is it reasonable and realistic? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Agathokles Date : 12-10-06 04:55 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster "adoption" It is not as smart as him since he has an intelligence of 14 and the dragonet has 8-10. It is a tiny creature and not that aggresive. It's a good compromise, assuming the player likes it. Anyway, an 8-10 Intelligence means that the Pseudodragon is basically as intelligent as the average human -- so the hatchling should be treated more as a child than as a pet -- and since it won't be a familiar, you can expect, in time, some "family trouble" with adolescent pseudodragons :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Ferns Date : 12-11-06 01:20 AM Thread Title : Re: Monster "adoption" Indeed there will be trouble Agathokles :D my player will not have an easy time with the pseudodragon, especially since it is very easy to offend and it can read his every thought. I was thinking in the direction of some kind of spoiled kid attitude who will, if spoiled enought, do as its "parent" says (read begs). It will not be an easy thing to handle, and will provide great roleplay to the game. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : GoriceXII Date : 12-11-06 03:45 AM Thread Title : Re: Monster "adoption" Adopting monsters depends on the situation. For instance one of my players became companion to a pseudo dragon she encountered on an adventure. It is like having a much younger sibling for her, and she has to deal with its curiousity and impish behavior, but it is also highly useful as a friend. The thing is, they fought the same enemies during that adventure, she saved the little creature's life and treats him more or less like a little brother. On the other hand my players in their last game briefly acquired a hill giant as a companion. The giant had been forced to surrender and agreed to help guide them a certain range of the way. The party were suspicious of him but acted friendly enough, making sure he was fed and offered a share of the loot. At the first sign of serious trouble that took all their attention he ran for it. So I think both these examples show how it depends a lot on the alignments in question, and the shared interests in question. Intelligence is also a factor. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : EntropyDawn Date : 12-11-06 10:47 AM Thread Title : Re: Monster "adoption" Sounds like you got a working idea there :cool: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Extempus Date : 12-11-06 10:14 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster "adoption" Why would someone want a monster as a pet? Greyhawk Adventures had something interesting to say about that very subject (p. 20; emphasis below is mine): This chapter describes the many and varied monsters found near (and sometimes in) the city of Greyhawk. The astounding variety of monsters found in and around Greyhawk is a direct result of an unusual fad which gripped the city several hundred years ago--it seemed as if everyone wanted mated pairs of unusual creatures. At that time, a huge market existed for expensive mated pairs of rare (and often dangerous) creatures. The mated pair business was big business. All too often, however, the new owners of these rare (and often dangerous) creatures didn't know how to take care of them. Many monsters were set free, and others escaped into the wilds around the city. There they grew and raised their young. And that is why creatures normally found only in the Crystalmist Mountains or the Plains of the Paynims can be found near the city of Greyhawk. Needless to say, there is now a law against bringing mated pairs of any creature into the Greyhawk area. Strangers are always amazed when their male and female donkeys are slain before their very eyes, right in front of the gates of the city. Such precautions are a little like locking the barn door after the horse escapes, however--countless unusual creatures thrive in the Greyhawk area. A monster pet is not exactly like having a dog, a cat or a bird. A dragon is going to be very expensive to maintain, and will undoubtedly attempt to escape unless subdued (and even then, it's still not exactly a pet). Our characters subdued a black dragon many years ago, but he essentially does what he wants unless we need his services for something. He otherwise does not (and would not) hang out with anyone and get chummy. He knows who's boss... here's something interesting from the 1e Monster Manual (p. 30): A dragon remains subdued for an indefinite period, but if the creature is not strongly held, well treated, given ample treasure, and allowed ample freedom, it will seek to kill its captor and/or escape. We also have a vampire named George, but he's hardly a pet (he's totally loyal due to the ring of vampire control he's bound to; should it ever be destroyed, he would turn on us in a heartbeat!). We recently took as booty from Geoff a ring of djinni summoning (from Against the Giants: The Liberation of Geoff), but Ousson, the djinni, is a servant like George and not a pet... the best part is, George requires almost no care whatsoever (he has a magical ring which enables him to appear as a normal human, gain sustenance from regular food, and even go out in sunlight!), and Ousson lives on the Elemental Plane of Air and takes care of himself... Ultimately, I wouldn't allow a player to have a monster as a pet, but as a magically-controlled servant, that's another story. Other than a subdued dragon who shows up briefly on occasion or a special familiar, it ain't gonna happen in my campaign... Anyway, just my :twocents:... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Arcanda Date : 12-12-06 03:01 AM Thread Title : Re: Monster "adoption" Just my 2 cents: A dragon pet should be rised from the egg. So, allow your players to find a dragon's hoard with a single egg. I suggest you a blue dragon's egg (later we will learn why). If your party is low level, it could be they found a dragon lair just after the dragon was killed by a 3rd party. The lair is deserted and full of deadly traps (just to spice a bit). If your party is high level, it could be nice to have a fighting vs the dragon! Anyway, your party ends up with a dragon egg. Now... whay temperature and umidity needs the egg to hatch as it should? Probably the party does not know... so allow them to find someone (maybe a sage, a wizard dracologist, a halfdragon guy, etc) someone that knows. And that could teach how to take care of a dragon egg and of a dragon hatchling. Of course, working with the expert guy, the PC should spend a proficency point to learn blue dragons handling. If he doesn't... let the egg die! After that, the egg will hatch. A small blue dragon will hatch from it, with his zaphire gem. A dragon hatches already knowing a single language, becouse his mom speacks to it inside the egg, and the baby learns. This new dragon should know the PC language. I use these from the Council of the Wyrms set, that could be extremely useful. So the dragon will rise, learning all the PC wants, becouse the blue dragon is lawful. Blues are "social", they have a gerarchy: the chief of all blues being known as the "Suzerain". The small blue will instintively assume the PC rising him is his Suzerain. The PC will assume the blue is respecting him and is also loving him as a common pet could. But the young blue is rising and learning and training to overcome the current Suzerain and became eventually the new Suzerain of the party! A nice plot twist! Bibliografy: Council of the Wyrms Draconomicon (Forgotten Realms accessory) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : Ferns Date : 12-12-06 05:05 AM Thread Title : Re: Monster "adoption" It can be argued whether a pseudodragon is a monster or not i guess, since i have the idea that a "monster" is typically evil. Good alligned monsters are called fabled creatures in my opinion. So I can easily see the problems of having a "real" dragon/monster at ones service, (the thing about it wanting it to be master and escaping and all) and that is why i wouldnt allow it in the first place. My player understood this but kept rambling about several other options. That is why i searched in the monster manuals i have and finally came to term with the pseudodragon. Mainly because i like the description, where it says the pseudodragon can read the pc's mind and CHOOSE whether it wants to stay or not. Secondly because it has the same allignment as the 3 players that is in my campaign. The pseudodragon will like them all, and will not hesitate to stick with them rather than just fly away. I think it could be a fun and new aspect of a npc. About the blue dragon, yes it is lawful but also evil in nature, and it will give some very big problems to the players which are all good alligned. It will eventually come down to a showdown between the dragon and either the pc's or some npc dragon slayers. Which is not a bad thing but I don't want that, at least not in this campaign. But the idea is good, so maybe i will use it in another campaign. Preferable where the pc's are evil. Keep the posts coming, I think it is a fun subject to discuss and see your different views on the matter :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : GoriceXII Date : 12-12-06 09:05 AM Thread Title : Re: Monster "adoption" Another interesting example is in the Temple of Elemental Evil campaign. A rescued Elvish noblewoman if treated well is stated to send the player who treated her best a magical Ring of the Unicorn. This creates a sympathy towards the wielder as long as they never mistreat a unicorn. So theoretically a magical item or spell could also be used for a monster. However with a dragon I imagine that their magical resistance and strength of will would constantly contest that. However I think I forgot before about Michael Moorcock's Melnibone. An evil person or nation aligned towards evil could have a special relationship with monsters such as elementals, demons and dragons. Obviously the Dragonlance series is depicting such a group. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : Arcanda Date : 12-12-06 07:06 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster "adoption" About the blue dragon, yes it is lawful but also evil in nature, and it will give some very big problems to the players which are all good alligned. It will eventually come down to a showdown between the dragon and either the pc's or some npc dragon slayers. Which is not a bad thing but I don't want that, at least not in this campaign. But the idea is good, so maybe i will use it in another campaign. Preferable where the pc's are evil.The showdown between the blue dragon and the PCs is the climax of the story! The dragon decides that he could try to become the new Suzerain, he challenges the PC (the previous Suzerain in the dragon way of thinking) It would definitely not work with an evil party... much of the fun cames from the dragon being evil, but lawful and rigidly subdued by the current Suzerain... so the dragon will always obey to Suzerain's commands, but he will grow frustrated: he will not be allowed to kill a wandering maiden for the only pleasure of killing her; he will not be allowed to pursue a surrending enemy, etc etc. Eventually, he will thinkhis Suzerain is a weak one (becouse he lacks the courage of killing a beaten enemy), and will challange him togain the position and the rulership. If you don't like this way, I suggest you to use the "kindred" rules in Councils of the Wyrms. I think it would be less amousing than the blue dragon above, but if you like it... A kindred is a vassal of a dragon liege. A dragon could take a liking for a PC and allow him to be his kindred. Kindreds can be only elves, dwarves and gnomes (becouse the live long enought) and must take the kindredbond non-weapon proficency (1 slot; wisdom -2). Of course... one could think that the dragon is not the pet, but the demihuman is! Is your player ready to play the role of a "pet" character? It could be a playing challenge very intriguing! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 17] Author : GoriceXII Date : 12-13-06 01:18 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster "adoption" In a recent game my player's pseudo dragon companion revealed in an excited moment that it has delusions of grandeur, imagining itself to be a Great Wyrm, thundering roars of triumph, slaughtering enemies, languishing on a vast horde. With a beautiful human companion cooing admiration at its deeds. It sees itself as the hero. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 18] Author : Extempus Date : 12-13-06 05:27 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster "adoption" While thinking about this last night, I realized that there are some examples of characters (NPCs, naturally) who do have monstrous pets. Tobin Potriades, senior tutor at the Guild of Wizardry, has a pet changecat named Tiddles; Tobin is a 16th level wizard, which might explain why (Greyhawk: Folks, Feuds, and Factions, p. 20, from The City of Greyhawk boxed set). On the other hand, in the 1e Rogue's Gallery (p. 42), a 5th level wizard named Grimslade has a pet named Fido, "which appears roughly as a cross between a wombat and a miniature umber hulk. Its only ability is its bite." While Fido is obviously a monster of some sort, it's probably less than 2' tall and essentially harmless. If anything, low level characters could have a pet like Fido, but nothing truly monstrous until they are quite powerful (at least 12th-15th level, IMHO)... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 19] Author : emeriliath Date : 12-14-06 01:57 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster "adoption" Having monsters is not that different from having henchmen. The DM just needs to balance encounters to make the adventures challengable. Pets can cause trouble for PCs. They may not be welcome in town; they may attract unwanted predators in search of a meal; they could be blamed (incorrectly) for a rash of killings. During an enounter, a pet dragon could breathe on the enemy only to accidentally hit some party members as well. I remember one party had flying mounts and ran into a group of wyverns. Between damage and poison, some of the mounts died. Characters fell 1000 ft and magic items had to make saves at -199 (if I remember correctly). Now if they didn't have pets with them, they wouldn't have lost any magic. The power of the creature needs to be balanced with the power of the PCs, just like magic items. Low-level characters shouldn't get a pet dragon, just like you wouldn't give them +6 magic items or rings with 8 wishes. There has to be some balance or it's just Monty Haul. If the creature is intelligent and doing its fair share of combat, it should be demanding on getting its share of the loot. This could be used to better housing, food or personal ornementation. Don't forget, not too many creatures are alone in the world. Everybody's got a friend somewhere. They may try to come rescue their friend. Or maybe a greater dragon sees the "pet" and assumes the party enslaved it and will pay for their arrogance. There are no free rides. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 20] Author : GoriceXII Date : 12-14-06 02:40 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster "adoption" There's also frankly just the simple problem of 'how'? It's a lot easier said than done anyway. Dragons are hardly common and when encountered are not likely to be bounding to the window of a giant pet shop wagging huge tails. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 21] Author : chatdemon Date : 12-15-06 11:21 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster "adoption" It will not be the "find familiar" spell that will come to use, 'cause my player is afraid of the consequences of it, if the familiar dies or run away. If that is the case, I personally would put a stop to any such attempts by the player to gain a "pet". Basically, it sounds to me like the player wants extra attacks, some cool special abilities, etc but wants no strings attached. The main drawback is fairness to the other players, who will soon be making such requests of their own when they see how easily the first player gained all the new benefits. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 22] Author : Agathokles Date : 12-16-06 09:36 AM Thread Title : Re: Monster "adoption" If that is the case, I personally would put a stop to any such attempts by the player to gain a "pet". Basically, it sounds to me like the player wants extra attacks, some cool special abilities, etc but wants no strings attached. The main drawback is fairness to the other players, who will soon be making such requests of their own when they see how easily the first player gained all the new benefits. Indeed, but other drawbacks can be as effective -- if the monster is considered as an henchman, it will eat up XPs and treasure, and may well leave if not satisfied with his terms of service. If the monster is no more powerful than any other henchman available to the party, then there is no real problem with the other players -- of course, a dragon would be too much as an henchman, except for very high level characters, but pseudo-dragons and other lesser dragonkin might be used. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 23] Author : havard Date : 12-16-06 12:00 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster "adoption" I agree with Agathokles. My motto in RPGs is "never say no. Always say yes, but..." Regardless of the motives of the player, this should be seen as a roleplaying opportunity. The more powerful the "pet", the greater should be the difficulties involved. The pet could have independent motives, or would attract others of its kind, enemies of its kind, envious rulers etc. OTOH, the pet should also not end up as only a problem. The player has come up with an idea for something he would like to play, and he should be entitled his share of the fun. Never forget to let your players shine. Havard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 24] Author : Ferns Date : 12-23-06 02:15 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster "adoption" I seldom say no to players either, so I'll think I'll go with the pseudodragon idea as a a henchmen. Ofcourse the player will have to care for the egg he will find and use a nwp slot to do this. The idea of the little dragon getting all ecxited and believing its a great wyrm is extremely funny, and I'll definately use that. Thanks for all the responses. Keep the posts coming about monster adoption, its a great subject to read about and see your different views on this. Happy hollidays -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 25] Author : Llwch Date : 12-31-06 09:08 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster "adoption" After that, the egg will hatch. A small blue dragon will hatch from it, with his zaphire gem. A dragon hatches already knowing a single language, becouse his mom speacks to it inside the egg, and the baby learns. This new dragon should know the PC language. I use these from the Council of the Wyrms set, that could be extremely useful. So the dragon will rise, learning all the PC wants, becouse the blue dragon is lawful. Blues are "social", they have a gerarchy: the chief of all blues being known as the "Suzerain". The small blue will instintively assume the PC rising him is his Suzerain. The PC will assume the blue is respecting him and is also loving him as a common pet could. But the young blue is rising and learning and training to overcome the current Suzerain and became eventually the new Suzerain of the party! A nice plot twist! Bibliography: Council of the Wyrms Draconomicon (Forgotten Realms accessory) Heh... Funny you should mention "Council of Wyrms"... I bought the hardcover on eBay (for a song, too - less than 1/2 the cover price, and it's brand new) because my kids (who are now getting into gaming) asked about having Dragons as pets (or at the very least, as mounts). I'm not adverse to allowing things like that, just so long as they don't sound like a gift. When I DM, ya don't get something for nothing. There's also the expression I use a lot when gaming (and in life)... "Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it!" Bruce -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 26] Author : Extempus Date : 01-01-07 04:43 AM Thread Title : Re: Monster "adoption" Well, after having ranted and raved about adopting a monster... guess what? LOL, actually, no one has adopted a monster, rather, a monster seems to have adopted the characters. They're currently in the Bright Lands, managed to capture Robilar, then took a trip 2,000+ years into the past through The Null (in the Sea of Dust - Atlas of the Flanaess, p. 63, in the From the Ashes boxed set) to the day before the fall of the Kingdom of Sulm and tracked down the palace of Shattados, returned to the present, killed everything in the dungeon with a massive number of cloudkills and took the scorpion crown (I know, I know, it was too easy, but their intention is to use it to lure and capture Rary in order to return him to Greyhawk to face murder charges, then place it in the Vault with some other dangerous artifacts they've collected over the years to gather dust and do no more harm)... of course, capturing him will not be easy, and there are other dangers to deal with in the desert besides the crown, such as Volte and his dragon automaton... Anyway, one of the inhabitants of the dungeon is a pseudodragon named Sunthistle (Rary the Traitor, pp. 44-45), of which it is said: She looks favorably upon a party that slays the room's occupants, and will accompany them for the duration of the adventure and beyond if she is treated well. The cloudkills did her in, but they restored her to life, and she has decided to accompany them for a while for reasons of her own (translation: the DM, ie, Extempus, has realized that Sunthistle will make a fun addition to the party and can lighten things up a bit without unduly altering anything), and since she is there of her own free will, she can come and go as she pleases... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 27] Author : Higmorton Date : 01-01-07 09:23 AM Thread Title : Re: Monster "adoption" Make up a Figurine of Wonderous Power - Dragon. The creature is only able to fly, bite, and use it claws. AC: 4 Hit Dice: 4 Hit Points: 32 Attacks: 1 Bite (2d.4) 2 claws (1d.4) each. Flight: 16 class C, Movement: 12 Figurine is fragile and can be broken, (When in dragon form) If reduced to 0 hit point it must rest for 1d.4 days per hit dice. Or do it another way. If you hve Council of the Wyrm. Create a hatchling dragon. He stumbles upon it, rescues it and has to raise it as a sibling (pet). He bonds with it. But it suffers the penalties of any other dragon character. Consider it an NPC for role-playing. If it adventures with them it would gain experience as well, so will have to rest as it grows. And thus not be inthe picture, and the player will have to figure out ways to protect it while it is rest, as well as find a good resting place for it as it grows. As well as the fatc how villager will react when they see a character coming in witha dragon as a pet to a town. Will make for good role-playing challenges. The player will have to rely more on his wits and quick think rather than dice rolls. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 28] Author : ZolDarklock Date : 01-07-07 10:56 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster "adoption" let him find a dragon egg, he'll be long dead and buried before it even gets old to chew solid food, and without the teachings from a true dragon, it wont have alot of it's abilities to use... and if he tries to magically age it, let him do it, he'll have a big wusp of a dragon that doesn't know jack -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:21 AM.