* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Help my Ranger to survive Started at 12-19-06 12:26 PM by Mailok Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=758294 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Mailok Date : 12-19-06 12:26 PM Thread Title : Help my Ranger to survive Hi! I'd like some suggestions by you about a pg of mine under ad&d 2nd edition rules ( I am italian so I try to translate as better as I can :) ). He is an half-elf ranger deeply influenced by drizzt archtype and I wasn't lucky in the creation (damned dice!) so he has str 13, dex 13, con 15, car 8, wis 14 for 34 HP (level 6). He is specialized in scymitar, short sword (my two weapons), short bow, hand crossbow (for background but this weapon is almost useless), whip (same as above, even with house rules I have so lower strenght to use it), dagger. Some fight abilities like blindfight and riding as well as other ranger-oriented one. I am in a group of 8-10 pg but I am in by short time so I haven't anything magic (instead of the others really well equipped) and is funny when the others adds so many bonus to hit dice or to damage and I nothing :) . Usually I wear studded leather to use the dual wielding abilities and the hiding ones, but with only ac of 7 I am really an easy target for the monsters, with so less HP I last just a fight or two before go back and shoot (and with no dex bonus I am not so effective). I think of using a banded armour with a shield and the scymitar, but the dual wielding and stealth abilities are gone . This PG really needs some luck and strategy to be played and I'd like to know your opinion about how I can handle the fight and which abilities or new weapon proficiencies or equipment I can take (for example a long sword with the short sword can be better than the scymitar?) or some house rules that I can show to my master to help my situation (for example the short xbow, it's a pity , so weak, no speed bonus, nothing) or even multiclassing if needed. Any help is usefull, thanks! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Arcanda Date : 12-19-06 02:09 PM Thread Title : Re: Help my Ranger to survive "Ciao": I'm Italian too! ;) I feel strange that a ranger could specialize in 2 weapons... what set of rules does permit it? And, as far as I know, a, 1/2-elf could not dualclass... multiclassing was an potion to choose at the beginning of your career, not now that you are 6th level! So... what could I do with such a PC? I would not try to make him a war machine. He is weaker than his team-mates in melee... "amen"! In combact sytuations I'd... escape! I'd search the rear of the party and use ranged weapons: short bow and crossbow seems nice. My house rule (extracted from a Dungeon magazine issue) is that bows use d6 in initiative, not d10 as all other weapons. That should help a little with the bow. I'd try to improve his wilderness abilities. Can him cook game? (translated: cucinare la cacciagione). Can him hunt? I'd choose proficencies such as: survival (woods), hunting, cooking, firebuilding... and I'd ask my team-mates to defend me in melee in excange of good food, an hot fire in the overland cold nights, a place in my tepee... In RPG it is too easy to forget about basic needs, but a guy who finds a water spring in the forest (survival should enable you to do so) is as precious as an ancient Atzec gold mine! He is a ranger... not a fighter ;) Otherwise, you could do a suicide mission, stepping from your party in front of the mighty green dragon Clauromorgyl and let your PC to die... and roll a new PC hoping that the Power of Luck (whoever he/she is in your fantasy world) will bless your dice casting! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Mailok Date : 12-19-06 02:54 PM Thread Title : Re: Help my Ranger to survive Hi Giovanni! Well, what you described is a real ranger role play style and it is the spirit of this class. Unfortunatly my group is fight oriented, even druids or clerics in it are fight oriented so it isn't so funny stay always behind :( Even the basic needs you wrote isn't so important in my group or they are resolved with just a simple hunting and some dice (even the wizard can hunt!). In my mind, when I choosed the ranger, is drizzt (stealth, deadly) and aragorn but I should read more, drizzt is first a fighter, then a ranger :) . You can say that now I must play my role...it isn't easy when all is resolved with a fight and we are so many that we can't even talk together to know something about us, we must follow the adventure. For sure, if I can build another pg in this group I will go for something different. By now, the archer-ranger style is a good idea, but I'd like so badly some dex bonus to add so it can help in AC and to hit. Probably the best advice is yours: a great, beautiful death and a reborn :D p.s. I live in Rome too, the world is real so little...even a fantasy one :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Agathokles Date : 12-19-06 03:27 PM Thread Title : Re: Help my Ranger to survive Toh, un altro connazionale :) hand crossbow (for background but this weapon is almost useless) Not so useless: let's have a look at its pros. 1) It's a very small weapon -- easily concealed. 2) Its darts can be poisoned. Ok, you're good, but that shouldn't prevent you from using paralytic/debilitating poisons. 3) It does have a speed bonus -- first round only, but it can be used to stop an enemy wizard from casting spells while your comrades close up for the kill (disrupt his concentration on the first round, when a loaded crossbow has a speed of 1). whip (same as above, even with house rules I have so lower strenght to use it), Still, this weapon can be used to perform disarming or other tricks (according to Player's Option: Combat & Tactics, you get a +2 to the roll for these maneveurs). Some fight abilities like blindfight and riding as well as other ranger-oriented one. You're an half-elf, so you have infravision. Blindfight might not be as useful as with other characters. Try selecting an uncommon proficiency that can have an impact on the campaign (knowledge of specific regions or monsters or cultures) -- it will also make your PC better defined. I am in a group of 8-10 pg but I am in by short time so I haven't anything magic (instead of the others really well equipped) and is funny when the others adds so many bonus to hit dice or to damage and I nothing :). Ok, given the high number of other PCs, you should go for a role of support fighter, rather than frontline -- i.e., use your crossbow or your shortbow, recurring to melee weapons only when forced to. Use your skills to take a superior position (find good cover), and then take out opponents with arrows. (for example a long sword with the short sword can be better than the scymitar?) It's not that different. Using paired short swords would allow you to get specialization bonuses on both (if you are allowed to specialize, or simply to keep one more slot otherwise), but, anyway, you won't fight in melee that much, at least until you find magic armor or other protective devices. You could then use the extra slot to buy one of the special talents from Combat & Tactics, if allowed, or an extra fighting style specialization (CFH), if the DM allows it. even multiclassing if needed. As Arcanda mentioned, you can't multiclass after 1st level, and half-elves cannot dual-class. However, if kits are used in your campaign, you could get a kit. Check the Complete Ranger's Handbook, the Complete Fighter's Handbook, or any book for your campaign setting. The Swashbuckler, Gladiator, and Myrmidon kits are all quite heavy on combat, but most kits give a few extra abilities that can help. The Defender (from the Savage Coast) gets spells early on, and it's also a good choice -- though kits mostly depend on the character concept. While you don't have magic items, you could try getting quality weapons (see CFH) -- at 6th level, they should suffice for a while. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Arcanda Date : 12-19-06 03:59 PM Thread Title : Re: Help my Ranger to survive Poison... What a nice idea for your ranger... Agathokles is right: you are a woodland guy... you could choose a "poison brewing" proficency. From some plant leaves (such as poison ivy) you could be able to produce poison. And knock out an enemy with a single shot: at 6th level it should be easy for your enemies to miss a saving trow versus poison! Your DM should be comprensive, but if he allows you to brew poison from plants, your PC could not need a spectacular death to try better chance with next character. You could use your missile weapons with poison and go for cover (hiding and using your superior movement: does your DM know that a lighttly encumbered ranger with a leather armor is quickier than a full barded fighter in full armor and shield?) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Mailok Date : 12-19-06 04:07 PM Thread Title : Re: Help my Ranger to survive Thanks to all for your ideas! The poison one was discussed with my master but his words were " if you can use it, I can use it too" so no poison for no one :D . It is also nice to discover that a great or accidental death of a pg can be so useful sometimes , so I hope to death soon :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Arcanda Date : 12-19-06 04:22 PM Thread Title : Re: Help my Ranger to survive Should you die soon and roll a new PC in the same party, I suggest you to play a fighter, rise his strenght as much as you can (depending on character creation method your DM uses), specialize him with a weapon. I suggest you a full-blooded elf bladesinger (an elvish martial art from The Complete Elves Handbook). Or a dwarf singleclassed-fighter with high strenght bonus, warhammer and dagger specialization, ambidexterity and two weapons style specialization: 2 weapons do great damage if you inflict +8 HP with any hit! You don't need magic! This second one is much more like a can (scatoletta simmenthal) with a plate mail! Of course... I'd like to play in a party where role playing is much more important than a +8 bonus! ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Mailok Date : 12-19-06 04:35 PM Thread Title : Re: Help my Ranger to survive So his topic seems to be renamed as "how to kill my ranger and make a good fighter" :D I agree with you, probably my idea of roleplay is different from the one in my group (I must say that the group is unbalanced with some pg loads of magic buffs and other like me with nothing, every kill is a loot-running to get the best weapon or magic items and you imagine, I kill so rarely that I never get something valuable...we have some incredible pg, wizard/mage elf that cast lightning and fight better than me (with not so many level up) with just an "undress" of the armor, but sometimes we flew and the armour "magically" return :( ) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : ozbirthrightfan Date : 12-19-06 05:54 PM Thread Title : Re: Help my Ranger to survive Don't try and be a front-line fighter type - if that was the case, then you should be playing a fighter and not a Ranger. If this was my PC, I'd buddy up with the party mage and use archery most of the time, with the occasional foray into melee when you can surprise weaker opponents using your stealth abilities. You will serve a valuable role in the party if you protect the mage from harm. The mage may also be able to cast spells on you for protection or to increase your effectiveness in battle. Perhaps you can persuade the mage to research a new spell that increases the effectiveness of your archery somehow. In time the mage might even be persuaded to create an enchanted bow or arrows once they attain a high enough level. All the best. Remember its not just a matter of whose character can kill the most enemies in a face-to-face fight!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : SamualT Barronsword Date : 12-19-06 06:11 PM Thread Title : Re: Help my Ranger to survive ...probably my idea of roleplay is different from the one in my group (I must say that the group is unbalanced with some pg loads of magic buffs and other like me with nothing, every kill is a loot-running to get the best weapon or magic items and you imagine, I kill so rarely that I never get something valuable...we have some incredible pg, wizard/mage elf that cast lightning and fight better than me (with not so many level up) with just an "undress" of the armor, but sometimes we flew and the armour "magically" return :( ) You know, your DM might be favoring some people over others. Giving 'magically returning" armor to the mage and the like. Mages shouldn't be allowed to wear armor until they want to cast spells, shed it like it was a hat, and then start casting spells, only to run off without collecting the armor back up again and have it magically reappear on them again when the mage needs/wants to be wearing it again. I gather that is what your implying. Without someones assistance, even the simplest armor (one piece non metal armor such as leather tunics) takes two rounds to take off or put on, one round if someone is helping. One piece metal armor (such as chainmail) takes four rounds to put on or take off oneself, two rounds if someone is helping. Armor with more pieces takes (1d6+4) x 2 rounds to put on or take off oneself, half that if being helped by another. Pg. 74, "Getting Into and Out of Armor", per my copy of the English version of the PHB. And if someone drops something and then runs off (or flys off) without picking it back up again, well, logically it should be gone. It is unfair for a DM to be super strict about what some PC's can get away with, and then let other PC's get away with whatever pleases them. It seems to me also, that the main problem you have is not really the Ranger or poor stats, its a lack of magic items for your PC, when other PC's are loaded with the stuff. The stats you posted are not that bad in my opinion. You should have a perfectly playable PC ranger. Not outstanding, but not hopless either. Even a character with better stats will not help you to much if the other PC's are loaded with magic and you are without any at all, they will always outshine you, and as you get higher level, the differences in power will only become worse and more apparent. Its a party decision of course, but you might suggest to the others that you devide treasure differently than what you describe. The you kill it, you keep its treasure is not necessarily how it has to be. Personally I think that is, in the long run, a stupid way to do it, even for the more powerful members of the party who benefit most from this way of doing it. (Having five magic weapons in your possesion will not do you any good if your charmed and the other PC's in your party run away because they don't have any magic weapons to fight the vampire with) Usually the way I've seen it done is, you participate in the fight and run an equal risk of getting killed as everyone else, you get an equal share of the treasure. This of course is easy to do with money and items of purely monetary intrest (such as gems). It gets a bit more difficult with magical items, but if everyone is being fair about it and logical (wizards don't need magical plate mail as much as the fighters, fighters don't need the wand of magic missles at all, everyone might want the guantlets of dexeterity, but really the thief could get the most use out of them), then treasure distribution could be done in such a way that everyone gets something (maybe not from this fight but sooner or latter thier turn will come) useful. If two fighters want the same sword and both are due a share of the treasure, have them role a dice, high dice gets the sword and the loser has to choose or settle for something else. Another way to do it, if there are to many arguments over who gets what treasure, is just put all the treasure found in a pile, everyone involved in the fighting and eligible for a share of the treasure rolls a 20 sided dice, highest die roll gets to pick one piece of treasure, next highest then gets to pick one, and so forth until there is nothing left to pick. If two people have the same number on the dice, when its thier turn to pick have them roll a dice between the two of them to see who goes first. Just some thoughts -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : Agathokles Date : 12-20-06 05:42 AM Thread Title : Re: Help my Ranger to survive You know, your DM might be favoring some people over others. Definitely, there seem to be some problem in party management, both in the DM fairness part and in the division of treasure... GP -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Ferns Date : 12-20-06 12:17 PM Thread Title : Re: Help my Ranger to survive After reading this thread I end up with a *sigh*, it sounds like your DM wants to rollplay rather than roleplay, and you want the opposite. I would find another group consisting of 3-5 players instead. Take your ranger with you and start roleplaying him. A sixth level ranger is a pretty good asset in any group, that wishes to survive in the wilderness. And so he should be! So quit the group and your ranger will survive. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Mailok Date : 12-20-06 05:25 PM Thread Title : Re: Help my Ranger to survive Thanks to all! Actually I wrote to my master about some ideas about add more "realism" as you suggest, hope he can think about them! Next time I will do as you suggest, avoid the front line, be a range(r) fighter :cool: I will update you of my progress... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : Mailok Date : 12-21-06 11:41 AM Thread Title : Re: Help my Ranger to survive One thing: you suggest to act as an archer, but we are so many that usually we outnumber the enemies so I have just one round to shoot becouse after I have to roll to hit the monster or the other pg in fight with it so to avoid some accidental death I can't shoot and fight instead. This is another reason to fight front line (or don't fight in my case :D) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : ozbirthrightfan Date : 12-21-06 06:54 PM Thread Title : Re: Help my Ranger to survive So you usually outnumber your opponents in battle?! What kind of game is your DM running?! :P -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : Mailok Date : 12-22-06 01:00 AM Thread Title : Re: Help my Ranger to survive :D we are 7,8 to 10 to play, not always is possibile to have more than 10 monster to kill (for example in dungeons with not so much space or in house etc.) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 17] Author : Mailok Date : 12-25-06 04:34 AM Thread Title : Re: Help my Ranger to survive Hi! Happy Xmas to all! Yesterday I found a manual for ad&d that can be useful for my pg: abilities and powers. Reading some lines it seems really good in define and make unique characters choosing the abilities you need (and more backgroundish :) ) with bonus and malus, someone use that rules? If so, can suggest a good abilities combo for my ranger? Thanks in advance!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 18] Author : Agathokles Date : 12-26-06 05:50 AM Thread Title : Re: Help my Ranger to survive Hi! Happy Xmas to all! Yesterday I found a manual for ad&d that can be useful for my pg: abilities and powers. Reading some lines it seems really good in define and make unique characters choosing the abilities you need (and more backgroundish :) ) with bonus and malus, someone use that rules? If so, can suggest a good abilities combo for my ranger? Thanks in advance!! Since you wanted more combat abilities, you should focus on weapon specialization and/or weapon of choice/weapon expertise. Another power boost can come from a wild talent. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 19] Author : Mailok Date : 12-26-06 05:57 AM Thread Title : Re: Help my Ranger to survive Another power boost can come from a wild talent. I haven't read about that yet, where is that talent? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 20] Author : Agathokles Date : 12-26-06 10:44 AM Thread Title : Re: Help my Ranger to survive I haven't read about that yet, where is that talent? In the Psionics section (last chapter, IIRC). GP -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 21] Author : Mailok Date : 12-26-06 01:46 PM Thread Title : Re: Help my Ranger to survive The abilities and powers italian edition hasn't that section, probably I can check that in the monster manual, if any :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 22] Author : Agathokles Date : 12-26-06 01:53 PM Thread Title : Re: Help my Ranger to survive The abilities and powers italian edition hasn't that section, probably I can check that in the monster manual, if any :) What? They cut it in the Italian edition? Too bad, I don't think you can find it in the Monster Manual. If you (or the DM) can get the AD&D Core Rules software, it's probably the easier way to get it (though the same rules are found in the revised Dark Sun box, and the original Psionics rules are found in the Complete Psionics Handbook). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 23] Author : Wyrmbane Date : 12-30-06 02:41 AM Thread Title : Re: Help my Ranger to survive Make an Elven Knight that specializes in bows. If you use the Combat Options and Tactics, even better. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:21 AM.