* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Character Help Started at 12-20-06 09:24 PM by NeoRaven01 Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=759184 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : NeoRaven01 Date : 12-20-06 09:24 PM Thread Title : Character Help I'm playing in an 2nd ed. AD&D game and our current campaign is coming to a close and I plan on playing a fighter who specializes in daggers. Any advice? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Agathokles Date : 12-21-06 04:57 AM Thread Title : Re: Character Help I'm playing in an 2nd ed. AD&D game and our current campaign is coming to a close and I plan on playing a fighter who specializes in daggers. Any advice? It's definitely a nice choice. I'd recommend a roguish fighter -- choose a kit or NWPs that match this role. One options could be a Fighter, with a roguish kit (Swashbuckler, Outlaw, see CFH); get the Two-Weapon Style specialization, Ambidexterity and dagger specialization. The Swashbuckler might use twin main gauches or stiletti instead of daggers, and would gain a -2 AC bonus in light armor as well as the possibility of taking rogue proficiencies at basic cost. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : NeoRaven01 Date : 12-21-06 06:36 PM Thread Title : Re: Character Help Thanks bunches! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : ozbirthrightfan Date : 12-21-06 06:57 PM Thread Title : Re: Character Help I'm playing in an 2nd ed. AD&D game and our current campaign is coming to a close and I plan on playing a fighter who specializes in daggers. Any advice? Make sure you also take at least on weapon proficiency in a weapons that can deal decent damage to large creatures. Otherwise the next time you come up against an ogre, your 1d3+2 damage will look a lilttle... poor. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Wyrmbane Date : 12-23-06 05:50 PM Thread Title : Re: Character Help If you're using the mastery rules, definately take the daggers up to grand mastery. Carry lots of throwing daggers and you have a nice machinegun until he runs out of ammo. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Horemheb442 Date : 12-29-06 05:39 PM Thread Title : Re: Character Help You know, unless you have a particular backstory in mind or something, I wonder why daggars? If he is a streetfighter rather than a front line fighter I could see that, like a Fighter/Thief who is a "hitman" for the Guild and is "undercover" with the team. Apart from something like that, the basic object of a fighter is to take out your opponent as quickly as possible while sustaining the least amount of damage yourself. That just doesn't sound like daggars to me. I would think any Sensai or Weapons Master you would train with would have given your PC that lesson in short order. Just a thought. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Wyrmbane Date : 12-30-06 02:39 AM Thread Title : Re: Character Help Considering you can throw something that does the same damage as a short sword, they're not bad. And you can throw 6 of them. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Higmorton Date : 12-31-06 02:05 PM Thread Title : Re: Character Help If that is the case he should use darts instead. With str bonuses for damage and dex bonus to hit. Add in the poison and what a combination. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Horemheb442 Date : 12-31-06 05:37 PM Thread Title : Re: Character Help A thrown daggar does the same damage as a short sword? Pgs. 94 & 95 in PHB: daggar 1d4 for sm/med, 1d3 for large. ROF is 2/1. We don't use kits much, so that may effect it some, and we play it that you can't specialize at 1st level, only as you earn the subsequent slots, which I think makes sense. A short sword does 1d6 for sm/med and 1d8 for large, plus strength if any. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : RobertFisher Date : 01-03-07 10:06 AM Thread Title : Re: Character Help See, that's why I'm so tempted by classic D&D's everything-does-1d6. Or, even better, class-based damage. Weapon choice should have more to do with flavor than mechanics. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : Wyrmbane Date : 01-04-07 09:34 PM Thread Title : Re: Character Help If you are using mastery, when he gets to Grand Mastery his weapon uses the next higher die. So if a dagger is 1d4 it does 1d6. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Horemheb442 Date : 01-05-07 10:11 PM Thread Title : Re: Character Help Never dealt with mastery. Did specialization and that could change things some. As for everything doing the same damage or the damage by class...? Pick up a daggar. It weighs maybe a pound or two, has a blade 6 to 12 inches long. It can be really sharp. Pick up a gladiuis, the Roman short sword. It weighs about 8 to 10 lbs., has a blade about 18 to 20 inches long and isn't all that sharp. Besides cutting off your leg, it can be used to cut wood for your campfire. They don't do remotely the same damage. I understand game convenience and all that, but some part of me says a thief stabbing someone with a dagger doesn't do near as much as the same guy chopping someone down with a shortsword. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Wyrmbane Date : 01-06-07 02:30 PM Thread Title : Re: Character Help Any weapon used correctly is lethal. Any weapon hitting critical spots is very lethal. A dagger thrust into the kidneys is far more effective than that zweihander chop that takes off all the toes. That's essentially what specialization (and the expanded mastery) is, using the weapon more effectively. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : Agathokles Date : 01-06-07 05:24 PM Thread Title : Re: Character Help I understand game convenience and all that, but some part of me says a thief stabbing someone with a dagger doesn't do near as much as the same guy chopping someone down with a shortsword. Actually, the usage of a dagger and that of a short sword are not that different -- both are close combat stabbing weapons. And since the depth needed to inflict a deadly wound is very limited, the additional length of the short sword is used to add some reach rather than to make the weapon more deadly. In game terms, the short sword does some more damage, especially against large targets (where the need to inflict a deep wound is higher), but the dagger is faster and easier to hide. Moreover, the dagger can be thrown, making it a good choice as a weapon of a specialized warrior. Of course, as mentioned, a fighter specializing in daggers is more likely to be a urban warrior who can't carry a lot of specialized weapons (a field warrior could carry spear, longsword, dagger and bow to cover all ranges of enemies), or needs to hide his weaponry, finally doesn't have much choice. He can complement the dagger with the sling, which is even easier to hide, does good damage against large targets, has a long range (this allows the character, who will probably be lightly armored, to keep the distance from his foes) and finally does a different type of damage (useful e.g. against skeletons), or with weapons related to his profession (e.g., an assassin could use the folding bow, a swashbuckler might choose the rapier, a gipsy may choose a tool-weapon such as the handaxe, and a pirate could choose the harpoon or a long range missile weapon) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : exorb Date : 01-06-07 06:48 PM Thread Title : Re: Character Help I have not seen the expanded mastery rules that he is referring to above. And don’t know if it’s a 2nd ED add on or not? Regardless of the bonuses or negatives you should choose the weapon you envision this character having. It makes the game more fun. *Page 52 Players Handbook 2ED Dagger specialization in melee (for the pure- single fighter class only) # of attacks 3/2 one attack in the first round – two attacks in the second round. +1 to Hit , and +2 on Damage I think to make full use of specialization of the dagger it might be smarter to go shield-less. Unlike most weapons – the dagger is one of the very few that you can use two of the same type of weapon in combat. So you would get two attacks in round one 1-4+2, 1-4+2 and three attacks in the second round:1-4+2, 1-4+2, 1-4+2 = 3-12 +6 damage.(if you hit with them all) + any STR bonus. That’s pretty damn good! The use of the 2nd hand attack will be -4 but since the weapon has been specialized only -3. You’ll need a high dex and str to pull this off. So you can cut the to hit penalty down and have a fairly good AC. Specialization of the thrown dagger (for the pure- single fighter class only) – # of attacks 3/1 three every round. This would take up two of four allotted weapon proficiencies. +2 to hit with each, from within 60 feet. . 1-4, 1-4, 1-4. = 3-12 (if you hit with all of them) What if I go shield-less? Well according to Combat rules on page 96 – The Character gains only one additional attack per round regardless of the number of attacks he may normally have. So it looks as if only one more dagger could be thrown. But that would be an extra attack at 1-4 damage. And don’t underestimate what that extra attack could do. Another 1-4. It would be extremely deadly even just adding one more throw. Specialization effects would take the normal -4 penalty down to only a -2 to hit with this fourth thrown dagger. So 4 thrown daggers = 1-4, 1-4, 1-4, 1-4 = 4 -16 damage. Not bad ahh? In fact it’s quite good. And I can’t think of another starting weapon that can deal out that kind of damage. So yes the specialization of the throwing dagger could be quite deadly to any foe you may encounter. The short sword is another good optoion - so is a heavy backup weapon as suggested by someone for larger monsters. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : Wyrmbane Date : 01-07-07 07:41 PM Thread Title : Re: Character Help The rules I'm referring to can be found in Combat Options & Tactics. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 17] Author : exorb Date : 01-07-07 09:21 PM Thread Title : Re: Character Help TY Wyrmbane. if anyone is confused as i was of what he was talking about: it's 2nd ED optional rules in a separate book: Player's Option: Combat & Tactics (Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, 2nd Edition, Rulebook/2149) (Hardcover) (http://www.amazon.com/Players-Option-Advanced-Dungeons-Rulebook/dp/0786900962) I've never looked into that book will have to check it out. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 18] Author : Mock26 Date : 01-16-07 02:23 PM Thread Title : Re: Character Help Apologize profusely to your DM! :D In my group one of the players has a dwarven fighter/locksmith (don't you dare call him a thief!) who uses paired daggers, and even though his Str. is only 18/26, his specialization and a couple of +2 daggers is a very deadly combination! He has ruined many a carefully planned combat with some good dice rolling. I don't mind as that is one of the joys of being a DM, but sometimes it can seem like this one character is about ready to singlehandedly clean out every dungeon. Still, they're a fun choice to play. Tumbling is a good skill to have with this weapon combo. Take care and have a great day.... ciao, john. PS Taking the ambidextrous proficiency will further reduce any penalties for using two weapons. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 19] Author : ZolDarklock Date : 01-30-07 01:19 AM Thread Title : Re: Character Help stick with daggers, they can be used in melee, and thrown, plus the sheer number of magical types of daggers over all other weapons makes using daggers the best way to go... if you play in the realms immediately go to the old empires region "mulhorand" and get a few "dagger of set +2" there only +2 daggers but there special makes them one of the deadliest weapons around, each round the dagger is stuck into someone after a thrown hit, it strikes on it's own, if it rolls a 19 or 20 it hits a vital organ and kills the opponent, and it requires a minimum strenght of 18 to remove it, definetly a bane to everything except the strongest of fighters, and even against them, they have to get out of combat and try removing the thing before it kills them... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:21 AM.