* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Monster Saving Throws.... Started at 01-14-07 02:20 AM by WizzyBlackmore Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=771949 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : WizzyBlackmore Date : 01-14-07 02:20 AM Thread Title : Monster Saving Throws.... how does one determine these?? Just casted a Charm person spell on 3 orcs and 4 1/2 orcs........ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Llwch Date : 01-14-07 04:53 AM Thread Title : Re: Monster Saving Throws.... how does one determine these?? Just casted a Charm person spell on 3 orcs and 4 1/2 orcs........ Your DM will have access to that information in the DMG, Monstrous Compendium or DM Screen. Specifically, Table 46 in the DMG (same one used for PCs). Note the following (quoted from the DMG): "Monsters also use Table 46. However, they do not find their saving throw numbers by group and level, since they have neither. All creatures save against poison and death magic at a level equal to the number of their Hit Dice. Intelligent monsters save versus all other attacks at this level as well. Creatures with no intelligence (even less than animal intelligence) save at a level equal to half the number of their Hit Dice. Any additions to their Hit Dice are counted as well, at the rate of one die for every four points or fraction thereof. Thus, an intelligent creature with 5 + 6 Hit Dice would save at 7th level (5 Hit Dice + another die for the 2 remaining). A non-intelligent beast of the same Hit Dice would save against all but poison and death at 4th level (round up). Most monsters use the Warrior group table to determine their save. However, those that have abilities of other classes use the most favorable saving throw. A creature able to fight and use a large number of spells could use either the Warrior or Wizard groups, whichever was better for a particular saving throw. Creatures that lack fighting ability use the group that most closely resembles their own abilities. A fungus-creature that can only cast spells would use the Wizard group table to determine saving throws." Hope this helps... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : WizzyBlackmore Date : 01-14-07 10:57 AM Thread Title : Re: Monster Saving Throws.... Thanks!!! I see it on pg. 79 DM guide 1st ed...what ed. is table 46 in? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Llwch Date : 01-14-07 12:21 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster Saving Throws.... Thanks!!! I see it on pg. 79 DM guide 1st ed...what ed. is table 46 in? 2nd Edition AD&D... You're using 1st edition? ouch... I sold my books of aeons ago - sorry man... you're on your own there (though, I suspect the monster saves are the same as in 2e, but don't quote me on that). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : WizzyBlackmore Date : 01-14-07 03:52 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster Saving Throws.... In 1st ed. basically "all monsters use the ST matrix for characters.." you turned your back on 1st ed.? damn...in looking at what 1st ed. AD&D TSR stuff goes for on Ebay I'm sitting on a fortune.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Llwch Date : 01-14-07 04:13 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster Saving Throws.... In 1st ed. basically "all monsters use the ST matrix for characters.." you turned your back on 1st ed.? damn...in looking at what 1st ed. AD&D TSR stuff goes for on Ebay I'm sitting on a fortune.... Yeah, I left 1st Ed behind me when 2e came out. There are things in 2e that I like better than 1st edition (like strength maximums that are different for men then women - as realistic as that may be in some cases, it ain't cool for women gamers), and I had thought that 2e would avoid the bookstorm that 1e was. Ooops. Slight miscalculation there. ;) However, you'd be proud of me - I didn't do 3e for long. Bought the core books, then 2 months later 3.5e came out, making my books pretty much NFG. So they went to eBay. :D If WoTC came out with a compiled hardback with the core 1e rules, I'd consider buying it (per another forum topic in this group). I've already repurchased most of the D&D BECMI rules I had back when I was a kid. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : WizzyBlackmore Date : 01-14-07 06:01 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster Saving Throws.... The Rule Cyclopedia has the D&D 1st ed. rules up until the Masters rules....I could be wrong..... being 38, I played a bit in the ealy 80's ('80-'82)....over the last 5 years started collecting 1st ed. stuff like crazy.....going through A1 right now solo....I've adopted and adapted (wow) the solo rules from 1st Ed. DMG...then modify the modules (wow again)......pretty fun..I use all vintage gear '81 battlemat, Ral Partha lead figures, cool dark swirly opaque dice that look like they could be rocks, then all the core books.......difficult to get group going these days, know many people that want to but careers, family, etc.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Llwch Date : 01-15-07 09:21 AM Thread Title : Re: Monster Saving Throws.... The Rule Cyclopedia has the D&D 1st ed. rules up until the Masters rules....I could be wrong..... being 38, I played a bit in the ealy 80's ('80-'82)....over the last 5 years started collecting 1st ed. stuff like crazy.....going through A1 right now solo....I've adopted and adapted (wow) the solo rules from 1st Ed. DMG...then modify the modules (wow again)......pretty fun..I use all vintage gear '81 battlemat, Ral Partha lead figures, cool dark swirly opaque dice that look like they could be rocks, then all the core books.......difficult to get group going these days, know many people that want to but careers, family, etc.... Just so ya know, we were referring to AD&D 1st edition, right? The D&D Rule Cyclopedia (which I have had, twice... don't ask... :P) has all the BECMI rules from the original rulebooks (with some annoying errata, I have a link I can share if anyone wants to use the errata to bring the book up to speed with the original boxed sets), though it only covers a smattering of the Immortals boxed set. When the Cyclopedia came out, there was also the "Wrath of the Immortals" boxed set, which was intended to address the "missing immortals" bits from the Cyclopedia. However, I hardly notice it being missing. Back in my BECMI D&D days, we only got as far as Companion level play before I switched to AD&D. Later on, when the rules were re-released with cardboard cutouts, I bought them, the Rule Cyclopedia and nearly the entire Gazetteer line. Kept pretty much all of it until a decade ago, and sold most of my BECMI stuff on a whim. Thankfully, through eBay, I've managed to replace part of the stuff (except the boxed sets, they were in storage at my parent's house, and were spared from being sold for that very reason). And I hear ya about getting a group going. I've been "groupless" myself since the early 90s, and have been using the occasional gaming Con or PBeM to fill the gap. Now that my kids are old enough to do gaming, they're getting into it. My wife thinks its hilarious... the geek having spawned a family of geeks. :D Be that as it may, I think we're :cool: geeks. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : WizzyBlackmore Date : 01-15-07 01:18 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster Saving Throws.... As a 4th year dental student you should see the geeks that want to play. doctors and students.... ever play solo? any tips?? so you still have 1st ed stuff? Or? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : Llwch Date : 01-15-07 02:44 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster Saving Throws.... As a 4th year dental student you should see the geeks that want to play. doctors and students.... ever play solo? any tips?? so you still have 1st ed stuff? Or? Geek or not, there is a certain inherent coolness with being a gaming geek. As for playing solo, never really found that at all enjoyable - if I wanna play a game solo, that's what computer "role"playing games are for. As for 1st Edition, if I do have anything, it's still in storage at my parents. Probably not, though, I recall selling almost all of it. Even **shudders** my T1-4, A1-4 and GDQ1-7 modules. :weep: Should have kept 'em. Great modules, and selling for a whack of money on eBay. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : WizzyBlackmore Date : 01-15-07 03:08 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster Saving Throws.... "Geek or not, there is a certain inherent coolness with being a gaming geek." couldn't agree more, I take alot of **** for being a gamer....have also the first 4 editions of Gamma World...trying to finish collecting all the mods....I have a pretty great solo system....very theraputic, glass of red, Jethro Tull, Zep, Camel or Yes.....I'm happy... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Mock26 Date : 01-16-07 02:06 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster Saving Throws.... Generally speaking, monsters should save as a fighter of the same level as the hit dice of the monster. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : jdarksong Date : 01-16-07 04:06 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster Saving Throws.... Don't have it in front of me, but didn't the AD&D MM1 have a line listed as Saves as: For instance, Saves as: P12 (12th level priest)... I could be wrong... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : Mock26 Date : 01-16-07 04:18 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster Saving Throws.... Don't have it in front of me, but didn't the AD&D MM1 have a line listed as Saves as: For instance, Saves as: P12 (12th level priest)... I could be wrong... I don't think so. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : jdarksong Date : 01-16-07 04:20 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster Saving Throws.... Maybe I'm thinking of a different book. I'll see if I can't find it when I get home. :confused: :confused: :confused: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : Llwch Date : 01-16-07 04:54 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster Saving Throws.... Don't have it in front of me, but didn't the AD&D MM1 have a line listed as Saves as: For instance, Saves as: P12 (12th level priest)... I could be wrong... You're confusing AD&D with BECMI D&D (the original Basic through Immortals rules). In BECMI D&D, all monsters are listed with a "save as" stat, including class and level that they make saving throws as. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 17] Author : jdarksong Date : 01-17-07 07:27 AM Thread Title : Re: Monster Saving Throws.... Thanks, yeah. I was thinking of my Creature Catalogue and Rules Cyclopedia. Sorry, been a while since I flipped through them. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 18] Author : Sleepwalker13666 Date : 01-17-07 03:58 PM Thread Title : Re: Monster Saving Throws.... I have multiple copies of all the first edition books. :D The half price in my city gets them quite frequently, so I've been collecting them for awhile, usually only 5.00$ a pop. Some of them have been as expensive as 12.00$, but that's rare, I did'nt even know what the Wilderness Survival Guide and Dungeoneers Survival Guide where worth until I saw them on ebay. Payed 10.00 for both in mint condition. :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:21 AM.