* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Not happy with my 2e wizard in 3x. Started at 01-24-07 04:16 PM by Jungger Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=778550 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Jungger Date : 01-24-07 04:16 PM Thread Title : Not happy with my 2e wizard in 3x. I have played D&D for 25 years or so and here are some of my beefs with playing a wizard in 3x D&D: a) When I tried to recreate my 14th Lev Wizard for 3x, I found myself needing to min/max him in term of feats, in order to have my spells actually have a chance to penetrate SR and overcome saving throws. I felt as though I could really gimp him if certain feats were not taken. b) The *damage* spells seem like a joke in comparison to how much damage the fighter/ melee classes are able to put out at the higher levels. Sometimes the damage melee’s can do is incredibly high if they crit often, which is really quite easy at upper levels. And spells can still be saved against for even less damage. c) Spells that affect a certain number of hit points like, Power Word, Kill, are less affective than I remember because creatures hit points have been jacked to compensate for the melee classes high damage output d) Lower level spells become less useful the higher level a wizard attains because they become easier to save against. This in effect limits the number of spells/ swings of the sword that a mage can use. e) Greater Dispel Magic; spells like this really bother me. In 2nd edition, Dispel Magic is 3rd level and is as effective as your mages level. Bang done. Now in 3e, they cap it. This forces higher level mages to take Greater Dispelling if they want to have any hope of dispelling magic effects. Again, all this does is take up the space of the upper level spells which seem to be even more valuable because DC saves are easier on lower level spells. f) I find him relying more on loot than on his normal abilities. For example, it seems essential that he get a +6 Int item for his spells to have effect. I just get the feeling that 3x is more about loot. Some of these points are more valid then others but these are some of the things that have come to mind. I realize that 3e is a different game but there really seems to be too many nerfs to my wizard for me to enjoy playing him. Also, because I am aware of the nerfs to wizards, I have no interest in playing one in 3e– melee all the way. The obvious solution is to go back to 2nd edition D&D which isn’t a problem but what does disappoint me is that I wanted to like 3x (and I did enjoy it at least until our group tried upper level play). So, am I missing something here? Has my wizard been nerfed to hell and back? Has anyone who has played Basic, 1e and 2e noticed this and felt the same yet still managed to be happy playing wizards in 3x? Thanks. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Arcanda Date : 01-24-07 05:14 PM Thread Title : Re: Not happy with my 2e wizard in 3x. 3.x is ugly! That's all. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Uberhamster Date : 01-24-07 05:21 PM Thread Title : Re: Not happy with my 2e wizard in 3x. So, am I missing something here? yes Has my wizard been nerfed to hell and back? no, actually the opposit, wizards has become all-powerful! try looking at the DnD bords, spellcasters has made non-spellcasters obsolete, one of the best heavy frontline fighter types (lv 20) is now a fighter 4/cleric 6/paladin 10, and so on. the optimization bord will be able to "help" you, i cant, because of how badly DnD 3.5 is designed (for uber munchkin style play) my group still play AD&D! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Zaxon D'Mir Date : 01-24-07 07:41 PM Thread Title : Re: Not happy with my 2e wizard in 3x. e) Greater Dispel Magic; spells like this really bother me. In 2nd edition, Dispel Magic is 3rd level and is as effective as your mages level. Bang done. Now in 3e, they cap it. This forces higher level mages to take Greater Dispelling if they want to have any hope of dispelling magic effects. Again, all this does is take up the space of the upper level spells which seem to be even more valuable because DC saves are easier on lower level spells. You just made me cringe. This is exactly why I ignore a LOT of 3.5e! The idea that dispel magic needs to be nerfed is ridiculous. What's next greater fireball? Approx. 50% of 3.5e is a bad joke. On another note...I thought greater dispel magic was called Mordenkainen's Disjunction? Yeah, I'm being funny. Oh yeah...and greater fireball is really meteor swarm! This is stupid, but somebody somewhere thought it was a good idea to really screw up the magic system in 3.5e. Here's what I do. I use my preference for 1e/2e to color exactly what I allow into a 3.5e game. If it was better in 1e/2e that's the way I use it! Case in point is the dispel magic spell above. I allow the 3rd level spell to operate as written in 1e/2e (the power increases with level of wizard). End of story. I've found that I've become very selective of what I allow into my games. But, it works for me. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : rigon Date : 01-24-07 11:55 PM Thread Title : Re: Not happy with my 2e wizard in 3x. Try Castles and Crusades. R- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Ateth_Istarlin Date : 01-25-07 04:48 AM Thread Title : Re: Not happy with my 2e wizard in 3x. About the only thing 3.0/3.5 did for Wizards was to give them more spells @ low levels - but they balanced this by nerfing most combat spells.:weep: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Jungger Date : 01-28-07 03:20 PM Thread Title : Re: Not happy with my 2e wizard in 3x. Try Castles and Crusades. I have been doing some research into this game and just wanted to say thanks. So far it seems like an excellent 3rd edition to the D&D that I remember instead of WotC's version and best of all is that Gygax is involved. Also, I have been doing some reading of these wizard boards and it seems that I am not the only person who believes that direct damage spells at upper level play is a problem in 3x. Anyway, just wanted to say thanks to those who responded and for the heads up on Castles and Crusades. I'll be picking up the books shortly and am looking forward to getting my wizard back! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : rigon Date : 01-28-07 08:12 PM Thread Title : Re: Not happy with my 2e wizard in 3x. I have been doing some research into this game and just wanted to say thanks. So far it seems like an excellent 3rd edition to the D&D that I remember instead of WotC's version and best of all is that Gygax is involved. Also, I have been doing some reading of these wizard boards and it seems that I am not the only person who believes that direct damage spells at upper level play is a problem in 3x. Anyway, just wanted to say thanks to those who responded and for the heads up on Castles and Crusades. I'll be picking up the books shortly and am looking forward to getting my wizard back! Your welcome and stop by the Troll Lords forums if you have any questions abou the game or just want to bounce ideas around. R- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Jolly Josh Date : 02-04-07 11:30 AM Thread Title : Re: Not happy with my 2e wizard in 3x. So, am I missing something here? Has my wizard been nerfed to hell and back? Has anyone who has played Basic, 1e and 2e noticed this and felt the same yet still managed to be happy playing wizards in 3x? Yeah, Wizards power level is only matched by a druid. My wizard has the ability to out damage the barbarian. If a melee person gets force caged or debuffed... what can they do? nothing, 3.5 wizards are extremely more flexible in every fight... flying, teleporting, invisiblity, save or dies, direct damage, polymorph for tanking or melee damage. I don't see how you can say a wizard is nerfed. They are still just as broken and fun to play as they were in 2nd edition. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:21 AM.