* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Tiefling Cleric Started at 02-23-07 02:27 AM by Morgen Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=796953 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Morgen Date : 02-23-07 02:27 AM Thread Title : Tiefling Cleric Hey all, Yeah, I know it's not an optimal build or whatever, but anyone have any tips ofr playing a cleric in 2nd edition? I've got a loose idea of an odd character. Tiefling, Merchant Kit. Succubus Mother, Paladin Father, several siblings, wife, daughter, shop, etc. I've got the stats picked out and all, but this is going to be one of my first (hopefully) real good long AD&D games and I want to help my character survive as long as possible. Any assistance would be appreciated greatly! It's Planescape's setting too. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Agathokles Date : 02-23-07 05:34 PM Thread Title : Re: Tiefling Cleric I've got the stats picked out and all, but this is going to be one of my first (hopefully) real good long AD&D games and I want to help my character survive as long as possible. Any assistance would be appreciated greatly! It's Planescape's setting too. There's a lot of advice on playing clerics in the Planescape books, especially in the Planewalker's Handbook (which also has other roleplaying and adventuring tips to offer). With your build, the most important thing seems to be the selection of the patron deity -- who gives the PC his spells? Given your choice of a Merchant kit, you should probably go for a power of trade. On Hallowed Grounds and Warriors of Heaven have a good, if small, selection, including powers of all non-evil alignments except LG. If your PC was Good, I'd choose either Hermes (CG, Olympian) or Asterius (NG, Bytopian, a power from Mystara). Another important point that might be available is the customization of your tiefling racial abilities -- since your PC is actually more directly related to a fiend than most (he should be a Cambion rather than a Tiefling, since one parent is a Tanar'ri), you could replace the standard powers with some abilities more directly related to your fiendish parent -- Planewalker's Handbook has a full list of possible powers. For example, you might retain infravision and darkenss abilities as well as cold and electricity resistances, but replace poison and fire resistance with suggestion 1/week and vampiric touch 1/week. Finally, the choice of Faction allegiance is crucial for a Planescape campaign -- not to mention the fact that a Taker merchant is not going to be the same as a Godsman merchant. While the Takers seem to be the most likely choice, especially if the PC is Chaotic, there are other factions that could be interesting for a merchant-cleric, including the Godsmen, Athar, Sensates and Indeps. Most other Factions don't seem that good for the character. If your PC is not Good you might even choose to belong to the Merkhant Sect. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Arcanda Date : 02-23-07 06:38 PM Thread Title : Re: Tiefling Cleric he should be a Cambion rather than a Tiefling, since one parent is a Tanar'riSince his father is a paladin, I assume his father is human, and his mother is Succubus... Offsprings of human male/uccubus female are alu-fiends, not tieflings! Alu fiend's sons and doughters are tieflings... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Agathokles Date : 02-24-07 04:34 AM Thread Title : Re: Tiefling Cleric Since his father is a paladin, I assume his father is human, and his mother is Succubus... Offsprings of human male/uccubus female are alu-fiends, not tieflings! Ah, yes, you're right. Cambions are offspring of female humans and tanar'ri. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Morgen Date : 02-24-07 01:58 PM Thread Title : Re: Tiefling Cleric So I need to puzzle out the location of a Planewalker's Handbook somewhere. Alright. Seems like I need a lot more then that one book as well. Excellent, I love a good challenge! And I'd be an Alu fiend and not a tiefling, is there much of a difference statistically in those two races? I was thinking of Zilchus or Joramy from the Grayhawk gods, but some of these others sound more interesting and fitting. My access to 2nd edition books has been weak at best. :( My PC is indeed Good, NG if that matters at all, but I'm in the process of switching things around so CG might work too. A good faction for the merchant cleric is a likewise good idea. And suggestions for what proficienties I should take too? I'm use to the 3.5 Knowledge/heal/etc for clerics set up but those might not be as horrifically useful for me in planescape. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Agathokles Date : 02-24-07 03:31 PM Thread Title : Re: Tiefling Cleric So I need to puzzle out the location of a Planewalker's Handbook somewhere. Alright. Seems like I need a lot more then that one book as well. Excellent, I love a good challenge! It's definitely an excellent book. You might try Paizo or RPGnow for a PDF version at a low cost. And I'd be an Alu fiend and not a tiefling, is there much of a difference statistically in those two races? Tieflings are plane-touched humanoids, Alu-fiends are lesser Tanar'ri. Moreover, they're all females, have small wings and some additional powers. They're not really a PC race, but more of a monster race. You should ask your DM on this issue -- he might either allow you to play an Alu-fiend or to have a tiefling offspring for a Succubus (there are probably weirder things around), or have your Succubus ancestor be the PC's grandma rather than his mother. I was thinking of Zilchus or Joramy from the Grayhawk gods, I suppose they are ok, but I'm not especially knowledgeable about Greyhawk. but some of these others sound more interesting and fitting. My access to 2nd edition books has been weak at best. :( Well, Hermes is just the Greek god, you don't need much help there. Asterius is somewhat similar, you may look it up in Mystara's fan website (http://www.pandius.com/asterius.html and http://www.pandius.com/aster.html) And suggestions for what proficienties I should take too? I'm use to the 3.5 Knowledge/heal/etc for clerics set up but those might not be as horrifically useful for me in planescape. The NWP system is different from the 3e skill system. Ability scores are much more important, and you get many more skills, which are usually more specialized than the 3e stuff. Also, NWP are not much related to your class, with a few exceptions. Anyway, since you'll have high Wisdom, I'd recommend Planar Sense and Planar Direction Sense (from the Planewalker's Handbook). You may also want to get hold of a couple of planar trade tongues (Planar Common and Lower Planar Trade tongue). Since you're a priest, you'll need Religion. Then, you may choose the rest of your NWPs to fit your profession and background (you might have a knowledge of trade and the lower planes, so Appraisal and Sage Knowledge for appropriate topics). Reading/Writing is always useful. These should be enough for a 1st level PC -- actually, unless you have high Intelligence, you won't be able to get all of these NWPs at the beginning, but they're also good choices later. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Morgen Date : 02-25-07 12:07 AM Thread Title : Re: Tiefling Cleric Ahhh, well that does make a difference! Okay, so his Grandmother was a Succubus, his mother was an Alu-fiend. No problems doing that seeing as we've only sort of played kind of 1 tiny adventure. As for Gods, Asterius looks to be a very fitting choice for my character. Good bit about the wealth too. Plus him being good for merchants and somewhat of a thief sounds interesting. So we're thinking some planar languages, which I didn't know where about, and Religion, Read/Write, Planar Sense, Planar Direction Sense, Appraisal, Sage skills...sounds about right. Anything else I'm not thinking about? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Agathokles Date : 02-25-07 06:51 AM Thread Title : Re: Tiefling Cleric So we're thinking some planar languages, which I didn't know where about, and Religion, Read/Write, Planar Sense, Planar Direction Sense, Appraisal, Sage skills...sounds about right. If your character is 1st level with average intelligence (9-11), you have 4 NWP slots, plus 2 languages or other Int-based NWPs and a single native language. This doesn't leave space for the Sage Knowledge, which costs 2 slots, but you'll have time at higher levels, or if your Int score is higher. Anything else I'm not thinking about? Weapon proficiencies. As a priest, your PC is only proficient with 2 weapons at first level. Since he is a Cleric, his selection is limited to blunt weapons. With only two weapons, you must try to cover both the long range and the close range. For the long range, you can choose among sling, pellet bow, staff sling and bolas. Throwing weapons such as the boomerang, club, or warhammer can also be chosen -- they have a shorter range, and you are unlikely to carry a lot of ammo, but some can be used at short range too (especially the club). For the short range, you have the choice between heavy (and slow) one handed weapons, such as footman's mace or footman's flail, large two-handed weapons (great club, maul) that do somewhat more damage, or faster weapons such as the club, bo sticks, nunchaku, and warhammer. The quarterstaff is also a fast weapon, but it is two handed. There are also some uncommon blunt weapon, such as the chain and sai, that can be appropriate for a character with an uncommon background (which means almost anyone in Planescape). Then you should throw in your PC's background and personality: since the PC is a merchant, he is probably unlikely to use threateningly large weaponry, unless he specializes in dealing with fiends and other customers where intimidation is more appropriate, and he has the Strength score to carry around such weapons. For a standard merchant, easily hidden or common weapons such as club (or staff) and sling can be perfect, while a Blood War weapon dealer might consider the chain and warhammer. For an oriental or wanderer character, pellet bow and nunchaku are a good choice. Once more, Faction choice is paramount in the Planescape campaign -- not only Factions give unusual abilities, but they also provide background information that will be useful in taking these choices (e.g., a Cipher may be more likely to choose oriental weapons or even unarmed fighting styles, while a Doomguard will be able to use a sword, and a Taker will have a larger selection of NWPs). Note that since your character worships a specific power and is NG, the Sensates and Indeps seem the most appropriate factions: Athar never worship powers, and Godsmen also have problems in this sense; Takers are too greedy and individualist to fit; most other factions require lawful (Harmonium, Guvners, and Mercykillers) or chaotic (Xaositects) alignment, or have ideals or requirements that hardly fit with a merchant's profession (Anarchists) or the philosophy of Asterius (Doomguard, Dustmen, Bleakers) -- though perhaps Ciphers and Signers could go, given their propension for mediating issues. While Godsmen cleric of specific powers take some penalties, Mystaran powers fit very well with the Believers of the Source philosophy of ascension through tests, so this could be an unusual but very interesting choice. Indeps are in control of the Great Bazaar, so they're a natural choice for a merchant -- also, their neutrality is a boon for someone who must deal with members of other factions regularly. Sensates are travellers and connoisseurs, so they are a good choice for someone who worships a power of trade, but also adventure and thievery. Also, since the Mystaran powers favor beliefs similar to those of the Godsmen, experience is important for them. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Arcanda Date : 02-25-07 09:52 AM Thread Title : Re: Tiefling Cleric And I'd be an Alu fiend and not a tiefling, is there much of a difference statistically in those two races?I suggest you to have your mother be an Alu Fiend and her's mother (your grandma) to be a Succubus (Succubi, being Tanar'ri, don't age... your grandma would be a sexy babe!). Alu Fiends are not a PC race, tieflings are. My PC is indeed Good, NG if that matters at all, but I'm in the process of switching things around so CG might work too. A good faction for the merchant cleric is a likewise good idea.I sugest you the Fated, as they are the lords of taxation and being a merchant and a cleric devoted to ome trade cult... it seems really appropriate! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : Morgen Date : 02-26-07 03:53 PM Thread Title : Re: Tiefling Cleric Hmmm if I was a cleric of Asterius, shouldn't I be able to use Daggers as a weapon? They're not the best but they double as a short range thrown weapon too, right? Indeps seem to be the faction for me. Neutrality isn't a bad thing for a cleric. Good to know that Grandma can be around too, that'll work out well! Oh, I'll help a bit. Murdo'k No'Tero Tiefling Cleric of Asterius STR 15, DEX 12, CON 14, INT 13, WIS 16, CHA 14 I've got a Planewalker's Handbook on the way. That's what has the rules for creating a more customer Tiefling. Our DM is using the Skills and Powers books as well, should I perhaps look at that as a way to improve my chances of survival as well? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : Arcanda Date : 02-27-07 03:25 AM Thread Title : Re: Tiefling Cleric Our DM is using the Skills and Powers books as well, should I perhaps look at that as a way to improve my chances of survival as well?I'm quite sure a Dragon issue speacks about S&P for planetouched PCs, but I'm orry, I don't remember issue number. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Agathokles Date : 02-27-07 09:34 AM Thread Title : Re: Tiefling Cleric Hmmm if I was a cleric of Asterius, shouldn't I be able to use Daggers as a weapon? They're not the best but they double as a short range thrown weapon too, right? Well, that's up to your DM. I would allow your PC to use daggers (that's no big balance breaker), but the power was thought for a Specialty Priest rather than a plain Cleric (it was introduced in OD&D as a Specialist Cleric and converted to AD&D Specialty Priest by the author of the above-cited article). If you're allowed to use daggers, than of course you should use them -- they are favored weapons. Indeps seem to be the faction for me. Neutrality isn't a bad thing for a cleric. Good to know that Grandma can be around too, that'll work out well! Good. Indeps have good resistances to mind control, and have good contacts in Tradegate, and can go along well with most other PCs. You only need to stay clear of the Harmonium, of course ;) Our DM is using the Skills and Powers books as well, should I perhaps look at that as a way to improve my chances of survival as well? As Arcanda said, there's an article on building Planescape PCs with PO:S&P, in DM235. Also, PO:S&P can be used to tailor a specialized priest class for Priests of Asterius, or just do minor modifications to the Cleric class to allow your PC, for example, to use daggers (costs 5 CPs and can be offset by limiting armor use to chain or lower, or restricting spell sphere access). G. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Wyrmbane Date : 02-27-07 06:43 PM Thread Title : Re: Tiefling Cleric You can play an Alu-fiend and a Cambrion. One of the few demon types that can be a PC. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:21 AM.