* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Technology in your game Started at 04-14-07 06:41 AM by True_Atlantean Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=828845 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : True_Atlantean Date : 04-14-07 06:41 AM Thread Title : Technology in your game Hey guys, Allow me to prempt any aspertion on my intentions and the comments I'll make about certain 3.5 products. It is isn't to bag them, rather to set the tone for the inquiry. I'm not here to bash 3.5 (not in this thread anyway :D ) I was discussing Eberron with a friend and made the statement that I'm simultaneously attracted and repulsed by the concept of the world, as a traditionlist as far as fantasy goes. The idea that magic is 'just another commodity" and drives technological advancement is certainly plausible and has merit, but one that I'm not inclined to run with. So, this got me thinking about the levels of tech in the average game and I was wondering what are the levels of advancement that you allow for subjects like: Medicine - thoughts on mundane surgery, anatomy and physiology, general knowledge on medical conditions... Technology: what is the most sophisticated device the PC's will witness/own? Magic: what role does magic play in your campaign and do you prefer high/low magic campaigns? What are your attitudes to magic items? Any discussion would be gratefully recieved. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : havard Date : 04-14-07 01:59 PM Thread Title : Re: Technology in your game You raise some very interesting questions! My default campaign setting is Mystara, in which the official answers vary to a great extent on where on the planet the campaign is set. However, I have made some modifications to this. Generally the tech level of the setting is comparable to Europe ca AD 1500. Gun powder is virtually unknown even in the most advanced countries. Many regions are far less developed than this however, and many range in tech/advancement between 1000-1500 AD, and some are even more primitive. There are magical centers such as Glantri and the Empire of Alphatia, countries ruled by spell-casters where magic is about as commonplace as in Ebberon, but in most other areas it is quite rare and mages are feared and respected regardless of "level". The question of whether magic should be seen as a "mere convenience" is interesting, but I would like to reverse it! Perhaps the view of technology wasn't always viewed in the way it is in our modern world? In a world where scientists are known as Alchemists and doctors are known as Healers or Herbalists, even practices that the game defines technically as non-magical, may be seen as mysterious by those who do not wield them. Furthermore, the masters of magic may be exploited this and monolpolized such lore. Healers will likely be employed by the religious orders, even if not Clerics per se. Alchemy and other mundane sciences will only be fully understood by wizards who have no interest in revealing that no all their practices are the results of spells. Etc etc. :) Havard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Agathokles Date : 04-14-07 03:32 PM Thread Title : Re: Technology in your game My default campaign setting is Mystara, in which the official answers vary to a great extent on where on the planet the campaign is set. Same here. Considering Mystara as a whole, you might range from Stone Age to future technology. The most advanced technology for your average human would be the wheellock pistol -- available only in the Savage Coast region. Gnomish technology includes zeppelins and biplanes, and dwarves are only a step or two behind gnomes (they probably could build zeppelins, and do build advanced sewage, water distribution and areation systems). In the past of Mystara, highly advanced technology was developed, so there are a number of high-technology relics around (well, two or three are known to exist), including nuclear reactors and blaster guns. The pinnacles of magical technology are the Alphatian flying man-o-wars and other skyships (at least four other nations are able to build skyships). As Havard mentioned, in Glantri and Alphatia (and possibly in Herath as well) magic is also used extensively to replace technology -- including waste disposal, city lighting systems, etc. Teleportation is common enough that most cities are shielded against it, and transportation and survival magic is developed enough to allow space travel (though this is a very recent development). Conversely, medicine seems to be developed only in places such as Glantri, where clerical magic is unavailable. In the Savage Coast, priests are able to stave off the Red Curse, in some cases keeping most of the population from being affected (which, IIRC, requires the application of a 3rd level spell every week), so mundane treatment is only needed for minor ailments that do not require the intervention of priests -- or where priests cannot cover all the needs. It is also possible that, in nations where the priesthood is less than compassionate (e.g., Hule), some medical knowledge is developed. Society is also quite advanced, including a number of semi-democratic nations -- though autocratic or oligarchic states are much more common. Darokin is a plutocratic republic -- pretty modern, and the dwarven government is a constitutional monarchy with clans being almost political parties. A couple of empires (Thyatis, Milenia) also have mixed governments, with an elected or hereditary monarch and an elected senate sharing power. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Arcanda Date : 04-16-07 05:31 PM Thread Title : Re: Technology in your game I quote all the Mystaran stuff from my 2 mates havard and Agathokles. But I'm planning to play, ometime far in the future, a no magic at all campaign. In real world, in a crusader campaign, in AD 1100 or so. PC allowable: only fighters, thieves, spell-less clerics, knights, archers and, maybe, few others. No magical special ability will work. Paladins will be unable to cast clerical spells at a certain level. Rangers too. Bards will be allowable, but only certain kit and without spells (of course). No magical weapons, but a weapon of quality will be allowable. No true alchemical formula, but cartographers and blacksmiths are OK. I think it will be a great challenge, for players and DM alike! Of course: only allowable PC race will be.... human! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : emeriliath Date : 04-16-07 08:49 PM Thread Title : Re: Technology in your game Arcanda, Sounds interesting. Let us know how it goes when you start! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Arcanda Date : 04-19-07 05:30 PM Thread Title : Re: Technology in your game I project to base my game in AD&D 2ed, with some idea from 1ed (such as chacacters as Archer from Dragon Magazine and Cavalier from Unearthed Arcana), but using also the Kit system of The Complete Class Handbooks of 2ed. Just not to give players only Fighter and Thief to choose from. Kits will be from Complete Fighters Handbook, Complete Thief Handbook and HR7 The Crusades. I'll also permit PC such as Blacksmith, Healer or Cartographer from Sages and Specialists (but I think not many players will be interested). I live in Rome, Pope's city, and I think PCs will be of Italian origin, maybe from Rome, but also Venice, Pisa, Genoa, Amalfi, Sicily, Florence or some other interesting place would be allowable. Military orders of Temple and St John were enstablished around 1118, so I'll play later, just to allow a Monastic Warrior kit to players. If I'll ever play it, I'll let you know. Now I'm playing the high magic campaign of fairytales. PCs are Puss in Boot and the Miller's Son! ;-) Magic level is very high. Technology level is... absent! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : True_Atlantean Date : 05-01-07 08:13 AM Thread Title : Re: Technology in your game In particular, I was thinking about the knowledge of anatomy and physiology. In a setting where magic re-knits bones and brings people back from the dead, the apothecary, physican and chiurgeon are downplayed. I was looking at one of my NPC's, a necromancer by trade, and decorating his abode with sketchbooks of musculature and the like. I believe he'd have adequate chance to study the human (or demi-human) body and create a treatise on the subject. Obviously for an example this specific, it's really up to me; but in general, how does the magic of healing impact such disciplines in your games? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : havard Date : 05-01-07 12:54 PM Thread Title : Re: Technology in your game In particular, I was thinking about the knowledge of anatomy and physiology. In a setting where magic re-knits bones and brings people back from the dead, the apothecary, physican and chiurgeon are downplayed. I was looking at one of my NPC's, a necromancer by trade, and decorating his abode with sketchbooks of musculature and the like. I believe he'd have adequate chance to study the human (or demi-human) body and create a treatise on the subject. Obviously for an example this specific, it's really up to me; but in general, how does the magic of healing impact such disciplines in your games? Good questions! I'm thinking such knowledges are mostly developed by the spell casters. Mainly Clerics, but also some mages, like Necromancers will have alot of knowlegde in those fields. Mages aren't as big on sharing knowledge as Clerics (who at least share with fellow Clerics). SpellCasters don't like spending magical energy when it isn't absolutely required though, so old fashioned medicine is still widespread. I'd allow such characters to possess knowledge of say anatomy at a more advanced level than at a comparable historical period. Ofcourse, not everyone will be able to afford seeing a spellcaster for their troubles. There will be plenty of quacks out there and the huddled masses will be riddled with ignorance and superstition. Havard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : khyron1144 Date : 05-03-07 12:52 AM Thread Title : Re: Technology in your game The default assumption of my campaign world (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?24955) is that through some combination of actual technological progress and magic as technology progress, life in the big city is as comfortable as it is today. That is to say, you might get your throat slit by unsavory characters, but food comes from a store, water arrives at your house, and some of the better sections of town have lighted streets at night. Those doing the farming to make food arrive at the stores still live the backward and miserable life of medieval peasants, as do those living in the wild places far from the bastions of civilization. Although I haven't come right out and said so up until this point. My feelings on magic items: it's better to play it kind of 1e/2e style where most magic items have already been created by someone else and you hope to win them in battle, not make them yourself. Some things, though, would be reasonably common, such as Continual Lighted objects and Continual Darkness objects. There's probably a former adventuring wizard or two in every major city who got as far as third level (ability to cast second level spells) and learned one or both of the continual spells, which he casts on stuff to make an easy living. The most technologically advanced thing people will see is a movable type printing press, or more likely, the pamphlets created on one by would be revolutionaries. Another innovation is the democratic republic form of government that may be getting a start some places in the last four years. Meidcine: Miasma theory. Bleedings. Some knowledge of effective herbalism (epecially among the Barbarians and Elves) and poisons (especially among the Halfling Yakuza). Some knowledge of anatomy (mostly artists and necromancers). The general role of magic is to replace technology in civilized areas. Wizards with Message form something like a telephone network. Wizards with Copy replace Kinkos. Someone with Horseshoes of the Zephyr starts a Fed-Ex equivalent. Magic is higher than normal for a 2e environment in terms of spellcaster presence but still reasonably low in terms of magic item availability. There is a whole country run by wizards with the great magical university's faculty acting as a government for the country. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:21 AM.