* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine Started at 04-19-07 08:16 PM by Zaxon D'Mir Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=832456 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Zaxon D'Mir Date : 04-19-07 08:16 PM Thread Title : Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine For those of you who don't know Paizo has pulled the plug of both Dragon and Dungeon magazines. So, I thought maybe some of us old timers could remember back to some of our earliest experiences with D&D and how a copy of Dragon at the gaming table meant you were a serious gamer. I remember back in '91 I used new spells from Pages of the Mages to quickly turn the tables on my group as they came into a lich's lair. Oh my, what good times I had with that magazine. I used a lot of the BECMI articles to help flesh out a campaign world in the early '90s. Dragons ascending to immortal status, what dragons ruled over other dragons in Mystara and the Dark Sun undead articles were all classics that showed up in some fashion in my games. Oh, and let's not forget the forum letters. Some of those guys had excellent ideas for campaigns or uses for obscure spells. I haven't purchased an issue of Dragon in probably three years because I really disliked how 3.5 changed the format - way too much info on NPCs and their PrCs. An NPC stat block is like a chapter out of a Cliff's Notes. But even now I'll miss it more because as an institution in the D&D universe it is gone for good. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : realmaster Date : 04-20-07 02:29 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine Paizo has pulled the plug of both Dragon and Dungeon magazines WOTC is pulling the plug. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Zaxon D'Mir Date : 04-20-07 07:56 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine WOTC is pulling the plug. My bad! :eek: Now how 'bout a memory or two. The point of the post is to share memories not revel in my ignorance. :P -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : WizO_Paradox Date : 04-20-07 09:02 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine Another correction- from all appearances, BOTH companies made the decision. I could be wrong as I have no inside information. And WotC did not "pull the plug", the decision between the two companies was that the license would not be renewed. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : havard Date : 04-20-07 09:15 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine Another correction- from all appearances, BOTH companies made the decision. I could be wrong as I have no inside information. And WotC did not "pull the plug", the decision between the two companies was that the license would not be renewed. From: http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/dungeon/generalDiscussion/stunnedSpeechless Paizo has licensed the right to publish Dragon and Dungeon from Wizards of the Coast since 2002. The decision whether or not to renew that license did not rest with Paizo. We're doing our best to offer similar content to our existing customers in a variety of ways, including Pathfinder and the new GameMastery Modules series. We hope you'll give them a look, but continuing to publish Dragon and Dungeon was not an option available to Paizo. My impression is that Paizo would have liked to continue publishing the mags and Erik has also stated that the mags were doing well, so I can see no reason why they would not. Havard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : WizO_Paradox Date : 04-20-07 09:18 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine Thanks! With so much I've been reading, I don't know how I missed that. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : havard Date : 04-20-07 09:58 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine Thanks! With so much I've been reading, I don't know how I missed that. No problem :) Havard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Vrykolas2k Date : 04-20-07 11:45 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine I liked Dragon magazine when they still had articles for games other than AD&D, and when their articles for AD&D were entertaining and useful... and not set up for yet more munchkinnery. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : havard Date : 04-20-07 11:59 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine Voyage of the Princess Ark. As good as it gets... :) Havard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : Regularguy Date : 04-20-07 10:31 PM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine I'd found it pretty good, but became a die-hard enthusiast after the article on the piao shih. It was like the thinking man's Fighter, back in 1E: the experienced planner who rigorously familiarizes himself with his surroundings to counter what he sensibly anticipates, the veteran field commander who excels at bargaining out a rough truce (and maybe even an exchange of information and favors) just so long as his whole party is anywhere near competitive with the opposition -- and all while finally answering the question of just who the heck builds all those traps that nail thieves, and who prepares those workmanlike antidotes to the poisons used by assassins: namely, the guy perceptive enough to see through an assassin's disguise, and to detect poisons in the first place. Oh, he could pull his weight in a straight fight, sure; he took a hit on sheer toughness, but made up for it with a little extra accuracy when it counted. But the role-playing emphasis was on playing defense: scoring points by trying to head off problems, genuinely not caring whether the opposition lives or dies or even turns a profit off the encounter -- because what matters is just clearing the way for his allies. I read that and thought, dang, this just changed my whole idea of what the game could be. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : WizO_Paradox Date : 04-21-07 03:03 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine I didn't like all the short stories, but a couple of them really stood out. Dragon Meat is one of my favorites. The other... Drat... don't recall the title, but it's the one everyone talks about- the Online game before there were online games where the female protaganist found a magic teleporting ring online and gave it to another player... And I'll miss my monthly Dragon Hunts. I'd have to hit various stores each month to see which one got the issue in first. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : sgt_d Date : 04-22-07 10:52 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine Wow, I'm rather stunned. I'll be honest, I haven't picked up a copy of Dragon since 1994, but I really enjoyed the magazine. It had some great short stories, and always had some good BG info for most/all of the campaign worlds that TSR had going at the time. And, of course, my favorite section, the comics! Who knows? Maybe WotC will self-publish the magazine again, or give the license to someone else... (here's hoping!) Beers to Dragon & Dungeon! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : delroland Date : 04-22-07 11:52 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine I remember the old wacky non-DnD minigames they would post in the magazine, like Claydonia: the make-your-own-monster-out-of-clay, destroy-the-other-clay-monsters "miniatures" game. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : longlivelavey Date : 04-22-07 06:12 PM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine I would like to see a new version of the "Dragon Magazine Archive" released. This one would be on DVD media, would contain every issue of "Dragon" magazine (including "Strategic Review"), it would use Adobe Acrobat as a viewer, and would contain every "Dungeon" magazine issue also. This one could be called "The Dragon and Dungeon Ultimate Archive". longlivelavey -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : jimpaladin Date : 04-22-07 06:45 PM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine Without sounding too maudlin:rolleyes: I miss the idea that you could take something from an article and make it your own. Granted the messageboards let us do that now but back in the 30-40 and Best of Dragon Vol III a busy Marine with only weekend leave ate the stuff up Saturday morning when off base. The other times we spend(as all of us have)the whole weekend in a barracks with other Marines(some drunk) telling us to shut up and go to sleep. Breaking for Breakfast, lunch and dinner was the only time that we didn't also play(thank God for delivery on base:D ) The artwork was also the greatest. My greatest piece of artwork that I love to this day and play my Dragons this way is: Party of beat up pc's holding up the prize of a lifetime roped over a tree limb a 4' Dragon that obviously got the best of them before some lucky RP:P Ed Greenwoods Nine Hells article also:weep: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : Bacchus2530 Date : 04-22-07 09:03 PM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine I remember in the 80's going to the hobby shop to pick up the newest edition. My friends and I would sit around reading the latest character and monster descriptions. Laughing over the comics and hoping we'd be as good as the people in the magazine. I also like the idea of an entire archive of Dragon. Especially if it is searchable.:weep: Long live Snarfquest! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 17] Author : spyone Date : 04-23-07 12:38 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine What's New with Phil and Dixie is what I remember whan I think of Dragon. ( www.philanddixie.com ) I have found a lot of the articles that they ran for Star Frontiers are available on fan sites in PDF form, and a lot of them had good ideas and were useful in other SF games. (Sigh. I miss Star Frontiers, too. First game I ever GMed.) I do see the logic of moving to "delivering content online", as the marketing wonks put it, but I also thought there was a certain cache in being able to say you owned "the oldest continually published gaming magazine in the world". I guess not. There were always complaints that The Dragon was just a TSR "house organ", shilling for the company that published it and only offering token support for other systems, but I do not know of a single successful gaming magazine that was not a "house organ": Challenge was GDW's, White Dwarf was GW's, Pyramid was Steve Jackson Games', even Strategy&Tactics was SPI's. I'm sure there are some I'm forgetting. The point is, I think TSR had a better claim on needing a "house organ" magazine than most, since it had to support not just D&D but also Star Frontiers, Gamma World, Top Secret, Marvel Super Heroes, the Indiana Jones RPG and others. And still, Dragon offered better coverage of - and material for - other people's games than any magazine on that list except Challenge, and I suspect Challenge only gave so many pages to support of other companies games because GDW had so few of their own (Traveller, Twilight 2000, Dark Conspiracy, and Cadillacs&Dinosaurs were it for their RPGs, IIRC). Sorry. Rambling. This trip down memory lane brought to you by the cancelation of Dragon magazine, formerly known as The Dragon and once dearly loved by me, though I probably haven't bought an issue since Second Edition came out and it became clear that the vast majority of their D&D articles would be supporting the 2.0 rules instead of the original system. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 18] Author : True_Atlantean Date : 04-23-07 06:47 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine I was completely stunned when I read the entry. To me, it didn't matter what edition of AD&D/D&D I was playing, Dragon was there to support the game. I haven't collected Dungeon that much as I prefer the modules or my own campaigns. My earliest memories were trying to get through all the information after my first couple of years of mags started to add up. I've been collecting since 1993, and with about a year or so after third ed came out, I've got an unbroken line. One of the things that I have been working on has been a unified index of articles, and now that the mag has effectively ended, I think I'll restart my efforts. The Wizards Three was always a favourite, with Voyage of the Princess Ark, Bazaar of the Bizarre and the Ecologies being constant favourites. I remember, as a teen in the early nineties and relatively new to the hobby, added the creature of the month to any campaign I was running. My players, who never read Dragon, were always amazed at the amount that I knew about the monsters and the uses for their parts (pelts, organs and the like). I also remember re-writing the spells from the magazines so that I could give out 'scrolls' as part of treasure. They always went down very well. I am disappointed that one of the reasons cited was to move the magazine to the online environment. I am, perhaps, a little too traditional in the fact that I have always prefered printed materials. If I get a .pdf, I'll print it out and read it at my leisure later. It is probably something that WotC's Marketing looked at, but I'd still like my printed magazine. Lastly, I'm interested to see how Pathfinder works out. At US$19.99 an issue (each month) it is a bit more expensive than my committment at the moment, so it had better be good. It is my complete in Erik Mona's ability that I'll order issue #1 and go from there. I believe that Paizo has done fantastic things with the magazine and I'm sorry to see them go, no matter how amicable the break is. Lots of good memories, I'll miss my monthly fix. We can now say that we have seen the end of an era. Looking forward to sharing some more. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 19] Author : havard Date : 04-23-07 07:24 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine Lastly, I'm interested to see how Pathfinder works out. At US$19.99 an issue (each month) it is a bit more expensive than my committment at the moment, so it had better be good. It is my complete in Erik Mona's ability that I'll order issue #1 and go from there. I believe that Paizo has done fantastic things with the magazine and I'm sorry to see them go, no matter how amicable the break is. The fact that the quality of print will be higher and that you get a free pdf included in the price should be a good argument for buying the magazine. I'll definately consider getting it, though I will miss the Campaign Classics type articles and the revisiting of old school modules in Dungeon.... And I guess my hopes of seeing more Voyage of the Princess Ark articles didn't improve with this change... Havard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 20] Author : lachapakhan Date : 04-23-07 12:10 PM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine whomever it was that pulled the plug, i'm ****** at them. i've been a subscriber for more than a hundred issues and i just renewed my subscription for two more years ... i loved that magazine and trying to fob us off onto online content bites the big one. the internet will never compare to a magazine in hand. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 21] Author : cskolos Date : 04-24-07 01:00 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine I have subscribed for over 3 years to both Dragon and Dungeon magazines, and right now I am in shock that my next year of just renewed Dragon and Dungeon magazines subscriptions will not be completed in full. I am is shock. I have no idea what has just happened. It does not make sense to me at this time. Why? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 22] Author : havard Date : 04-24-07 02:14 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine And now Dragonlance: http://www.dragonlance.com/features/articles/10040.aspx Wonder what WotC is up to? Havard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 23] Author : OGAM_engineer Date : 04-24-07 06:45 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine The hinted reason for the MWP thing is their inability to consistantly produce product. Still, the timing looks and smells fishy. Oggie -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 24] Author : sgt_d Date : 04-24-07 07:28 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine Hmmm... Is my memory fuzzy, or did they also pull the license on Ravenloft earlier (within the past year or so)? Maybe they want to get all their ducks back in the WotC row, so to speak. Maybe they're going to start/restart many of the old gameworlds we hold dear (hoping for a full restart to Greyhawk & Mystara). Maybe I'm reading WAY too much into this!:P -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 25] Author : True_Atlantean Date : 04-24-07 08:01 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine If I recall, the Ravenloft license wasn't renewed with White Wolf, but given what WW did with the setting, that isn't a bad thing. However, the very thought that Margaret Weis needs a license agreement to produce DL priducts... I knew the deal as I visit the Nexus often and listen to the podcast (I can highly recommend it). I had an 'evil take over the industry" idea a little while back and it may be food for thought. Wizards produces 3.0/3.5 and allows the OGL to thrive. Suddenly entire companies spring forth to produce D20 supplements. Then they announce a 4th edition. I believe the OGL only applies to 3.0/3.5 and so the entire product lines for these companies need to be renegotiated for the new edition. Paranoid, unsubstantiated ramblings though..... However, with DL, Ravenloft, Dragon and Dungeon being reeled in, one has to wonder why they are closing ranks. Interesting times ahead. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 26] Author : Zaxon D'Mir Date : 04-24-07 05:55 PM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine To kind of hijack my own thread here...Didn't WOTC have to renegotiate with Ed Greenwood for Forgotten Realms? Something to the effect that his deal with TSR was only with TSR and if they folded or were bought all rights reverted back to him? Did I dream this or something? Anyway this is getting kinda creepy guys. First Dragon/Dungeon goes and now Dragonlance. Something's afoot here my dear Watson. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 27] Author : spyone Date : 04-24-07 07:52 PM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine I have subscribed for over 3 years to both Dragon and Dungeon magazines, and right now I am in shock that my next year of just renewed Dragon and Dungeon magazines subscriptions will not be completed in full. I am is shock. I have no idea what has just happened. It does not make sense to me at this time. Why? Well, this may provide some answers, though not all of them: www.costik.com You see, almost every magazine in the country can declare bankruptcy tomorrow, if it wants to, because every magazine in the country has enormous liabilities: the obligation to provide issues to its subscribers. The subscription money came in long ago, and has been spent, and that liability remains. Magazines continue, and make money, because they sell advertising, and expect their subscribers to resubscribe. That was from an article on the death of SPI, specificly from a section on why TSR, when it aquired SPI's assets, closed Strategy&Tactics rather than continuing it: the money was gone, and fulfilling the subscriptions would have cost money. Mr. Costikyan contends that this was a very poor business move on TSR's part, because it left the approximately 30,000 subscribers to S&T angry at TSR, and they represented the bulk of the dedicated wargamers out there. Anyway, ironicly your subscriptions, especially long-term subscriptions, make it more attractive to close the magazine (from a business standpoint). Except for that ****ing-off your consumers point, which previously made TSR's wargames into dismal failures because so much of the potential market for them refused to buy anything from TSR. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 28] Author : True_Atlantean Date : 04-25-07 06:46 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine To kind of hijack my own thread here...Didn't WOTC have to renegotiate with Ed Greenwood for Forgotten Realms? Something to the effect that his deal with TSR was only with TSR and if they folded or were bought all rights reverted back to him? Did I dream this or something? Anyway this is getting kinda creepy guys. First Dragon/Dungeon goes and now Dragonlance. Something's afoot here my dear Watson. I do recall hearing this in the change-over to 3.x. However, negotiations had to occur between TSR and Gary Gygax regarding Greyhawk. I don't know how much is urban legend though. I definately think something is up. It is either going to be really exciting or something is about to go horribly wrong. I hope that this means that there is some level of support coming for these game systems that is worthy. MWP have done great things for the Dragonlance line and I hope that WotC can deliver the same quality and dedication to the fans. One marketing idea that I have seen that is interesting came from White Wolf. They have been busily converting the old World of Darkness games to the new system. One such game is Changeling. Knowing full well that they couldn't produce an ongoing game complete with full supplement support that would be a long term project, they approached it a different way. They will release the main rulebook for the new Changeling, as well as a packed printing schedule for one year. After that, there is no more. A self-contained game with finite resources with an agreed-upon termination date. How neat would it be if WotC adopted a same policy for out-of-print systems like Mystara, Spelljammer, and the like? More food for thought.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 29] Author : Horemheb442 Date : 04-26-07 03:10 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine It may just be that the advertising has dried up. I haven't bought a Dragon or Dungeon magazine new since 3rd ed came out, but I used to work for a magazine subscription fulfillment house several years ago. We had many magazines, 150 or 200 among them a biking magazine. We knew many, if not most of the magazines earned their money by the advertizing, not the subscriptions, but the numbers of readers was how they sold advertizing. I started getting call after call about getting invoices for the biking magazine with the supposed buyer either being dead or an invalid. I was able to trace them all down to a magazine agency, but upon digging further, I found out it was the magazine itself, posting bogus subscriptions to boost their circulation numbers. They were more than willing to give away a few issues to be able to charge more for the ads that really paid for the magazine. If they are shutting down entirly, it could be the advertizing doesn't pay the bills any more. I don't discount some of the other alterior motives, but it is just a thought. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 30] Author : smashmode Date : 04-29-07 11:32 PM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine Now how 'bout a memory or two. One word: Snarfquest Thankfully I have the Dragon Archive CD-ROm issues 1-250 on 5 cd-roms. Good stuff :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 31] Author : True_Atlantean Date : 05-01-07 07:56 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine Hey guys, I may be able to shed a small continual light on the issue at hand. I was listening to the Dragonlance Canticle(Episode 4) today and they had news on the ceasation of the DL licensing and some thoughts about the Paizo and Code Monkey license cancellations as well. Apparently the new brand manager at WotC is an ex-Coca-Cola marketing manager (or similar title) and has been looking at the branding of the D&D product and how to strengthen it. One method that is used is that if the core product is being outshone by alternative products that a company owns, the 'other products' are reigned in so that a consolidated approach to marketing can be undertaken (sounds like common sense to me). When the OGL was first announced, WotC imagined that companies would produce bestiaries and modules, not whole campaign settings or re-work the D20 system (al a Castles and Crusades or True 20). That companies would do this, and make it profitable, was a bit of a shock to them. Now, many years on, the OGL products have improved dramatically in quality and many are able to hold their own. In this environment, it is untenable to have licensed products competing against your own core products. Hence, the licenses are being drawn back into the fold. If this means that WotC is going to take a concentrated approach to product marketing and will have a clear direction for many of the older, established settings, then we, the fans, are the winners. Although I seem to recall that "May you live in interesting times" was both a blessing and a curse…. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 32] Author : khyron1144 Date : 05-03-07 03:14 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine One of my earliest and fondest memories relating to Dragon is going to a garage sale put on by relatives and being offered a box of RPG stuff and (now that I think of it, the adverb I'd use in regards to my action is foolishly) mostly turning it down, but taking an armful of Dragons. These were 1e era issues. They were pretty cool. They included #75 (the first part of the Nine Hells special two-parter), plus whatever issues from around then featured the Duelist and Smith NPC classes. Plus issues containing the earliest Ecology Of articles. Plus a Marvel-Phile/ Ares section here and there. The next memory is the first newstand issue that my dad bought for me #200. I got it just as I was moving into the the house that was my home from the second semester of sixth grade thorugh my failed attempt at a year in college. That hologram on the cover was really something. I've read that issue more or less to pieces by now. That expanded familiars tabel is something that I'm really going to have to use one of these days. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 33] Author : Gift_of_Fury Date : 05-05-07 09:37 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine I remember the first time I laid my eyes on a Dungeon and Dragon mag, it was way back in 1985, I was 12 years old at the time (smiles & sighs) My dad took me to Westfield’s shopping mall in my home town of Liverpool (Australia) Dad was busy looking for a gift for his friend so we went to this really cool store called Games R Us, you know the type, filled with funny looking BBQ aprons, cool board games and some other crazy 80s nick knacks, anyways as Dad was talking to the shop clerk I ventured deeper within the store, something had attracted my attention, I was not sure what it was but it looked interesting. As I made my way to the very back of the store I found myself gazing near awe struck at a "life size" cut out of a Skeleton wielding a huge axe! As I drew my attention away from the fell creature I noticed that I had stumbled upon an entire corner of the store dedicated to D&D, there was this big shelf which contained all the old basic boxed sets and an assortment of other great books but what really got me was the two racks of Dungeon and Dragon Magazines! I marvelled at the covers, my imagination racing with a thousand thoughts as to what lay within those many enigmatic pages heh, I still remember the first Dragon mag I picked of that rack, Issue 93 Jan 1985, the cover had this great painting of a Weretiger transforming as a huge Tiger watches guard over her!!! These two magazines have stood the test of time where other gaming mags have failed so long ago, they are as far as I’m concerned an intricate part of the entire D&D genre, a part which I feel brings both the designers and players (all huge fans) of the game together. News of there conclusion saddens me. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 34] Author : khyron1144 Date : 05-07-07 06:54 PM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine I marvelled at the covers, my imagination racing with a thousand thoughts as to what lay within those many enigmatic pages heh, I still remember the first Dragon mag I picked of that rack, Issue 93 Jan 1985, the cover had this great painting of a Weretiger transforming as a huge Tiger watches guard over her!!! I remember that one. It's one of the ones I got from my Uncle. Wow. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 35] Author : spear_1021 Date : 05-11-07 10:49 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine I would like to see a new version of the "Dragon Magazine Archive" released. This one would be on DVD media, would contain every issue of "Dragon" magazine (including "Strategic Review"), it would use Adobe Acrobat as a viewer, and would contain every "Dungeon" magazine issue also. This one could be called "The Dragon and Dungeon Ultimate Archive". longlivelavey This would be an excellent idea. It would be definately save me a lot of space. And if it had a good serch feature or index it would save me hours when I want to look up one article. :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 36] Author : Hidden Date : 05-12-07 03:46 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine I loved reading Floyd (http://nodwick.humor.gamespy.com/floyd/floydwelcome.html) and the Dragon Mirth Comics, and I'll never forget Bazaar of the Bizarre... I carried issue 246 with me to every game for a year for the Cauldron Of The Magi and Jan Jo's Tea Kettle (guaranteed to cure lycanthropy.... One way or another...). I always enjoyed reading Dungeon in corner of my local library, and when I was a kid nothing fought off the boredom of a long car ride better than a good issue of Dragon. I wonder how a digital magazine is supposed to compete with the portability of a printed magazine... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 37] Author : Bedlamtom Date : 05-18-07 05:32 PM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine Oh gods what do I remember fondly about dragon magazines? I remember the Niall of the far travels stories. They sparked my young imagination. I never understood why there weren't more of them. I remember Phinious Fingers, Fred, and Charly. Still one of the funniest gaming comic strips ever! Wish I knew where my book of that went to. I loved the bazaar of the bizzare articles The cardboard deck of many things Giants in the Playground? I think that was the name of the column. They took literary heroes and mashed them into dnd stats. It was possible to see if Gandalf could beat Merlin in a heads up fight. So many fond memories. Sigh I'll miss it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 38] Author : Hoojib Date : 05-19-07 02:39 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine "Wormy" & "What's New" -- I remember reading those comics on the bus in the early morning, on the way to school. Probably about 9th grade. I'm 36 now. I wonder how many 9th graders are starting to play D&D now? A depressing thought. I also remember being very entertained by the April spoof issues. I don;t find that stuff as funny now, but back then it was a riot. My favorite adventure (from early Dragon) was Chagmat -- sort of a different take on evil spiders, no Drow or Arieana to be seen anywhere. I played that one with 3 different groups. "Citadel by the Sea" was good too (at least, I think that was the name.) The first miniature I ever got was from a cut-out offer from the pages of Dragon, from Grenadier Miniatures. It had a picture of a miniaturte of a dwarf archer in a big hatm though that was not them miniature I ended up getting... it was a goblin, and a catalog came with it. Well-done, Grenadier; your plan worked. I was hooked, and now own thousands of them. Literally thousands of miniatures, all from a little 'free miniature' offer. I'm going to miss those magazines. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 39] Author : tankschmidt Date : 05-24-07 10:16 AM Thread Title : Re: Fond Memories of Dragon Magazine I miss every Halloween issue and every April Fool's issue. I used so much of that material. The highlight of the magazine for me, though, was the comics. KoDT is still the funniest thing on either side of a Hackmaster Shield. I think my favorite strip was Yamara. Some might argue that the racial make-up of Ogrek the Undisciplined paved the way for 3rd edition. Hah! :rolleyes: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:21 AM.