So what are the chances of a 3e mystara?
If there is one coming when will we see it?
So far, they managed to licensed out Ravenloft, Gamma World, and Dragonlance (Wizards will publish the campaign sourcebook, Sovereign Press will publish DL) support products).
One can hope a publisher who may also be a fan of Mystara/Known World would rise up and take that risky business investment.
I don't know if that's a good thing or not...
Don't turn it into another Hackmaster parody.
Plus I have read the newRavenloft book and have found it inferior to the old 2e idea. So yes I do believe the term "effectivly killing" fits in this case.
Originally posted by Plunderer_of_the_planes
I know alot of other fansites, like those dedicated to Birthright and Planescape, have been doing their own conversions since wizards is effectivly killing the old settings.
So what are the chances of a 3e mystara?
If there is one coming when will we see it?
there's a major, consistent, fan baed effort in that regard at http://mystara3e.starflung.com/home.html
Originally posted by Ranger REG
Then I suggest you consult with Kenzer & Co. for doing right by the true Mystara fans:
Don't turn it into another Hackmaster parody.
James Mishler the person who's doing it has been an active member of the Mystara net community for ages, and will hopefully not do too bad a job of things. But as was pointed out in another post earlier a lot of Mystara is about the setting as opposed to the rules so as long as the initial release keeps that in mind and focuses on the setting (and for old hands at the world perhaps even builds on that) then that should hopefully be all good.
Originally posted by samsael
Actually, the rights to Mystara have already been sold to KenzerCo as the new Hackmaster setting.
I don't know if that's a good thing or not...
I think that having them hand over Mystara to Kenzer & co/Hackmaster, was the biggest slight in a long line of WotC slights. WotC knows (better than anyone) K&C's penchant for humor and silliness and to have them "dump" Mystara into the farciful hands of K&C showed an irreverence towards the games past...better it had been left a "dead" setting than turned into a joke.
The only problem I have is it is like some of the other "unofficial" versions as it is not readily downloadable. Lets just hope th efix that soon.
by the way if you haven't caught it the link is:
http://mystara3e.starflung.com/home.htm
Addendum: so far i have gotten the Mystara info off wotc's site but it is incompleate at best but it is convertable....
Originally posted by skathros
I think that having them hand over Mystara to Kenzer & co/Hackmaster, was the biggest slight in a long line of WotC slights. WotC knows (better than anyone) K&C's penchant for humor and silliness and to have them "dump" Mystara into the farciful hands of K&C showed an irreverence towards the games past...better it had been left a "dead" setting than turned into a joke.
K&C have often stated that they have a "license" to use the old stuff - they do not own them. I'm sure if someone approached WotC with enough cash and/or a good idea, they'd gladly loan out Mystara for a 3rd edition conversion, like they did with White WOlf and Ravenloft.
-Oz
Originally posted by skathros
I think that having them hand over Mystara to Kenzer & co/Hackmaster, was the biggest slight in a long line of WotC slights. WotC knows (better than anyone) K&C's penchant for humor and silliness and to have them "dump" Mystara into the farciful hands of K&C showed an irreverence towards the games past...better it had been left a "dead" setting than turned into a joke.
I don't know any of the particulars of what's coming out but I have enough confidence in James's work over the years that I pre-ordered Mystaros. Hopefully I won't be too dissapointed.
www.dnd.starflung.com
At the search engine, enter "Mischler" and plenty of things will come up.
Personally, I'm not always impressed with his take on things (I'm completely underwhelmed by his list of Thyatian Emperors, to take one example), but that's a matter of preferences and aesthetics. I will say that if you're afraid that he lacks affection for the setting or will be inappropriately silly (Now, guys, c'mon: there was some silliness in some of the old D&D Mystara products, you know; remember "Top Ballista"?), I don't think you should worry too much.
I would expect that anything he has a hand in writing will be lighthearted only where Mystara fans expect lightheartedness, and serious in areas where seriousness is called for.
As for TSR slights, in many ways the best thing they can do for "old" fans such as myself and such as it seems Skathros is, is leave a world alone. By this point, we've all developed our own particular impressions of a gameworld and anything that might be done would "ruin" it in that sense.
(Even worse than doing nothing with a world tends to be leaving it in the hands of fans, I've come to believe. In order to avoid sensitivities I'll take a non-Mystara example; the 3E BR rules written by fans have numerous interesting and creative things, but also major howlers, stuff stuffed in by interest groups the *ahem* elves-above-all-faction; and galleons and caravels and the like were given rams, which is an absurdity of naval architecture. So I have a sudden newfound respect for actual game designers that I lacked before).
However, all of us with settled (crochety) views of what Mystara is like will probably have to eat a couple things we don't like in anything published for it now (that's whether it's done by Kenzer, by fans, or by TSR itself - er, Wizadz itself). The only way to keep the world vital, appeal to a fresh audience, and even maintain a community of Mystaraphiles is new stuff.
Anyhow, I'm babbling; the main point of my post here is that I would encourage folks to go check out the stuff that Mischler has posted up at www.dnd.starflung.com before concluding that he's going to turn the setting into a joke or want to slight it.
Originally posted by Plunderer_of_the_planes
These guys have no taste.
Well, they have a taste in parody.
I just don't want Mystara to turn into a HM parody of D&D/Rolemaster game.
Originally posted by Porphyrogenitus
However, all of us with settled (crochety) views of what Mystara is like will probably have to eat a couple things we don't like in anything published for it now (that's whether it's done by Kenzer, by fans, or by TSR itself - er, Wizadz itself). The only way to keep the world vital, appeal to a fresh audience, and even maintain a community of Mystaraphiles is new stuff.
.
Oh, and i agree with you 100%. I dont mind change in a setting...even one i've been a fan of for so long. It's the HM aspect that makes me nervouse. Although the books and most of the rules in HM fill me with that "old school" feel, the silliness does not. I'm just cautious and protective of my fav. setting, i suppose. Hey, on the bright side, if Mishler/K&C mess up with Mystara...i still have my complete Gaz collection:D
(Now, guys, c'mon: there was some silliness in some of the old D&D Mystara products, you know; remember "Top Ballista
And, after all these years, I just now got the pun behind that title.
Dave Arneson is doing a D20 Blackmoor setting.
And as I always try to.....LINK!!!!: http://www.jovianclouds.com/blackmoor/
It also has the original map with the pdf of the original supplement.
Originally posted by Porphyrogenitus
... be inappropriately silly (Now, guys, c'mon: there was some silliness in some of the old D&D Mystara products, you know; remember "Top Ballista"?), I don't think you should worry too much.
OTOH, there is a big difference between Mystara's and K&Co's silliness. Mystaran stuff like Top Ballista were usually parodies of widespread RW clichès (from history, cinema, comics and tv), while K&Co strikes me as mostly devoted to parodies of gaming habits, campaign settings, and other stuff that is directly linked to the gaming community.
As for fan works resulting in lower quality, well, it would have been weird is the opposite were true. Yet, even in the Birthright case there are a few high points (e.g., I think the classes were well done). Of course, much depends on which fans are working on the setting, and what they are doing, as the Ravenloft example shows.
GP
Originally posted by Plunderer_of_the_planes
And Agathokles comment was?
Sorry, editing problems ;)
Originally posted by Agathokles
OTOH, there is a big difference between Mystara's and K&Co's silliness. Mystaran stuff like Top Ballista were usually parodies of widespread RW clichès (from history, cinema, comics and tv), while K&Co strikes me as mostly devoted to parodies of gaming habits, campaign settings, and other stuff that is directly linked to the gaming community.
I suppose. OtoH, tons of people like the Thar Gaz, but the included gamelet is silliness personified, and Thar's military handbook (name escapes me at the moment) isn't really serious; IMO that's mostly gamer-oriented. Modules like "The Best of Intentions", likewise.
Anyhow, I suppose my main point is that we can wait and see what is produced; there will still be plenty of time for the gnashing of teeth and rending of garments then.
It doesn't affect any of us who don't want to be affected by it (as dude pointed out, we still have all our old junk; K &Co aren't going to drive up in a black van and cart it all away in the dead of night). I'm speaking as someone who's probably not going to be too keen on it, myself, but the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.
I'm sort of curious as to the "when" they'll be setting it; will it be taking off from where the Almanacs left off, or in the AC 1000 era (which is quite possibly the period most of the remaining Mystara gamers still play in. "Longest Year On Record" - j/k). I'm pretty sure that a lot of what Michler writes will be so different from my take as to be unusable to me, but other stuff could very well be cool. We're also assuming that it will be sillied-up-the-wazzo, which might not be the case (we'll have to see, and one could always try to write the guy and ask, see what he says. The one constructive method of expressing a worry at this point, which takes advantage of the fact that nothing's been published yet, is to write the people behind the project expressing whatever concerns you have, and they might take them into account, at least to some extent. Who knows? They won't beat you with iron rods for trying, at least I don't think they will. Not since that last time).
Yet, even in the Birthright case there are a few high points (e.g., I think the classes were well done).
The classes are solid. Some of the rules modifications/tweeks are very good. It's a bit uneaven, though, and some of the things that were tossed in (such as making Sources "virtual guilds") are dubious at best. And the Great Ramming Galleon is right out bizzare.
I didn't know you were into BR, though, Ag, or I'd have sent you this link to Solmyr's current BR PBEM, if you're interested (heavy rules mods of his own to balance things better):
http://enothril.topcities.com/AOS/
I keep trying to nag him into doing another MBr. One of these days. . .
Originally posted by Porphyrogenitus
I didn't know you were into BR, though, Ag,
Actually, upon further reflection, I did know, I had just forgotten.
Now, guys, c'mon: there was some silliness in some of the old D&D Mystara products, you know; remember "Top Ballista"?
OtoH, tons of people like the Thar Gaz, but the included gamelet is silliness personified, and Thar's military handbook (name escapes me at the moment) isn't really serious; IMO that's mostly gamer-oriented. Modules like "The Best of Intentions", likewise.
Ah yes, Top Ballista, The Orcs of Thar and The Best of Intentions. *takes a trip down memory lane* (not that long a trip really, since we are still playing the same Mystara campaign we started with OD&D). Those three were, and are, the best of Mystara. They are also rather silly which isn't really a bad thing when done as well as in those three (read that again). Do you still remember what you had to do to become a shaman of Bagni Gullymaw?
Originally posted by Porphyrogenitus
Actually, upon further reflection, I did know, I had just forgotten.
IIRC, we even played in the same Savage Coast / BR PbeM game for a short while.
Originally posted by Porphyrogenitus
Anyhow, I suppose my main point is that we can wait and see what is produced; there will still be plenty of time for the gnashing of teeth and rending of garments then.
It doesn't affect any of us who don't want to be affected by it (as dude pointed out, we still have all our old junk; K &Co aren't going to drive up in a black van and cart it all away in the dead of night). I'm speaking as someone who's probably not going to be too keen on it, myself, but the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.
Indeed, at worst it can result in a botched attempt that will hurt no one, at best, it will add a little (too many space constraints for such a big setting) to the setting.
Originally posted by Porphyrogenitus
The classes are solid. Some of the rules modifications/tweeks are very good. It's a bit uneaven, though, and some of the things that were tossed in (such as making Sources "virtual guilds") are dubious at best. And the Great Ramming Galleon is right out bizzare.
Actually, I've only seen classes and races up to now--I'm not into 3e that much, so I've just scanned through the pdf to see what the BR people were up to. But yes, the ramming galleon has serious problems.
Originally posted by Porphyrogenitus
I didn't know you were into BR, though, Ag, or I'd have sent you this link to Solmyr's current BR PBEM, if you're interested (heavy rules mods of his own to balance things better):
Too many PbeM campaigns right now, I fear...
Bye,
GP
Originally posted by samsael
And, after all these years, I just now got the pun behind that title.
Egad, what was tyhe pun behind Top Ballista, I don't think I've got it.
Originally posted by Plunderer_of_the_planes
It was a TOP GUN knockoff right?
oh yeah ... that makes sense
And fans on Kenzer's forums have asked him how serious/silly it will be. He said it will be relatively serious, for a Hackmaster product. I think Kenzer realise that the fan base for this product is Mystara fans rather than Knights of the Dinner Table fans - also they have had complaints from HM fans about recent over-the-top silliness that prompted them to change one of the modules they are working on to make it more serious.
Having said that, if you read what James has to say, you'll see it won't be the same as the Mystara portrayed in the Gazetteers (it will be set in AC 1000 though). I don't mind that. My own Mystata is pretty different from the Gazetteer Mystara - the Atraughin Clans are celtic in my world, for example; basically I've relocated the Thyatian Hinterlands there (it never made sense to me to have American Indians in between Sind and Darokin, and Irish celts living in a tropical jungle).
I think it's a good thing that there's no single, tidy, official version of Mystara - it means the DM can choose whichever take on a particular place he prefers, and the the players will find it more difficult to use out-of-game knowledge about the game world. I'll be buying the Hackmaster product and I'm hoping I'll find lots of good stuff in it but I sure won't use it exactly as written.
Now, I played AD&D before I played HM and before I played AD&D I played D&D and I have fond memories of the Known world. It was the first world I ever adventured in after all.
But I have to speak up for Kenzer & Co and also hopefully allay some fears re the HM Mystara. K&C put out some very good products and deal well with their customers. For this alone they deserve some respect. As to the HM Mystara simply because HM are doing it it does not preclude anyone else from doing it.
K&C have a licence to use all pre-3e material to create and support HM but I do not believe it is exclusive. Why not? Because one can buy Robinloft for HM but one can also buy the Ravenloft campaign setting for 3e put out by Sword & Sorcery Studios (IIRC).
So if you don't like HM don't but the Mystara HM setting. Lobby WotC and other d20 companies to put out a Mystara 3e setting. If you demonstrate there is enough interest in it they may do it. And failing that just play BECM D&D in the Known World. It's a pretty good game.
1) Mystara Monstrous Compendium - This is the AD&D 2e monster compilation, and it's rather large. Lots 'n lots of critters in here to convert. you might just want to pick 'n choose the ones you need instead.
2) Red Steel - Gah. I'm working on converting this setting, and let me tell you, it ain't gonna get published. If I followed Wizard's guidelines, the results would be completely unbalanced (*cough* swasbuckling style rules *cough*). Some things need edited down, while others just need cut or completely re-written. The only way I could publish such a thing would be to become an official campaign setting site, which I don't have the time to devote to, really. Or, if someone liscenced the setting.