Interesting Question

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

zombiegleemax

Jul 08, 2003 15:09:40
WARNING!!!! SPOILER BELOW!!!!

Just a wierd thought I had, but here goes... Paladine sacrificed his immortality to defeat Takhsis. Thus he bacame a mortal and took the form of an elf. Thus my question: what happens when he dies? Is he returned to godhood or does he simply go where all other good mortals go? And what about Takhsis, is the same with her or what?

Just thought I'd say that.
#2

warrior-poet

Jul 08, 2003 15:11:31
Damn dude, put some spoiler alerts up there!!!

In response I would have to say that Takhasis will pass on to some kind of afterlife, as will Paladin when he dies. But who knows what can happen then? Both Tas and Raistlin have made some returns from the grave, Takhasis may too.
#3

zombiegleemax

Jul 08, 2003 15:13:41
Sorry.
#4

zombiegleemax

Jul 08, 2003 16:46:31
Edit your first post and at least add a spoiler space then :\


If I'm not mistaken Mishakal will b waiting for him so I dont think he'll travel to the afterlife. He'll stay with her.
#5

Dragonhelm

Jul 08, 2003 16:54:00
To get back on topic...

I would imagine that Paladine and Takhisis would both follow the Progression of Souls once they were made mortal. Takhisis' soul could theoretically be in the Abyss right now, perhaps being toyed with by Hiddukel to torment her, or Sargonnas to seek revenge.

Or, perhaps something entirely different happened.

Do gods have souls? If so, what happens to a god's soul once the god dies?

Thoughts?
#6

zombiegleemax

Jul 08, 2003 17:21:55
They aint gods nemore They are mortals. Elf and human right? so they have souls
#7

zombiegleemax

Jul 08, 2003 20:30:23
Well Dragonhelm, if they are gods, then wouldn't they be purely spiritual entities? This raises the question, if a god is forced into mortal form, do they then have a soul? If so, what happens to it once the god dies in mortal form?

This is just something that I find raises many questions. I would personally love to see Takhsis and Paladine somehow work their way to godhood once again. If so, it would make for an interesting game. Perhaps Takhsis has found someway to become a goddess again, and our PCs have to aid an NPC Paladine attain godhood again. But this raises another question, could one achieve this? Any thoughts?
#8

talinthas

Jul 08, 2003 22:04:37
I wrote a few posts on the dragonlance underground boards regarding this. I'll copy one of them here, but its not exactly on topic. Really close though. Oh well =)
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ahh, but that is the miracle of dragonlance. Takhisis exists for the sole reason of trying to conquer and steal krynn. She's been at it since the beginning of time. eventually though, the balance would shift, and she would lose for good. however, paladine realised this, and invoked the failsafe written in the tobril to prevent the balance from becoming skewed.

basically think like this. High god sets down the Law, in the form of the tobril. Chaos allows the gods to try to break those laws. Gilean mediates and creates a command which says that if one god breaks the law, his diametric opposite must as well. If one god renounces godhood, his opposite must as well. Mortality can only happen on equal terms.

And with the original world it worked out. Takhi invaded, was repelled by huma. There was a clause saying that she could not return till the land was broken. Gilean causes cataclysm, takhy starts over. Foundation stone. War of the lance, she's partially here. Driven back by raist and tanis working together. Legends. Raist tries to break the laws. Self destruction of the system. Backtrack, and the world resumes.

However, chaos interfered. He does not like laws, so he manifested and decided to eliminate this mass of order. The gods fought back, within the scope of law. takhisis, however, capitalised on her father's chaotic rage. She fled the scene. The gods beat chaos, and those that remained forced him into binding clause saying that chaos must leave. But Ionthas is a shifty being, and causing strife within a framework is his modus operandi. So he retailiates with the banishment clause. The gods who are present must leave as well.

The gods WHO ARE PRESENT.

Takhisis, having finally found the way around, waits until the compliant dieties leave. Remember, DL is about the triumvirate of opposites. Lawful good. True Neutral. Chaotic Evil.

Takh invokes her chaotic heritage and snatches krynn away. She sets herself up as the One, breaking every law in the tobril, but working completely within her own psychological framework. However, she has finally accomplished her goal of total domination, despair, hopelessness and all that. Aside from those damned giant dragons, but hey, one thing at a time, right?

So while this is happening, paladine is frantically consulting gilean to see what the hell to do. He didnt want to fully abandon his children. He is a god of love and mercy. So he turned to the back of the tobril, and looked at the final clause. To strip a god of power, you must sacrifice yourself. Paladine understands this.

See, this is why Paladine isnt the copout cheapskate you think he is. He sacrifices GODHOOD to save the world. The balance must be maintained afterall. So what happens? Krynn is restored, the balance mantained. LG and CE are gone, but TN is the fulcrum of the balance and goes nowhere. Chaos has been worked within the framework of the law, and the celestial order has been changed forever. All parties are satisfied, and the yin once again matches the yang.

Of course, Takhisis is still irrevocably dead, and Paladine is well on his way to dying. But remember, he had a choice of mortal form. Its very likely that he just chose to assume the body of one of the first elves. Silvanos lived for 3 thousand years. I think Paladine himself could manage that.


Phew. How's that for an explanation?

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end copy. I think this is close to the point you were asking =)
#9

cam_banks

Jul 08, 2003 23:14:31
But... Takhisis was Lawful Evil.

Cheers,
Cam
#10

talinthas

Jul 08, 2003 23:18:25
semantics, my dear friend =)
that whole post is so outside canon that it doesnt even matter.

Besides, i always thought takh as lawful was pretty lame. Admittedly, she did lawful things, like wait till the cataclysm and abide by the restrictions on her, but i'm in love with the concept of diametric opposition =)
#11

carteeg

Jul 09, 2003 6:35:49
I'm with Cam on this one. With the exception of her snotty nose in the air tantrum fest at the end of the War of Souls her behaviour has always been more to the lawful side. [Her attitude in WoS was probably due to her frustrations after effectively giving up her activite divinity for forty years in an effort to 'finally' win and then having the **** hit the fan right at the moment of triumph... yet again... for the how many-ith time!?!]

I just finished the Legend of Huma yesterday, and I have to say her behaviour at the end of it was extremely lawful. I'm not sure how much LoH is viewed of as cannon, but it is the best example (and freshest in my mind) I've got.

Also, Gilean has struck me as Lawful Neutral and not True Neutral.

Plus, since Neutrality didn't reduce itself by one god, I don't think Paladine and Takhisis were permanently put down. Complete balance does not exist across the three camps, so the descensions of P&T can't have been done in an irreversable fashion. A part of me thinks the other gods don't have the gutts to set the precident. There are rumors of Takhisis' spirit roaming around somewhere on Krynn. I think she's going to be stuck in a holding pattern until Paladine croaks which will open up the possibility of them coming back up to take their seats later... of course if someone else came over and tried to interfere with the process or take a seat in place of one of them... well... all of this is conjecture.