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how will 3.5 effect Darksun?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
thegreatmonkey
Jul 15, 2003 23:14:18 Just wondering how the changes in 3.5 will effect what you guys are doing for darksun... like will you use the revised ranger (hope so I think it fits the darksun ranger well)
#2
zombiegleemax
Jul 16, 2003 1:06:27 Last posted on several threads (you have to dig them up from a few pages back, but they're there, really) is that since most of the 3.5 revisions affect things like combat and such, few changes will need to be made to the core material. It was last mentioned that the core team intends to use the 3.5 ranger, but perhaps that's not fully official yet. Most of the changes I've seen from various reviews and official sources lead me to think that not much will need tweaked as far as the DS core rules go. I could be wrong since I'm not in the core group nor do I have the 3.5 books (or the SRD updates either).
#3
nytcrawlr
Jul 16, 2003 1:23:16 We will be using the 3.5 ranger with a slight modification.
#4
jon_oracle_of_athas
Jul 16, 2003 6:53:57 The 3.5 Ranger gets the expanded option of choosing between Favored Enemy or Favored Terrain (latter has been rewritten to fit with the scaling of the 3.5 Favored Enemy ability).

As for other changes, we haven't discussed these yet at athas.org, but here are some of the issues I will bring up once more of us have the books.

- The Desert Adaptation feat is obsolete (covered by the 3.5 Endurance feat).
- The half-elf Animal Companion mechanic should be rewritten to mesh better with the new animal companion mechanic.
- The Stoneskin spell now gives DR 10/adamantine. The first thought that crosses my mind is changing it to DR 10/metal, but I am unsure of the mechanical implications of DR/adamantine vs magical weapons of +x regarding the PHB version of Stoneskin. This must be clarified prior to any changes.
- Bolas are now in the PHB (completely rewritten - thank Ral).
- Alchemy is no longer exclusive to bards. Anyone can take ranks in Alchemy if the GM allows it. An alchemy trade secret could be an idea to give bards an edge (in addition to Smokestick Poison Application).
- Certain skills are obsolete: Animal Empathy, Intuit Direction, Scry. Others have been renamed. Class lists must be updated.
#5
thegreatmonkey
Jul 28, 2003 23:47:18 Thanks for the info, guys.
#6
jon_oracle_of_athas
Jul 29, 2003 4:30:49 Since then more issues have been found (and more skills are obsolete btw).
#7
Shei-Nad
Jul 29, 2003 12:22:10
Originally posted by Jon, Oracle of Athas

- Alchemy is no longer exclusive to bards. Anyone can take ranks in Alchemy if the GM allows it. An alchemy trade secret could be an idea to give bards an edge (in addition to Smokestick Poison Application).

The PHB states that only spellcasters may craft alchemical items. In Dark Sun, this could easily be modified to: Only Bards.
#8
player1
Jul 29, 2003 12:22:45 Here is my resoning for DR materials in DS.

Admantine is used for pentrating hardness like DR.
This includes Golems, Stoneskin and several other creatures.

Now, at Athas, this would be effectively be DR/-, since there is no material good enough to have similar effects.

But, consdering the spirits of "D&D compatibility" (and "admantine weidling planeshifters"), creatures with hardness like DR should have DR/admantine. We just need to make sure that DR is not too high considering that no native athasian could find way to pentrate it. And since DR 5/admantine means "as hard as iron", such creatures would probably be rare (and 15/admantine non-exsistant).

As for some other things, has anybody noticed how silvered weapons work?
They are considered weaker then ordinary metal weapons, and thus, get reduced harness of 8, and -1 penalty to damage.

I really think that weapons made from inferior materials should follow similar ruling (-1 damage only).

As for other DRs, there are no outsiders, so need for cold iron and silvered weapons is reduced. Cold iron could be used for some fey-like creatures (but, I don't remeber any fey-like creatures at Athas in traditional sense). For silver, if there is a need for such DR, metal weapons would be needed first (to make them silvered).

Of course, some creatures would also gain DR metal too.

Need for alignment based DR, is also reduced due to lack of outsiders, but it could be used for some undead creatures.

And, as far as I have seen, elemenatals have usually DR/-.
#9
thegreatmonkey
Jul 30, 2003 11:47:14 I remember back in 2ed, that Athas was cut off from the rest of the Prime Material Plane, and most of the rest of the planes. Has that changed for DS3? Because if it hasn't, there won't be any planeshifters visiting Athas...
#10
player1
Jul 30, 2003 12:00:19 I know, that's true in 3E DS too.
But without such considerations, there would be never "Is defiler balanced to Preserver" discussions.
#11
flip
Jul 30, 2003 14:48:28
Originally posted by player1
I know, that's true in 3E DS too.
But without such considerations, there would be never "Is defiler balanced to Preserver" discussions.

No, there would be. For reasons that have almost nothing to do with the setting itself, sure, but the discussions would still occur ...

The idea is that the classes, or the races, are *mechanically* importable into other worlds and campaigns without destroying the balance of the game. That's one of the primary reasons for using a shared rule set, after all. And it's also one of the major reasons that roleplaying penalties cannot be used to balance mechanical advantages.
#12
overelemental
Jul 31, 2003 19:40:02 We could invent something like "Tyrian Steel" to replace Admantine. Some very rare and hard alloy that isn't really around anymore since the process to create it has been lost to the ages, but weapons made of it is sometimes found in ancient ruins, under-tyr and such.
#13
Kamelion
Aug 05, 2003 1:23:41 One of the earlier versions of the bard had some kind of "cultural secret" ability that referred to dwarves being the only race that remembered how to make true steel. If that is too extreme, you could have "dwarven steel" (or Tyrian or whatever) as a replacement for adamantine...
#14
zombiegleemax
Aug 05, 2003 1:42:40 I'd say that any other types of metal beyond steel be renamed to other materials or crafted by magical/psionic means. Enchanted crystal, steel infused dsal, rhulisti crafted material (no idea on a name for it), etc. Dwarved steel and tyrian steel just seem to lack some DS flavor to me, IMO.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 thegreatmonkey Jul 15, 2003 23:14:18	Just wondering how the changes in 3.5 will effect what you guys are doing for darksun... like will you use the revised ranger (hope so I think it fits the darksun ranger well)
#2 zombiegleemax Jul 16, 2003 1:06:27	Last posted on several threads (you have to dig them up from a few pages back, but they're there, really) is that since most of the 3.5 revisions affect things like combat and such, few changes will need to be made to the core material. It was last mentioned that the core team intends to use the 3.5 ranger, but perhaps that's not fully official yet. Most of the changes I've seen from various reviews and official sources lead me to think that not much will need tweaked as far as the DS core rules go. I could be wrong since I'm not in the core group nor do I have the 3.5 books (or the SRD updates either).
#3 nytcrawlr Jul 16, 2003 1:23:16	We will be using the 3.5 ranger with a slight modification.
#4 jon_oracle_of_athas Jul 16, 2003 6:53:57	The 3.5 Ranger gets the expanded option of choosing between Favored Enemy or Favored Terrain (latter has been rewritten to fit with the scaling of the 3.5 Favored Enemy ability). As for other changes, we haven't discussed these yet at athas.org, but here are some of the issues I will bring up once more of us have the books. - The Desert Adaptation feat is obsolete (covered by the 3.5 Endurance feat). - The half-elf Animal Companion mechanic should be rewritten to mesh better with the new animal companion mechanic. - The Stoneskin spell now gives DR 10/adamantine. The first thought that crosses my mind is changing it to DR 10/metal, but I am unsure of the mechanical implications of DR/adamantine vs magical weapons of +x regarding the PHB version of Stoneskin. This must be clarified prior to any changes. - Bolas are now in the PHB (completely rewritten - thank Ral). - Alchemy is no longer exclusive to bards. Anyone can take ranks in Alchemy if the GM allows it. An alchemy trade secret could be an idea to give bards an edge (in addition to Smokestick Poison Application). - Certain skills are obsolete: Animal Empathy, Intuit Direction, Scry. Others have been renamed. Class lists must be updated.
#5 thegreatmonkey Jul 28, 2003 23:47:18	Thanks for the info, guys.
#6 jon_oracle_of_athas Jul 29, 2003 4:30:49	Since then more issues have been found (and more skills are obsolete btw).
#7 Shei-Nad Jul 29, 2003 12:22:10	Originally posted by Jon, Oracle of Athas - Alchemy is no longer exclusive to bards. Anyone can take ranks in Alchemy if the GM allows it. An alchemy trade secret could be an idea to give bards an edge (in addition to Smokestick Poison Application). The PHB states that only spellcasters may craft alchemical items. In Dark Sun, this could easily be modified to: Only Bards.
#8 player1 Jul 29, 2003 12:22:45	Here is my resoning for DR materials in DS. Admantine is used for pentrating hardness like DR. This includes Golems, Stoneskin and several other creatures. Now, at Athas, this would be effectively be DR/-, since there is no material good enough to have similar effects. But, consdering the spirits of "D&D compatibility" (and "admantine weidling planeshifters"), creatures with hardness like DR should have DR/admantine. We just need to make sure that DR is not too high considering that no native athasian could find way to pentrate it. And since DR 5/admantine means "as hard as iron", such creatures would probably be rare (and 15/admantine non-exsistant). As for some other things, has anybody noticed how silvered weapons work? They are considered weaker then ordinary metal weapons, and thus, get reduced harness of 8, and -1 penalty to damage. I really think that weapons made from inferior materials should follow similar ruling (-1 damage only). As for other DRs, there are no outsiders, so need for cold iron and silvered weapons is reduced. Cold iron could be used for some fey-like creatures (but, I don't remeber any fey-like creatures at Athas in traditional sense). For silver, if there is a need for such DR, metal weapons would be needed first (to make them silvered). Of course, some creatures would also gain DR metal too. Need for alignment based DR, is also reduced due to lack of outsiders, but it could be used for some undead creatures. And, as far as I have seen, elemenatals have usually DR/-.
#9 thegreatmonkey Jul 30, 2003 11:47:14	I remember back in 2ed, that Athas was cut off from the rest of the Prime Material Plane, and most of the rest of the planes. Has that changed for DS3? Because if it hasn't, there won't be any planeshifters visiting Athas...
#10 player1 Jul 30, 2003 12:00:19	I know, that's true in 3E DS too. But without such considerations, there would be never "Is defiler balanced to Preserver" discussions.
#11 flip Jul 30, 2003 14:48:28	Originally posted by player1 I know, that's true in 3E DS too. But without such considerations, there would be never "Is defiler balanced to Preserver" discussions. No, there would be. For reasons that have almost nothing to do with the setting itself, sure, but the discussions would still occur ... The idea is that the classes, or the races, are mechanically importable into other worlds and campaigns without destroying the balance of the game. That's one of the primary reasons for using a shared rule set, after all. And it's also one of the major reasons that roleplaying penalties cannot be used to balance mechanical advantages.
#12 overelemental Jul 31, 2003 19:40:02	We could invent something like "Tyrian Steel" to replace Admantine. Some very rare and hard alloy that isn't really around anymore since the process to create it has been lost to the ages, but weapons made of it is sometimes found in ancient ruins, under-tyr and such.
#13 Kamelion Aug 05, 2003 1:23:41	One of the earlier versions of the bard had some kind of "cultural secret" ability that referred to dwarves being the only race that remembered how to make true steel. If that is too extreme, you could have "dwarven steel" (or Tyrian or whatever) as a replacement for adamantine...
#14 zombiegleemax Aug 05, 2003 1:42:40	I'd say that any other types of metal beyond steel be renamed to other materials or crafted by magical/psionic means. Enchanted crystal, steel infused dsal, rhulisti crafted material (no idea on a name for it), etc. Dwarved steel and tyrian steel just seem to lack some DS flavor to me, IMO.