WoHS how do they work? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

WoHS how do they work?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Jul 17, 2003 18:39:34 Well, acter reading over the entry in the DLCS, I am totaly and utterly baffled. Half the time it says they get the prestige class automaticly for passing the test. Yet it has prerequisites that you dont need to pass the test. From what I can tell non-specialists (as in starting at first level specialists) are never influenced by the moons. That just doesnt seem right to me.
#2
zombiegleemax
Jul 17, 2003 18:56:07 A very good question.

A related question is: Do non-specialist Wizards have any Forbidden schools, or are all schools of magic open to them?

Kevin
#3
Dragonhelm
Jul 17, 2003 19:24:23 Some of these questions are touched upon in Age of Mortals, due out at GenCon....
#4
zombiegleemax
Jul 17, 2003 21:30:11
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
Some of these questions are touched upon in Age of Mortals, due out at GenCon....

So they have to spend more money to answer a question that they shouldn't have to ask in the first place? Why don't ya be a gent and clarify for them.

I'd try to help ya out, but I don't have the book yet (soon though, soon).
#5
Dragonhelm
Jul 17, 2003 23:15:44
Originally posted by Mucknuggle
So they have to spend more money to answer a question that they shouldn't have to ask in the first place? Why don't ya be a gent and clarify for them.

I wish I could say more now, but I can't until the book is out. Once it is out, I'll do my best to answer any questions.
#6
zombiegleemax
Jul 18, 2003 9:04:16 Surely someone official can answer. Please? At least an official temp solution would be nice. =)
#7
Dragonhelm
Jul 18, 2003 9:33:06 Let me see if I can answer without giving too much away.

Basically, the effects of the moons are tied to the WoHS prestige class. While the prestige class isn't necessary to play a WoHS, I would highly recommend it.

Age of Mortals expands on playing "generalist" wizards, who don't specialize.

Hope that helps.
#8
zombiegleemax
Jul 18, 2003 10:15:15 =( That makes me sad.

The greatest thing about Dragonlance Magic was the effect of the moons, and now you have to be an overly specialized nut to get the bonus. And if you want to be of a good alignment you might as well kiss usefulness good bye. Abjuration and divination!?!? Blech.
#9
zombiegleemax
Jul 18, 2003 11:12:34 Well, Tales of the Lance has the following on Moon Magic and non-specialist wizards:

Moons & Magic:
The phase and alignment of a specific moon affects the power level of a given order. Wizards of 1st through 3rd level are never affected by the lunar phases: their spells are of low enough power.
Only wizards of 6th level or higher and with Intelligence of 15 or greater receive High Sanction bonuses. Others default to the waxing bonuses.

Forbidden Schools: A wizard may never use a spell of 4th level or above from a forbidden school. All spells of levels 1 through 3, however are open to Wizards of High Sorcery with the following restriction. No more than half of a wizards allowed spells may be from a forbidden school. (ie. Thus, a 5th-lvl wizard, who can memorize 4-1st, 2-2nd & 1-3rd level spell, may memorize only 2-1st and 1-2nd-level "forbidden" school spell).

So for Forbidden schools perhaps:
* WHITE (Abjuration): Forbidden schools - Illusion & Necromancy
* RED (Illusion): Forbidden schools - Abjuration & Necromancy
* BLACK (Necromancy): Forbidden schools - Abjuration & Illusion

What do you all think?

Kevin
#10
archmage
Jul 18, 2003 11:18:56
Originally posted by Halabis
=( That makes me sad.

The greatest thing about Dragonlance Magic was the effect of the moons, and now you have to be an overly specialized nut to get the bonus. And if you want to be of a good alignment you might as well kiss usefulness good bye. Abjuration and divination!?!? Blech.

I beg your pardon, but Abjuration and Divination are hardly useless.
Abjuration: dispel magic, globe of invulnerability, greater dispelling, magic circle against evil, minor globe of invulnerability, protection from arrows, protection from elements, protection from evil, spell turning, stoneskin.
Divination: comprehend languages, contact other plane, detect thoughts, discern location, greater scrying, identify, scrying, see invisbility, true seeing
All of these are spells that any wizard worth their salt would do well to have in their repertoire.
Plus, Divination would only cost a WoHS two schools of magic.
I suppose Abjuration and Divination were chosen as the "good magics" because Protection and Knowledge are always aims and golas that the forces of good focus on. In any case, I think it fits Solinari and the White Robes perfectly. Par-Salian would almost certainly have been a diviner. He was such a scholar, after all.
#11
cam_banks
Jul 18, 2003 12:38:54 Divination also has true strike. Can't go wrong there.

Cheers,
Cam
#12
zombiegleemax
Jul 18, 2003 14:09:46
Originally posted by Halabis
=( That makes me sad.

The greatest thing about Dragonlance Magic was the effect of the moons, and now you have to be an overly specialized nut to get the bonus. And if you want to be of a good alignment you might as well kiss usefulness good bye. Abjuration and divination!?!? Blech.

I'm sure you realize that although the moons did provide penalties the net result was a bonus to your spellcasting. This has to be balanced by something. Either a feat (I think there's one made by Cam on the Nexus), a PrC (like the one in the DLCS) or some other method (like paying XP for channeling extra power from the moons, etc.).

As for your other disappointment, WoHS's specialization, it's a matter of debate. Abjuration is a very powerful school IMO. It won't bring you any bragging rights when it comes to insta-kills(tm) but if the party is alive at the end of an encounter you should pat the Abjurer on the back because he did his job.

As for divination I'm inclined to agree with you but the D&D designers did beef it up slightly in 3.5 and you only need to give up one school when you specialize.
#13
daedavias_dup
Jul 18, 2003 22:30:21
Originally posted by Cam Banks
Divination also has true strike. Can't go wrong there.

Cheers,
Cam

Darn you Cam, you beat me to it:P :P :P

*shakes fist*

Diviners actually make the best WoHS since they only have to give up two schools as opposed to three. I think I can live without Necromancy and Illusion.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jul 17, 2003 18:39:34	Well, acter reading over the entry in the DLCS, I am totaly and utterly baffled. Half the time it says they get the prestige class automaticly for passing the test. Yet it has prerequisites that you dont need to pass the test. From what I can tell non-specialists (as in starting at first level specialists) are never influenced by the moons. That just doesnt seem right to me.
#2 zombiegleemax Jul 17, 2003 18:56:07	A very good question. A related question is: Do non-specialist Wizards have any Forbidden schools, or are all schools of magic open to them? Kevin
#3 Dragonhelm Jul 17, 2003 19:24:23	Some of these questions are touched upon in Age of Mortals, due out at GenCon....
#4 zombiegleemax Jul 17, 2003 21:30:11	Originally posted by Dragonhelm Some of these questions are touched upon in Age of Mortals, due out at GenCon.... So they have to spend more money to answer a question that they shouldn't have to ask in the first place? Why don't ya be a gent and clarify for them. I'd try to help ya out, but I don't have the book yet (soon though, soon).
#5 Dragonhelm Jul 17, 2003 23:15:44	Originally posted by Mucknuggle So they have to spend more money to answer a question that they shouldn't have to ask in the first place? Why don't ya be a gent and clarify for them. I wish I could say more now, but I can't until the book is out. Once it is out, I'll do my best to answer any questions.
#6 zombiegleemax Jul 18, 2003 9:04:16	Surely someone official can answer. Please? At least an official temp solution would be nice. =)
#7 Dragonhelm Jul 18, 2003 9:33:06	Let me see if I can answer without giving too much away. Basically, the effects of the moons are tied to the WoHS prestige class. While the prestige class isn't necessary to play a WoHS, I would highly recommend it. Age of Mortals expands on playing "generalist" wizards, who don't specialize. Hope that helps.
#8 zombiegleemax Jul 18, 2003 10:15:15	=( That makes me sad. The greatest thing about Dragonlance Magic was the effect of the moons, and now you have to be an overly specialized nut to get the bonus. And if you want to be of a good alignment you might as well kiss usefulness good bye. Abjuration and divination!?!? Blech.
#9 zombiegleemax Jul 18, 2003 11:12:34	Well, Tales of the Lance has the following on Moon Magic and non-specialist wizards: Moons & Magic: The phase and alignment of a specific moon affects the power level of a given order. Wizards of 1st through 3rd level are never affected by the lunar phases: their spells are of low enough power. Only wizards of 6th level or higher and with Intelligence of 15 or greater receive High Sanction bonuses. Others default to the waxing bonuses. Forbidden Schools: A wizard may never use a spell of 4th level or above from a forbidden school. All spells of levels 1 through 3, however are open to Wizards of High Sorcery with the following restriction. No more than half of a wizards allowed spells may be from a forbidden school. (ie. Thus, a 5th-lvl wizard, who can memorize 4-1st, 2-2nd & 1-3rd level spell, may memorize only 2-1st and 1-2nd-level "forbidden" school spell). So for Forbidden schools perhaps: * WHITE (Abjuration): Forbidden schools - Illusion & Necromancy * RED (Illusion): Forbidden schools - Abjuration & Necromancy * BLACK (Necromancy): Forbidden schools - Abjuration & Illusion What do you all think? Kevin
#10 archmage Jul 18, 2003 11:18:56	Originally posted by Halabis =( That makes me sad. The greatest thing about Dragonlance Magic was the effect of the moons, and now you have to be an overly specialized nut to get the bonus. And if you want to be of a good alignment you might as well kiss usefulness good bye. Abjuration and divination!?!? Blech. I beg your pardon, but Abjuration and Divination are hardly useless. Abjuration: dispel magic, globe of invulnerability, greater dispelling, magic circle against evil, minor globe of invulnerability, protection from arrows, protection from elements, protection from evil, spell turning, stoneskin. Divination: comprehend languages, contact other plane, detect thoughts, discern location, greater scrying, identify, scrying, see invisbility, true seeing All of these are spells that any wizard worth their salt would do well to have in their repertoire. Plus, Divination would only cost a WoHS two schools of magic. I suppose Abjuration and Divination were chosen as the "good magics" because Protection and Knowledge are always aims and golas that the forces of good focus on. In any case, I think it fits Solinari and the White Robes perfectly. Par-Salian would almost certainly have been a diviner. He was such a scholar, after all.
#11 cam_banks Jul 18, 2003 12:38:54	Divination also has true strike. Can't go wrong there. Cheers, Cam
#12 zombiegleemax Jul 18, 2003 14:09:46	Originally posted by Halabis =( That makes me sad. The greatest thing about Dragonlance Magic was the effect of the moons, and now you have to be an overly specialized nut to get the bonus. And if you want to be of a good alignment you might as well kiss usefulness good bye. Abjuration and divination!?!? Blech. I'm sure you realize that although the moons did provide penalties the net result was a bonus to your spellcasting. This has to be balanced by something. Either a feat (I think there's one made by Cam on the Nexus), a PrC (like the one in the DLCS) or some other method (like paying XP for channeling extra power from the moons, etc.). As for your other disappointment, WoHS's specialization, it's a matter of debate. Abjuration is a very powerful school IMO. It won't bring you any bragging rights when it comes to insta-kills(tm) but if the party is alive at the end of an encounter you should pat the Abjurer on the back because he did his job. As for divination I'm inclined to agree with you but the D&D designers did beef it up slightly in 3.5 and you only need to give up one school when you specialize.
#13 daedavias_dup Jul 18, 2003 22:30:21	Originally posted by Cam Banks Divination also has true strike. Can't go wrong there. Cheers, Cam Darn you Cam, you beat me to it:P :P :P shakes fist Diviners actually make the best WoHS since they only have to give up two schools as opposed to three. I think I can live without Necromancy and Illusion.