Zoo-err, Rooks here! How's everyone been?
Wanted to discuss something. SAGA buffs, 5th Age fans, and magic lovers everywhere, this is YOUR thread.
Hybrid Magic. It was talked about somewhat in the old 5th Age boxed set Heroes Of Sorcery, and has always intrigued me. The ability to combine arcane and divine magic into a single unit of magical power (a spell)! The sheer potential of that mechanic in SAGA always blew my mind. Now, I don't have an Age of Mortals book yet, but I'm hoping there is a smidget in there regarding this unique magical practice.
I mean, think of it! A spellcaster, or even PrC such as the Mystic Theurge, able to weave the energies of the arcane and divine into the same spell! The potential is staggering; mechanic-wise, it would open up a whole new are for metamagic feats, spells, class combinations, PrC's and tons more! It could give the potential for new roleplayng opportunities, as playing a character who can not only cast both types of magic, but can meld them together!
What do you all think? I feel that it's extremely feasible and fitting for the feel of the 5th Age, and that the actual mechanic would not be very difficult to bring from SAGA to 3.5 ed., and the payoff would be significant; it would bring together great new mechanics comingled with excellent roleplaying opportunities to give players a chance to do something that no other D&D setting has ever really done.
Opinions? Thoughts? Comments? Blowtorches?
Peace!
Hybrid magic is an interesting concept, especially how it is presented in Heroes of Sorcery. The idea of taking multiple schools of sorcery, spheres of mysticism, or a combination of schools and spheres to get new and different results is cool.
The hard part is to mimic this concept in 3rd edition rules.
One way of doing it would be to lump spells together into schools/spheres, then have some spells be available only if you have the appropriate schools or spheres. If you had a spell called Lava, you may not get it until you have access to spells from the pyromancy and geomancy schools.
Another option would be to take something like the mystic theurge, but tweak it to where you can cast (example) a divine spell known as an arcane spell, and vice versa. At lower levels, it may be helpful, but at higher levels, this really would only come into play when you're running out of spells.
A third option would be to have a Hybrid Mage prestige class, requiring levels of sorcerer and mystic in order to gain it. Perhaps the Hybrid Mage has a spell list with new spells that neither the sorcerer nor the mystic have.
I'm really not sure how to approach this. Each option I present above has it's own problems, or in the case of the last one, doesn't quite have the hybrid feel.
Great topic, Rooks. Glad you brought it up.
Any thoughts on how to approach this, guys?
Given that Sorceror and Mystic were going to be classes available in the DLCS, I made two prestige classes, Adept Sorceror and Adept Mystic.
Now, the adept Sorceror is like the sorceror from SAGA. the prestige class comes with it's own spell lists, divided by it's nature. I.e. Necromancy spells aren't a school for the Adept Sorceror. They are Sphere spells for the Adept Mystic. In taking the prestige class, the Adept sorceror can select one School (from the same schools listed in SAGA). The adept gains a circumstance concentration bonus, and a circumstance spell penetration bonus for spells in that school. However, he's not advancing as a PHB sorceror, and therefore doesn't gain new arcane spells outside the spell list of his choosen school.
The Adept comes with a set of Adept Metamagic Feats. Improved Empower, Enlarge, Extend, Heighten, Maximize, Quicken, Silent, Still spell feats (all with prerequisites related to the standard feats in the PHB).
These Adept metamagic feats do three things.
1) Lower the Spell level adjustment cost of the Prerequisite Feat.
For example, an Adept Quickened Fireball for an adept sorceror uses a spell slot two levels higher instead of four levels highter than the spells actual level.
2) Increase the quality of the spell at the same spell slot cost.
for example, an Adept Enlarged Fireball has it's range Quadrupled instead of the doubled in the PHB Enlarge feat.
3) The quality of the spell is reversable.
For example, an Adept Quickened Freedom spell may have a casting time lengthened to 10 hours instead of 10 minutes, and take up a slot one level lower. :-)
In this way, the SAGA sorceror (as well as the mystic) can have the malleability of spells with cost in spell slots, instead of SAGA's spell points.
The adepts also have a feat called Triple Proficiency, which allows them to take a two more schools for the Adept Sorceror, and Two more spheres for the Adept Mystic (i.e. going from class B to Class A). As a bonus, any spell that is under two (or more) schools or under two spheres can reshape the spell to make it cost one spell slot lower. For example, an Adept Mystic, with the Triple Proficiency feat (specializing in Animism, Healing and Alteration) can place the the spell, Animal Shapes one spell slot lower. Animal Shapes is a spell that deals with Animism and Alteration and should be easier for the Adept Mystic.
Okay, after explaining all of THAT, Here's how i deal with Hybrid spells. To me, that's when an adept Sorceror/Adept mystic can draw on his knowledge of his school and his sphere to help with the spell, in the same way that a SAGA sorceror could draw from his triple proficiency. So I have a feat, Hybrid Proficiency, which allows a spell that is both in a sphere and in a sphere to be cast. The character may pay the cost of his spell by using up a spell slot from his arcane spell slots AND a spell slot from his divine spell slots totalling the spell's level. This simulates drawing on the two pools of spell points in the SAGA system.
For example, Let's say we have a Sorceror/Mystic/Adept-Sorceror/Adept Mystic Character. This character has chosen the sphere of Animism and the school of Summoning. Being an eighth level spell, the S/M/AS/AM character may have the spell take up a 4th level spell slot of his Sorcery slots, and a 4th level spell slot of his Divine spell slots. He may have chosen a 1st level slot and a 7th level slot (providing he reached caster levels to have the slot.)
It's kinda deep, and the game balance issues are twisted. For the cost of one feat, a multiclassing character with two prestige classes uses up two slots in two different spell pools (but with lower level slots) for one specialized spell.
Whew. That's it in a nut shell. since i haven't gamed in a while, i haven't had time to type up the entire rules i have in mind. I do think that qualifying for being Adept requires a test, like the Test for High Sorcery, and the Test of walking up the Celestial Ladder at the Citadel.
Questions? Comments? Flames? Fireballs? Decanters of Endless Water?
Granak Red-Silver
Sivak
So, did i made a complete butt of myself, and posted ideas that were incredibly awful?
Was this inspiring?
Nothing? Was it generally ignored?
Is it the hat?
you don't like it?
:-)
Granak Red-Silver
Sivak
Generally though, people only respond directly when they really disagree with something. So it seems pretty good at first glance, but these are all epic feats I'm afraid. They are too powerful for below 20th level characters.
Originally posted by ferratus
I'm digesting.
Generally though, people only respond directly when they really disagree with something. So it seems pretty good at first glance, but these are all epic feats I'm afraid. They are too powerful for below 20th level characters.
heh. Well, that just means that i need to add a little more balance and start nerfing those feats. :-) I gotta admit, i'm still trying to find a way to "use a sorc slot, and use a mystic slot." I like the idea of burning two spell slots for one favored spell.
I was thinkings, that maybe in becoming adept, the sorc loses his known spells in favor of his adept school. I.e., he might have known stoneskin, but one he became an adept pyromancy, fire spells replaced stoneskin. seems reasonable given SAGA's limit on schools.
I'm thinking of doing it right now, but i'm a bit lazy. IF someone else has already done it, it would save me ton of work. :-)
I know the cheap way out of it...
Take a look at Psionics. I can really good at one, and kinda good at some of the 5 areas.
Expand that to a larger degree, to encompass each of the arcane and divine areas of saga magic. Now, allow people to choose what areas to play with, as appropriate.
-Robert
Originally posted by Granakrs
Ummmm. out of curiousity, has anyone looked at the 3.5e PHB and reorganized the spells there into the SAGA-type spheres and schools?
I'm thinking of doing it right now, but i'm a bit lazy. IF someone else has already done it, it would save me ton of work. :-)
Working on something like that myself, actually. More on this at a later date.