Reasons for Balor+Solar to cooperate - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Reasons for Balor+Solar to cooperate

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Jul 28, 2003 17:46:49 What would make a solar and a balor work together? What could drive these opposite beings to set aside their differences and say "sure we will do this...." I thought it might be amusing to have a solar and balor work together (solar not fallen). But I need a really good reason for this... Being trapped in the ninth layer of hell is a good idea... but its only short term... I was looking for a more long term reason for them to cooperate...
#2
zombiegleemax
Jul 28, 2003 21:58:04 well, if he's CG, maybe the rod of seven parts has been completed, starting the war between law and chaos, so they're allies.
#3
zombiegleemax
Jul 29, 2003 3:39:32 Granted the two would be opposed 99.9% of the time, but anything that they both don't like/want around/are against, etc. could unite the two. The Blood War is a good example. They both form a united front against the baatezu. Faces of Sigil presents Koe, a deva, selling arms to the fiends in the blood war for a simple example (and he could easily be working with a balor to funnel the weapons to the Abyss). Or an artifact could unite the two as in nick's example, wether its to aquire it, destroy it, hide it, learn about it, etc. (an artifact that turns outsiders into modrons would worry or scare the heck out of all known planar denizen, easily forcing the two into co op to get rid of it). Membership in something that each considers greater than they are is another example. Granted, most major outsiders consider mortal organisations petty, I don't see why a solar or balor wouldn't join up with say, the Ciphers, or some other group and hence be forced by other allegiences to work together. The last thing, would be the most improbable, but friendship. Perhaps, in the strange convulted nature of the planes, the two share either a mutal respect, friendship, or even (ack!) love between one another.
#4
weenie
Jul 29, 2003 13:16:45 Hmm... an easier question would be "what would make an archon and a pit fiend work together".

A 200-page contract.
#5
Beleriphon
Aug 01, 2003 11:47:01
Originally posted by Weenie
Hmm... an easier question would be "what would make an archon and a pit fiend work together".

A 200-page contract.

200? You're kidding right? 200 measly pages? As far as I know the only thing baatezu hate more than celestials are tannar'ri, so 200 pages a bit brief my friend. Maybe two hundred thousand pages, or maybe even just one. Either way, 200 is much too standard (some corporate contracts exceed that, and most government contract will at least match that).
#6
zombiegleemax
Aug 01, 2003 16:45:07 It's called a punchline, champ. Look into it. ;)
#7
zombiegleemax
Aug 01, 2003 18:40:32 the rod af seven parts is an artifact, that, once re-assembled, starts the war between Law and Chaos. This means that it is quite possible that your party members will wind up on opposite sides. This means CG celetial, slaad, and demons fight against LG celestials, modrons, and devils.
#8
Beleriphon
Aug 01, 2003 21:28:35
Originally posted by Iegan
It's called a punchline, champ. Look into it. ;)

I guess the Killer Joke will never touch me then.

Actually, I totally forgot my smiley, thus making me look like a dork. Well more of a dork, I am post here I suppose. :P
#9
zombiegleemax
Oct 31, 2003 2:37:05
Originally posted by nick012000
the rod af seven parts is an artifact, that, once re-assembled, starts the war between Law and Chaos. This means that it is quite possible that your party members will wind up on opposite sides. This means CG celetial, slaad, and demons fight against LG celestials, modrons, and devils.

I am curious, where did you read this? Or where can I get more info?
#10
zombiegleemax
Oct 31, 2003 3:56:46 I heard it from an old DM of mine. There's a pic of it here , from the Arms and Equipment Guide (where it was converted to 3.0, i guess).
#11
gadodel
Oct 31, 2003 5:39:20 A total fluke...the randomness that is the Multiverse: The Balor and The Solar, in distant past lifetimes; were brothers. Brothers that loved one another and died the same day, doing the same thing...fighting some Devils....
#12
Shemeska_the_Marauder
Oct 31, 2003 13:17:51
Originally posted by nick012000
I heard it from an old DM of mine. There's a pic of it here , from the Arms and Equipment Guide (where it was converted to 3.0, i guess).

The Rod of 7 parts was, as far as I know, a Greyhawk artifact. The story behind it revolved around some ditzy Gygax idea about a war between law and chaos.

As far as I know its never been picked up and referenced outside of Greyhawk, nor the legend behind it ever detailed beyond the original greyhawk source. I either discount the legend since there's otherwise no precident upon the planes for it. Or assume the 'massive law/chaos war' was only situated on Greyhawk itself.
#13
tsuga_c
Nov 01, 2003 19:06:49 Ditzy is hardly a word when referring to the Law/Chaos conflict that comprised the dividing line of Greyhawk, the original D&D world. The Melnibonean mythos created by Michael Moorcock revolves around this conflict. Elric, anyone?
#14
zombiegleemax
Nov 01, 2003 19:49:25 There was a box set published campaign, featureing the Rod of Seven Parts as the central feature in the game, released for 2e AD&D.
#15
heretic_apostate
Nov 01, 2003 22:26:46 The rod of seven parts:

http://www.svgames.com/tsr1145esd.html

Only $4.74. If you buy it, let me know of the quality. (I'm considering buying it, to replace the physical copy I sold when I dropped out of gaming for a year...)
#16
sildatorak
Nov 02, 2003 3:31:15 A war between law and chaos? I can't imagine such a thing! You must be mistaken about that war, blood.
#17
bob_the_efreet
Nov 02, 2003 14:58:14
Originally posted by Sildatorak
A war between law and chaos? I can't imagine such a thing! You must be mistaken about that war, blood.

Oh, yeah, that'd never happen. *coughbloodwarcough*
#18
factol_rhys_dup
Nov 02, 2003 17:17:53 That Rod of Seven Parts thing has been around for a while. They mention it a couple of times in my Second Edition DMG. Something about some barmy prime "Wind Dukes."
#19
Shemeska_the_Marauder
Nov 03, 2003 1:08:19 *nodding* Interesting, I'll have to look those books/modules up.

And my negative reaction to a law vs chaos war was the implication that it would/did involve the entire multiverse. The Blood War is arguably a war about simply law vs chaos. But it's rather exclusive to 'which is the best and chosen form of evil in the multiverse, chaotic evil or lawful evil.'

The Slaadi and Modrons may have a small involvement, but only because they care exclusively about chaos and law, not hardly as much about the evil part of the alignment axis. The celestials are more concerned that the fiends commit mutual genocide on each other till the end of time and not threaten good as a whole, regardless of LG, NG, or CG.
#20
zombiegleemax
Nov 03, 2003 1:54:01 Not to hijack this thread, necessarily, but...

On a Planescape scale, I can't forsee any sorts of true law vs. true chaos wars starting. There're a couple reasons for this.

First, let me establish, as The Lovely Fiend (brownnose) said before me, the Blood War is more about two differing views of evil, not simply law vs. chaos.

Now, I think the only thing that would cause all-out law vs. chaos war would be if the formians ended up colonizing all the way around the law-side of the Great Wheel. Not likely by any stretch of the imagination.

Basically, the modrons (the lawful exemplar race) and the slaadi (chaotic exemplar race) have no real interest in each other. No apparent interest, anyway. Why would they suddenly escalate into all-out war?

Moreover, the slaadi lack focus or organization. It's apparent in every aspect of their lives, including how they fight. They simply lack the capability to organize themselves to launch and maintain a full-scale war.

The modrons...well, who knows what Primus is up there thinking. But whatever they do, they do it on their own and don't bother other bloods. A barmy lot, those modrons.

As for a celestial equivalent of the Blood War; it'll never happen. The celestials are far, far more able to put aside their law/chaos differences and unite against the threat of evil. They realize that they all work for the greater good, in one form or another, so they are better able to cooperate with each other.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jul 28, 2003 17:46:49	What would make a solar and a balor work together? What could drive these opposite beings to set aside their differences and say "sure we will do this...." I thought it might be amusing to have a solar and balor work together (solar not fallen). But I need a really good reason for this... Being trapped in the ninth layer of hell is a good idea... but its only short term... I was looking for a more long term reason for them to cooperate...
#2 zombiegleemax Jul 28, 2003 21:58:04	well, if he's CG, maybe the rod of seven parts has been completed, starting the war between law and chaos, so they're allies.
#3 zombiegleemax Jul 29, 2003 3:39:32	Granted the two would be opposed 99.9% of the time, but anything that they both don't like/want around/are against, etc. could unite the two. The Blood War is a good example. They both form a united front against the baatezu. Faces of Sigil presents Koe, a deva, selling arms to the fiends in the blood war for a simple example (and he could easily be working with a balor to funnel the weapons to the Abyss). Or an artifact could unite the two as in nick's example, wether its to aquire it, destroy it, hide it, learn about it, etc. (an artifact that turns outsiders into modrons would worry or scare the heck out of all known planar denizen, easily forcing the two into co op to get rid of it). Membership in something that each considers greater than they are is another example. Granted, most major outsiders consider mortal organisations petty, I don't see why a solar or balor wouldn't join up with say, the Ciphers, or some other group and hence be forced by other allegiences to work together. The last thing, would be the most improbable, but friendship. Perhaps, in the strange convulted nature of the planes, the two share either a mutal respect, friendship, or even (ack!) love between one another.
#4 weenie Jul 29, 2003 13:16:45	Hmm... an easier question would be "what would make an archon and a pit fiend work together". A 200-page contract.
#5 Beleriphon Aug 01, 2003 11:47:01	Originally posted by Weenie Hmm... an easier question would be "what would make an archon and a pit fiend work together". A 200-page contract. 200? You're kidding right? 200 measly pages? As far as I know the only thing baatezu hate more than celestials are tannar'ri, so 200 pages a bit brief my friend. Maybe two hundred thousand pages, or maybe even just one. Either way, 200 is much too standard (some corporate contracts exceed that, and most government contract will at least match that).
#6 zombiegleemax Aug 01, 2003 16:45:07	It's called a punchline, champ. Look into it. ;)
#7 zombiegleemax Aug 01, 2003 18:40:32	the rod af seven parts is an artifact, that, once re-assembled, starts the war between Law and Chaos. This means that it is quite possible that your party members will wind up on opposite sides. This means CG celetial, slaad, and demons fight against LG celestials, modrons, and devils.
#8 Beleriphon Aug 01, 2003 21:28:35	Originally posted by Iegan It's called a punchline, champ. Look into it. ;) I guess the Killer Joke will never touch me then. Actually, I totally forgot my smiley, thus making me look like a dork. Well more of a dork, I am post here I suppose. :P
#9 zombiegleemax Oct 31, 2003 2:37:05	Originally posted by nick012000 the rod af seven parts is an artifact, that, once re-assembled, starts the war between Law and Chaos. This means that it is quite possible that your party members will wind up on opposite sides. This means CG celetial, slaad, and demons fight against LG celestials, modrons, and devils. I am curious, where did you read this? Or where can I get more info?
#10 zombiegleemax Oct 31, 2003 3:56:46	I heard it from an old DM of mine. There's a pic of it here , from the Arms and Equipment Guide (where it was converted to 3.0, i guess).
#11 gadodel Oct 31, 2003 5:39:20	A total fluke...the randomness that is the Multiverse: The Balor and The Solar, in distant past lifetimes; were brothers. Brothers that loved one another and died the same day, doing the same thing...fighting some Devils....
#12 Shemeska_the_Marauder Oct 31, 2003 13:17:51	Originally posted by nick012000 I heard it from an old DM of mine. There's a pic of it here , from the Arms and Equipment Guide (where it was converted to 3.0, i guess). The Rod of 7 parts was, as far as I know, a Greyhawk artifact. The story behind it revolved around some ditzy Gygax idea about a war between law and chaos. As far as I know its never been picked up and referenced outside of Greyhawk, nor the legend behind it ever detailed beyond the original greyhawk source. I either discount the legend since there's otherwise no precident upon the planes for it. Or assume the 'massive law/chaos war' was only situated on Greyhawk itself.
#13 tsuga_c Nov 01, 2003 19:06:49	Ditzy is hardly a word when referring to the Law/Chaos conflict that comprised the dividing line of Greyhawk, the original D&D world. The Melnibonean mythos created by Michael Moorcock revolves around this conflict. Elric, anyone?
#14 zombiegleemax Nov 01, 2003 19:49:25	There was a box set published campaign, featureing the Rod of Seven Parts as the central feature in the game, released for 2e AD&D.
#15 heretic_apostate Nov 01, 2003 22:26:46	The rod of seven parts: http://www.svgames.com/tsr1145esd.html Only $4.74. If you buy it, let me know of the quality. (I'm considering buying it, to replace the physical copy I sold when I dropped out of gaming for a year...)
#16 sildatorak Nov 02, 2003 3:31:15	A war between law and chaos? I can't imagine such a thing! You must be mistaken about that war, blood.
#17 bob_the_efreet Nov 02, 2003 14:58:14	Originally posted by Sildatorak A war between law and chaos? I can't imagine such a thing! You must be mistaken about that war, blood. Oh, yeah, that'd never happen. coughbloodwarcough
#18 factol_rhys_dup Nov 02, 2003 17:17:53	That Rod of Seven Parts thing has been around for a while. They mention it a couple of times in my Second Edition DMG. Something about some barmy prime "Wind Dukes."
#19 Shemeska_the_Marauder Nov 03, 2003 1:08:19	nodding Interesting, I'll have to look those books/modules up. And my negative reaction to a law vs chaos war was the implication that it would/did involve the entire multiverse. The Blood War is arguably a war about simply law vs chaos. But it's rather exclusive to 'which is the best and chosen form of evil in the multiverse, chaotic evil or lawful evil.' The Slaadi and Modrons may have a small involvement, but only because they care exclusively about chaos and law, not hardly as much about the evil part of the alignment axis. The celestials are more concerned that the fiends commit mutual genocide on each other till the end of time and not threaten good as a whole, regardless of LG, NG, or CG.
#20 zombiegleemax Nov 03, 2003 1:54:01	Not to hijack this thread, necessarily, but... On a Planescape scale, I can't forsee any sorts of true law vs. true chaos wars starting. There're a couple reasons for this. First, let me establish, as The Lovely Fiend (brownnose) said before me, the Blood War is more about two differing views of evil, not simply law vs. chaos. Now, I think the only thing that would cause all-out law vs. chaos war would be if the formians ended up colonizing all the way around the law-side of the Great Wheel. Not likely by any stretch of the imagination. Basically, the modrons (the lawful exemplar race) and the slaadi (chaotic exemplar race) have no real interest in each other. No apparent interest, anyway. Why would they suddenly escalate into all-out war? Moreover, the slaadi lack focus or organization. It's apparent in every aspect of their lives, including how they fight. They simply lack the capability to organize themselves to launch and maintain a full-scale war. The modrons...well, who knows what Primus is up there thinking. But whatever they do, they do it on their own and don't bother other bloods. A barmy lot, those modrons. As for a celestial equivalent of the Blood War; it'll never happen. The celestials are far, far more able to put aside their law/chaos differences and unite against the threat of evil. They realize that they all work for the greater good, in one form or another, so they are better able to cooperate with each other.