Good Saves: Fort / Ref
Skill Points: 6 + Int mod
No spellcasting ability.
01 Animal Empathy, 1st Favored Enemy, Track
02 Combat Style
03 Terrain Mastery
04 Animal Companion
05 2nd Favored Enemy
06 Improved Combat Style
07 Swift Tracker
08 Terrain Mastery
09 Evasion
10 3rd Favored Enemy
11 Combat Style Mastery
12
13 Terrain Mastery
14
15 4th Favored Enemy
16
17 Improved Evasion
18 Terrain Mastery
19
20 5th Favored Enemy
Terrain Mastery: At 3rd level and every five levels thereafter, the ranger adds a new terrain environment to their repertoire from those given below. Terrain mastery gives a ranger a bonus on checks involving a skill useful in that terrain, or some other appropriate benefit. A ranger also knows how to fight dangerous creatures typically found in that terrain, gaining a +1 insight bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls against creatures with that terrain mentioned in the Environment entry of their descriptions. The horizon walker only gains the bonus if the creature description specifically lists the terrain type.
Rangers take their terrain mastery with them wherever they go. They retain their terrain mastery bonuses on skill checks, attack rolls, and damage rolls whether they’re actually in the relevant terrain or not.
Terrain Mastery Benefits
Aerial: You have a +4 competence bonus on Spot checks, or a +10-foot bonus to your fly speed if you have one. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against aerial creatures.
Aquatic: You gain a +4 competence bonus on Swim checks, or a +10-foot bonus to your swim speed if you have one. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against aquatic creatures.
Desert: You resist effects that tire you. You are immune to fatigue, and anything that would cause you to become exhausted makes you fatigued instead. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against desert creatures.
Forest: You have a +4 competence bonus on Hide checks. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against forest creatures.
Hills: You gain a +4 competence bonus on Listen checks. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against hills creatures.
Marsh: You have a +4 competence bonus on Move Silently checks. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against marsh creatures.
Mountains: You gain a +4 competence bonus on Climb checks, or a +10- foot bonus to your climb speed if you have one. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against mountain creatures.
Plains: You have a +10-foot bonus to your land speed. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against plains creatures.
Underground: You have 60-foot darkvision, or 120-foot darkvision if you already had darkvision from another source. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against underground creatures.
Maybe you may wish to remove Immproved Evasion but I think it is needed to avoid the ranger multiclassing fighter.
Hide in plain sight and camouflage were removed because they were supernatural abilities and this version cannot cast spells.
And what about giving precise shot and rapid shot togegher or Two weapon Defense + Two weapon fighting, by the 2nd level with combat style? Maybe not...
I'm very sorry that the Athas.org Ranger has been discarded in favor of the 3.5 Ranger, like the Druid (damn PHB normalization, killer of flavor), and my little dream, as a Dark Sun fan, is to use that class version with the right adjustments to fit 3.5.
Or to use the 3.5 Ranger WITHOUT spellcasting abilities (that idea was a very cool and flavorwise one, imho), expanded combat styles, and favored creatures and terrains options. Maybe d10 for HP for balancing reasons.
Opinions?
:pile:
Hit die: d10
Good Saves: Fort/Ref
Skill Points: 6+int modifier
Lvl Special
1 Wild Empathy, Dedication, Track
2 Terrain Mastery
3 Endurance
4 Animal Companion
5 Dedication
6 Terrain Mastery
7 Woodland Stride
8 Swift Tracker
9 Evasion
10 Dedication, Terrain Mastery
11
12
13 Camouflage
14 Terrain Mastery
15 Dedication
16
17 Hide in plain sight
18 Terrain Mastery
19
20 Dedication
Dedication: as Favored Enemy abilities in the DS3 Core Rules, but add Favored Creature option (aside from Favored Terrain). The ranger receives +2 to Ride, Handle Animal and Wild Empathy checks when dealing with his favored creature.
Terrain Mastery: As Horizon Walker PrC class feature (the terrain types must be rethinked specifically for Dark Sun; alternatively, this class feature may function like Favored Land ability from the Athas.org Ranger)
Hide in Plain Sight and Camouflage are not supernatural, but extraordinary abilities. Imho, they fits well, considering the similar abilities of the Athas.org Ranger (Fast Track, Hard March, Blaze Trail, Stealth Walk, Stealth Run, Camouflage opposed to Swift Tracker, Endurance, Woodland Stride, Hide in Plain Sight, Camouflage).
Hit die: d10
Good Saves: Fort/Ref
Skill Points: 6+int modifier
Lvl Special
1 Wild Empathy, Track, Favored Terrain
2 Combat Style
3 Endurance
4 Animal Companion
5 Favored Terrain
6 Combat Style
7 Woodland Stride
8 Swift Tracker
9 Evasion
10 Combat Style, Favored Terrain
11
12
13 Camouflage
14 Combat Style
15 Favored Terrain
16
17 Hide in plain sight
18 Combat Style
19
20 Favored Terrain
Combat Style: The ranger gets to choose between one of the following feats paths (he cannot change paths untill he has completed one)
Rapid shot, manyshot
Two weapon fighting, improved two weapon fighting
Mounted combat, mounted archery
Insert a path you like in here.
Both Camouflage and hide in plain sight only work on a favored terrain that the ranger has previously selected.
Edo.
2nd lvl Combat Style - Mounted Combat
6th lvl Improved Combbat Style - Quick Draw
11th lvl Combat Style Mastery - Mounted Archery
The basic idea for quick draw is... in the second round following a charge you may draw a better weapon (other than lance) to make your melee full attack action, since at 6th level you got BAB +6/+1.
Combat Style: Mounted Combat
Improved Combat Style: Spirited Charge
Combat Style Mastery: Trample
Originally posted by guyser
Or
Combat Style: Mounted Combat
Improved Combat Style: Spirited Charge
Combat Style Mastery: Trample
Looks very good... I would just suggest you to exchange Trample for mounted archery. Trample is a too good feat and a character may want to get it as soonn as possible.
We could work with the general sketch from 3.5, using as main class features Combat styles (with yours mounted combat), Terrain Masteries, and favored enemies.
Following that we have to decide...
1.Hit Dice d8 (with good Fort e Ref saves) or d10 (with good fort save)?
I vote for d10
2.Skill points 4 or 6?
I vote for 4
3.Spellcasting abiltity yes or no?
I vote for no.
4.Evasion yes or no?
I vote for no, since I voted for 1d10 (no good ref save).
Improved Combat Style: Trample
Combat Style Mastery: Spirited Charge
Anyway, i don't like very much the Combat Style mechanic. But imo the rest of the 3.5 Ranger class features are fairly nice (they are similar to the Athas.org Ranger abilities).
I hate the idea of an athasian spellcasting ranger, then no spellcasting abilities. Good Reflex Save ( like the 3.5 Ranger for balancing reasons), 6 skill points (same as above) and d10 (for balancing the lack of spellcasting abilities).
Add more options to combat style and favored terrain option (to favored enemy class feature) for flavor reasons.
Or replace Combat Style with more favored something options (terrain, creatures and/or lands...).
Originally posted by Kelsen
Now all we have to do is work together to polish our DS ranger...
We could work with the general sketch from 3.5, using as main class features Combat styles (with yours mounted combat), Terrain Masteries, and favored enemies.
Following that we have to decide...
1.Hit Dice d8 (with good Fort e Ref saves) or d10 (with good fort save)?
I vote for d10
2.Skill points 4 or 6?
I vote for 4
3.Spellcasting abiltity yes or no?
I vote for no.
4.Evasion yes or no?
I vote for no, since I voted for 1d10 (no good ref save).
1. d8 (he is a survivor not a fighter)
2. 4
3. no
4. yes (as I vote for d8)
I love the ideas on the differnet fighting styles. Please, please do it that way.
Just a remark on the other threat reg Gladiator: Why not giving the gladiator fighting styles as well (of course more gladiatorial styles)?
Originally posted by bromleylaerchenheim
1. d8 (he is a survivor not a fighter)
2. 4
3. no
4. yes (as I vote for d8)
I love the ideas on the differnet fighting styles. Please, please do it that way.
Just a remark on the other threat reg Gladiator: Why not giving the gladiator fighting styles as well (of course more gladiatorial styles)?
Agreed. I follow your vote.
1. d8
2. 4
3. no
4. yes
Originally posted by guyser
My fault:
Improved Combat Style: Trample
Combat Style Mastery: Spirited Charge
I suggest that Spirited Charge comes first, since at 3rd and 6th levels you get bonus feats a player may wish to get Spirited Charge soon as possible (Ride-by-Attack at 3rd, then Spirited Charge at 6th). Instead you could give spirited charge at 6th.
Combat Style: Mounted Combat
Improved Combat Style: Spirited Charge
Combat Style Mastery: Mounted Archery
Specifically, it's difficult to assign a bonus mounted combat feat to balance greater twf or Improved Precise Shot.
However, d8/4 skill points/no spellcasting as opposed to d8/6 skill points/spellcasting seems (
) horribly unbalanced.Another option is to give rangers a bonus feat at 2,6,11,16 lvl chosen from the following list:
Mounted Combat (Mounted Archery, Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge, Trample), Point Blank Shot (Far Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Shot on the Run, Improved Precise Shot), Two Weapon Fighting (Two Weapon Defense, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Greater Two Weapon Fighting). All prerequisites must be met.
Originally posted by guyser
The problem is mounted combat feats are relatively weak compared to Archery and Two Weapon Combat style bonus feats.
Specifically, it's difficult to assign a bonus mounted combat feat to balance greater twf or Improved Precise Shot.
Feats are supposed to be balanced with each other.
Mounted Combat may not be as powerful as TWF, however as a must buy pre-requisite, gaing it throught combat style will leave room for you to spend your bonus feats at trample, ride-by-attack, etc...
A ranger can't wait until 11th lvl to get Spirited Charge, most of then would rather get it sooner anyway and forgo the benefit.
Mounted Archery is the only feat a mounted ranger wouldn't mind wainting until the 11th lvl to get it free, same for Improved Precise Shot.
However, d8/4 skill points/no spellcasting as opposed to d8/6 skill points/spellcasting seems (
If you set the ranger with d10 you can't give him good reflex saves, if you can't give him good reflexes saves you can't give him evasion, if he doesn't have evasion he is weaker than a ranger with d8 good reflexes saves and evasion.
For the rest you can off-set the penalties introducing new abilities such as Terrain Mastery.
1. d8
2. 6 skill points
3. no
4. yes
If you set the ranger with d10 you can't give him good reflex saves, if you can't give him good reflexes saves you can't give him evasion
Excuse my ignorance, but this is a written rule?
Concerning d8/d10: the choice should be balance - not "the ranger is not a fighter".
Concerning additional feats. I'm all for expanding the number of favoured enemy/land. Remember we are ditching a lot of flexibility by removing the spells.
However, i would like very much an official DS3 ranger with favored creature (and if possible, favored land) options, in addition to favored terrain. Even expanded combat style options would be nice. Too bad if it isn't possible
- No spells (a given).
- More combat path options. Mounted Combat. Hunter (weapon proficiency on net/bolas/etc. also that feat that allowed one to make non-lethal damage without penalty whose name I can't remember, something for trapmaking)...
- A couple more feats given along the way or faster. Possibly giving a secondary combat path at higher levels.
- Possibly d10 instead of d8.
Of course, it would need some testing for balance.
...there are those that choose the wastes over the tyrrany of the city-states, who choose the feral existance of a beast over the self-styled culture of a freeman. Scouts they are, trailblazers and rangers all, and there are none other that one would want at their side on the open flat or the forsaken trail. Never would one want to face them in open combat, for they fight like wind and flame, with tooth and claw, and not one is similar in their style...
The Wanderer on Rangers
Combat Styles
Cutting Winds
A single weapon is powerful, but two weapons can be devestating.
As PHB
Piercing Hail
At range, a hail of arrows can quickly dismantle any opposition.
As PHB
Thunder's Fury
A weapon is only as strong as it's wielder.
Combat Style: Power Attack
Improved Combat Style: Improved Sunder
Combat Style Mastery: Improved Critical
Flickering Blade
Even the smallest blade strikes true.
Combat Style: Quick Draw
Improved Combat Style: Weapon Finesse
Combat Style Mastery: Quicker than the Eye
Mekillot's Wrath
Run down your opponents and subdue them.
Combat Style: Improved Unarmed Strike
Improved Combat Style: Improved Grapple
Combat Style Mastery: Improved Bull Rush
Just some ideas...may be a little underpowered now that I look over them...
Originally posted by Kelsen
Now all we have to do is work together to polish our DS ranger...
We could work with the general sketch from 3.5, using as main class features Combat styles (with yours mounted combat), Terrain Masteries, and favored enemies.
Following that we have to decide...
1.Hit Dice d8 (with good Fort e Ref saves) or d10 (with good fort save)?
I vote for d10
2.Skill points 4 or 6?
I vote for 4
3.Spellcasting abiltity yes or no?
I vote for no.
4.Evasion yes or no?
I vote for no, since I voted for 1d10 (no good ref save).
IMO:
1. d8 - a ranger has a similar position in a group as a rogue or bard might provide. They tend to not attack from directly in front of their opponent, leaving such things up to the people who can wear heavier armor. As such, they really don't need the d10 hit die. In this I agree 100% with the 3.5 ranger.
2. 6 pts. - Another thing I liked about the 3.5 ranger They have many useful and benefitial skills, and I definitely believe they need a couple extra skill points a level. Once again, rangers fill a similar position as rogues and bards overall, and are more of a skilled class than direct melee class.
3. no - for Dark Sun, I don't like the idea of rangers that cast spells. However the 3.5 ranger is very good, and very balanced. As a result I can live with the comprimise and leave it alone as needed. Maybe generate up a list of psionic powers for them, and convert them over to a psionics-based ranger?
4. yes - for a melee support/skilled class, evasion is very useful.