Horror saves - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Horror saves

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
harzerkatze
Aug 20, 2003 6:20:12 First off, I like the fear saves in Ravenloft 3rd Ed. In D&D, characters face all kinds of creepy creatures and often show no fear, because their players don't even get the idea that they could. Although the fear save system has it's bugs (making it will-based will have more fighters and rangers cower in fear than wizards, which they shouldn't do), it looks good to put the scaryness of monsters back into players heads.

But I don't really like the horror save system, beacuse in my opinion it starts to low. A malign paradign shift? That can cause any seasoned adventurer to go nuts, no doubt. But a pool of blood? A fighter in a D&D world is producing pools of blood himself every day, he won't be scared by that.
I think that the developers did the horror save DCs wrong. While the scaryness of a pool of blood is a fixture in horror novels and movies, these don't usually have hardened warriors as their characters. So using this as a basis for horror saves produces wrong results.

The fear saves are surprisingly well balanced, was my thought. You have to be outnumbered, overpowered etc. to show fear, and most often, fear is in order in such a situation.
But having to make a horror save whenever you encounter a pool of blood or a corpse just doesn't fit to D&D adventurers. I would advise you to simple erase the lower horror check provokers and possibly lower the DC of higher ones. A fighter who killed dozens of opponents with his own hands will look inconsistent if he develops a trauma because he saw another dead person somewhere. That is not mood enhancing, it is ridiculous.
#2
zombiegleemax
Aug 20, 2003 11:00:04 Good points, however you have to remember that Ravenloft is not as high powered as regular D&D, and more often than not the pc's are your run of the mill people, not necessarily adventurers. So to them a pool of blood or seeing a corpse would require a horror check. However, you do make a good point and in a regular D&D game I do not see why that sort of thing would require a horror check, unless the character has led a secluded life or is a cleric who abhors violence or something.
#3
zombiegleemax
Aug 20, 2003 19:55:46 I generally agree with you except when the body or pool of blood belongs to someone they know...its one thing to gack a stuntie critter and spill its blood. Quite another to see Mum or sis laid out.

Oh, and cumulative effects are possible. If you last saw Mum and sis laid out and are "mentally traumatized" you might flinch from pools of blood from then on.
#4
zombiegleemax
Sep 18, 2003 9:29:21 I agree with everything written here, to an extent.

I can see your point about a FR warrior being immune to the "horror" of a blood puddle.

But as the Ranger of Ravenloft noted, a "proper" RL game will be run a bit differently. Instead of having your run-of-the-mill fighter or ranger striking out to find adventure in the Land of Mists, you would have your common man or worker forced out into a world of adventure due to circumstances beyond his control. For the most part, no native will set out to be a "hero" in Ravenloft, it's all a matter of fate (or destiny).

Van Richten, the realms greatest monster hunter, didn't wake up one day and decide to slay vampires. He was forced into that lifestyle by uncontrollable events in his personal life.

So for the "standard" RL session, the Horror rules work just fine. But don't try to incorporate them into FR, as they have no place there.

peace,

MSD
#5
zombiegleemax
Sep 29, 2003 15:27:57 Then, would it be too much for someone to see a tiny critter swimming around in the pool of blood that Mum and Sis are lying in?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 harzerkatze Aug 20, 2003 6:20:12	First off, I like the fear saves in Ravenloft 3rd Ed. In D&D, characters face all kinds of creepy creatures and often show no fear, because their players don't even get the idea that they could. Although the fear save system has it's bugs (making it will-based will have more fighters and rangers cower in fear than wizards, which they shouldn't do), it looks good to put the scaryness of monsters back into players heads. But I don't really like the horror save system, beacuse in my opinion it starts to low. A malign paradign shift? That can cause any seasoned adventurer to go nuts, no doubt. But a pool of blood? A fighter in a D&D world is producing pools of blood himself every day, he won't be scared by that. I think that the developers did the horror save DCs wrong. While the scaryness of a pool of blood is a fixture in horror novels and movies, these don't usually have hardened warriors as their characters. So using this as a basis for horror saves produces wrong results. The fear saves are surprisingly well balanced, was my thought. You have to be outnumbered, overpowered etc. to show fear, and most often, fear is in order in such a situation. But having to make a horror save whenever you encounter a pool of blood or a corpse just doesn't fit to D&D adventurers. I would advise you to simple erase the lower horror check provokers and possibly lower the DC of higher ones. A fighter who killed dozens of opponents with his own hands will look inconsistent if he develops a trauma because he saw another dead person somewhere. That is not mood enhancing, it is ridiculous.
#2 zombiegleemax Aug 20, 2003 11:00:04	Good points, however you have to remember that Ravenloft is not as high powered as regular D&D, and more often than not the pc's are your run of the mill people, not necessarily adventurers. So to them a pool of blood or seeing a corpse would require a horror check. However, you do make a good point and in a regular D&D game I do not see why that sort of thing would require a horror check, unless the character has led a secluded life or is a cleric who abhors violence or something.
#3 zombiegleemax Aug 20, 2003 19:55:46	I generally agree with you except when the body or pool of blood belongs to someone they know...its one thing to gack a stuntie critter and spill its blood. Quite another to see Mum or sis laid out. Oh, and cumulative effects are possible. If you last saw Mum and sis laid out and are "mentally traumatized" you might flinch from pools of blood from then on.
#4 zombiegleemax Sep 18, 2003 9:29:21	I agree with everything written here, to an extent. I can see your point about a FR warrior being immune to the "horror" of a blood puddle. But as the Ranger of Ravenloft noted, a "proper" RL game will be run a bit differently. Instead of having your run-of-the-mill fighter or ranger striking out to find adventure in the Land of Mists, you would have your common man or worker forced out into a world of adventure due to circumstances beyond his control. For the most part, no native will set out to be a "hero" in Ravenloft, it's all a matter of fate (or destiny). Van Richten, the realms greatest monster hunter, didn't wake up one day and decide to slay vampires. He was forced into that lifestyle by uncontrollable events in his personal life. So for the "standard" RL session, the Horror rules work just fine. But don't try to incorporate them into FR, as they have no place there. peace, MSD
#5 zombiegleemax Sep 29, 2003 15:27:57	Then, would it be too much for someone to see a tiny critter swimming around in the pool of blood that Mum and Sis are lying in?