Levels of NPC's presented in DLCS, as well as Magic Item power... - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Levels of NPC's presented in DLCS, as well as Magic Item power...

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Sep 02, 2003 15:28:58 Maybe it's just me, but it seems the NPCs presented in the DLCS are.... well..... underpowered. Especially with the case of Alhanna Starbreeze, Heroine of the Lance, has been a figure of some importance in the more recent history (from the War of the Lance and forward), and yet she is only a total level of 11. I would have figured just about all the Heroes fo the Lance were in their upper teens level-wise by the end of that conflict (not counting time spent in the Chaos War, Age of Mortals, or time-hopping around to steal the souls of powerful wizards). I'd have estimated Alhana at around 19-21 by now, at the very least. Githas I'd gauge would be more likely around 14 or 15th level, with Kerianseray being probably around 17th or so (they've been fighting against Beryl pretty hard for the last few decades).

Then there's the Staff of Magius, which while I don't have the 2nd Edition material for Dragonlance any more, I could have sworn that it was pretty much the big brother to a Staff of the Magi in many ways. Now it's something which is ok, but I know my players would actually scoff at once they got past level 10 or 15.

I dunno, I've always envisioned the characters in books to be bigger than life; no offence but when they were converted to game terms for the DLCS they seem rather.....pathetic.
#2
shugi
Sep 02, 2003 16:20:19 While it's true that Alhana has been around for awhile, she hasn't done all that much. When you pick up Age of Mortals, you might be more inclined to like Goldmoon, Dalamar, Palin, and Laurana -- all of which are level 17+.

The Staff of Magius hasn't changed much, except that it now specifically states that its powers have varied from owner to owner. In other words, there are many undiscovered powers still in the staff. It spoils the "fun" sometimes to list every power of every item, and I think the Staff should be one of those undefined cases.
#3
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Sep 02, 2003 17:29:56 I guess I can see where that could be justified, of the heroes, Alhana was the least "active".
#4
zombiegleemax
Sep 03, 2003 4:42:45
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
Maybe it's just me, but it seems the NPCs presented in the DLCS are.... well..... underpowered. Especially with the case of Alhanna Starbreeze, Heroine of the Lance, has been a figure of some importance in the more recent history (from the War of the Lance and forward), and yet she is only a total level of 11. I would have figured just about all the Heroes fo the Lance were in their upper teens level-wise by the end of that conflict (not counting time spent in the Chaos War, Age of Mortals, or time-hopping around to steal the souls of powerful wizards). I'd have estimated Alhana at around 19-21 by now, at the very least.

I dunno, I've always envisioned the characters in books to be bigger than life; no offence but when they were converted to game terms for the DLCS they seem rather.....pathetic.

Why is that, out of curiosity?

Personally, I HATE campaign settings where every character who participates in any novel/war/adventure rises up to godlike levels. If I wanted a world full of munchkin-type characters, I would play within the Forgotten Realms. Level 20+ is best left for characters who achieve godlike power. And remember, level 10+ IS still high level. Alhana's involvement within the War of the Lance, was also...rather limited. And she is perhaps not the most active 'adventurer', either. I'm glad most characters aren't nearing the epic levels of 20+. Having characters that are more realistically levelled, and a world where not everyone and anyone who has ventured out and killed a few dragons achieves godlike power, is one of the things that I admire about the Dragonlance setting and why I prefer it over others. It makes each individual level seem more important. And I hope the Dragonlance world stays this way.

To each their own, of course. But I like the anti-powergaming characters. And just remember, level 10+ IS still high level. In my opinion, only the very, VERY best should be within the late teens, and even less - the godlike characters such as Raistlin, Fistindantilus, Ariakas, etc - should rise above level 20+.

That's just my opinion, though. I would be curious to see what others think about this, and if it is just me. ;)
#5
sweetmeats
Sep 03, 2003 6:35:02 I can't speak about any appearences of the heroes after the Legends, but by the end of Chronicles I figure that Tanis and the others are about 8th-9th level which isn't too excessive.
#6
zombiegleemax
Sep 03, 2003 6:41:29 I agree with Tyreal here. Too many people get this "achievement complex" (probably a reflection of the society we live in, to some extent) and feel like they're wasting their time unless they play a godlike epic-level warrior who fells his enemies in droves, or a mage who hurls one meteor swarm after another without breaking a sweat... If you regard your character as a walking bunch of statistics and feats, that's fine, but I for one have always felt that Dragonlance is about roleplaying rather than roll-playing. The DLCS and the NPC's therein reflect that, it's as simple as that.

Besides, remember that power is relative - it depends on the world around you, and how you compare with other characters in that world. In the "high munchkinism" that is the Forgotten Realms, for example, a level 11 character might not look that much, but in the context of the Dragonlance world, Alhana is certainly no weakling. And it's not all in the stats, either - "power" can be wielded through influence or status, too, and she has lots of both. Power, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder to a large extent...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Sep 02, 2003 15:28:58	Maybe it's just me, but it seems the NPCs presented in the DLCS are.... well..... underpowered. Especially with the case of Alhanna Starbreeze, Heroine of the Lance, has been a figure of some importance in the more recent history (from the War of the Lance and forward), and yet she is only a total level of 11. I would have figured just about all the Heroes fo the Lance were in their upper teens level-wise by the end of that conflict (not counting time spent in the Chaos War, Age of Mortals, or time-hopping around to steal the souls of powerful wizards). I'd have estimated Alhana at around 19-21 by now, at the very least. Githas I'd gauge would be more likely around 14 or 15th level, with Kerianseray being probably around 17th or so (they've been fighting against Beryl pretty hard for the last few decades). Then there's the Staff of Magius, which while I don't have the 2nd Edition material for Dragonlance any more, I could have sworn that it was pretty much the big brother to a Staff of the Magi in many ways. Now it's something which is ok, but I know my players would actually scoff at once they got past level 10 or 15. I dunno, I've always envisioned the characters in books to be bigger than life; no offence but when they were converted to game terms for the DLCS they seem rather.....pathetic.
#2 shugi Sep 02, 2003 16:20:19	While it's true that Alhana has been around for awhile, she hasn't done all that much. When you pick up Age of Mortals, you might be more inclined to like Goldmoon, Dalamar, Palin, and Laurana -- all of which are level 17+. The Staff of Magius hasn't changed much, except that it now specifically states that its powers have varied from owner to owner. In other words, there are many undiscovered powers still in the staff. It spoils the "fun" sometimes to list every power of every item, and I think the Staff should be one of those undefined cases.
#3 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Sep 02, 2003 17:29:56	I guess I can see where that could be justified, of the heroes, Alhana was the least "active".
#4 zombiegleemax Sep 03, 2003 4:42:45	Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm Maybe it's just me, but it seems the NPCs presented in the DLCS are.... well..... underpowered. Especially with the case of Alhanna Starbreeze, Heroine of the Lance, has been a figure of some importance in the more recent history (from the War of the Lance and forward), and yet she is only a total level of 11. I would have figured just about all the Heroes fo the Lance were in their upper teens level-wise by the end of that conflict (not counting time spent in the Chaos War, Age of Mortals, or time-hopping around to steal the souls of powerful wizards). I'd have estimated Alhana at around 19-21 by now, at the very least. I dunno, I've always envisioned the characters in books to be bigger than life; no offence but when they were converted to game terms for the DLCS they seem rather.....pathetic. Why is that, out of curiosity? Personally, I HATE campaign settings where every character who participates in any novel/war/adventure rises up to godlike levels. If I wanted a world full of munchkin-type characters, I would play within the Forgotten Realms. Level 20+ is best left for characters who achieve godlike power. And remember, level 10+ IS still high level. Alhana's involvement within the War of the Lance, was also...rather limited. And she is perhaps not the most active 'adventurer', either. I'm glad most characters aren't nearing the epic levels of 20+. Having characters that are more realistically levelled, and a world where not everyone and anyone who has ventured out and killed a few dragons achieves godlike power, is one of the things that I admire about the Dragonlance setting and why I prefer it over others. It makes each individual level seem more important. And I hope the Dragonlance world stays this way. To each their own, of course. But I like the anti-powergaming characters. And just remember, level 10+ IS still high level. In my opinion, only the very, VERY best should be within the late teens, and even less - the godlike characters such as Raistlin, Fistindantilus, Ariakas, etc - should rise above level 20+. That's just my opinion, though. I would be curious to see what others think about this, and if it is just me. ;)
#5 sweetmeats Sep 03, 2003 6:35:02	I can't speak about any appearences of the heroes after the Legends, but by the end of Chronicles I figure that Tanis and the others are about 8th-9th level which isn't too excessive.
#6 zombiegleemax Sep 03, 2003 6:41:29	I agree with Tyreal here. Too many people get this "achievement complex" (probably a reflection of the society we live in, to some extent) and feel like they're wasting their time unless they play a godlike epic-level warrior who fells his enemies in droves, or a mage who hurls one meteor swarm after another without breaking a sweat... If you regard your character as a walking bunch of statistics and feats, that's fine, but I for one have always felt that Dragonlance is about roleplaying rather than roll-playing. The DLCS and the NPC's therein reflect that, it's as simple as that. Besides, remember that power is relative - it depends on the world around you, and how you compare with other characters in that world. In the "high munchkinism" that is the Forgotten Realms, for example, a level 11 character might not look that much, but in the context of the Dragonlance world, Alhana is certainly no weakling. And it's not all in the stats, either - "power" can be wielded through influence or status, too, and she has lots of both. Power, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder to a large extent...