But why is it that clerics almost never cast spells in the novels? Goldmoon, for example, was a 5th-level cleric during the WotL, yet when we never see her cast spells, as clerics are supposed to. The most we ever see her do is touch someone's wound and pray, "Heal him, Mishakal!" That's not even a spell at all, just a desperate plea to the deity, which isn't really what a cleric's magic is about.
Crysania, throughout the entire Legends trilogy, casts about, oh I don't know, about THREE spells total! There was that spell that saved her from Lord Soth's power word kill (and that might actually have been all Paladine's doing), there was whatever she did to open the Portal with Raistlin, and then that daylight spell that blinded Caramon for a bit. And there you have it, three spells, only one of which is recognizable and irrefutable as being a cleric spell.
Why are clerics shown as magically inept?
And then we have the Knights of Solamnia, who turn out to be powerful divine spellcasters, but we would never have known it judging from the novels!
Why is clerical magic given the shaft in DL? A cleric, by the very nature of their class, should know something about magical arcana and spellcraft, but the novels treat them as if all they are good for is as medics!
When the gods were gone from the world, everyone seemed to mourn the loss of healing magic only. Why just healing? Clerics also have the best divinations around, yet no one ever mourned not having a speak with dead spell handy, or a discern lies spell to call on.
And that's my rant. :D
By the way, this rant doesn't apply to Mysticism, because at least the Fifth Age books as well as the War of Souls, show mystics casting spells.
It also doesn't apply to druidic magic because Bram Di Thon from the Defenders of Magic trilogy showed how useful druidic spellcasting can be.
Originally posted by The Spellcasting Sorcerer
But why is it that clerics almost never cast spells in the novels? Goldmoon, for example, was a 5th-level cleric during the WotL, yet when we never see her cast spells, as clerics are supposed to. The most we ever see her do is touch someone's wound and pray, "Heal him, Mishakal!" That's not even a spell at all, just a desperate plea to the deity, which isn't really what a cleric's magic is about.
I don´t think the authors of the novels have levels and spell components in mind when they write their books...they write it as they see it...if putting a hand on a wound and saying a prayer to your god is what it takes in the mind of the author then that´s what the author is going to write...not what it says in some rulebook.
A cleric, by the very nature of their class, should know something about magical arcana and spellcraft, but the novels treat them as if all they are good for is as medics!
Well...after a big battle when most members of the party lost lot of HP, what should a cleric do, and what would u tell him if he says he is saving his magic for divinations and stuff?
Originally posted by The Spellcasting Sorcerer
Why is clerical magic given the shaft in DL? A cleric, by the very nature of their class, should know something about magical arcana and spellcraft, but the novels treat them as if all they are good for is as medics!
Hey! I was a medic in the army and let me tell ya! We´re very handy when the cannon fodder is lying on the ground screaming for help! Sorry just had to say that :D
And I'm pretty sure not a one is a healing spell...oh, wait, that's not true. There's healing in Icewall Trilogy.
And what about Turn Undead?? Most clerics in DL novels can barely hold a zombie at bay. I think Wizards are portray poorly in most novels as well, but by far they get more attention and you can find more books about them casting proper spells.
As for turning, Goldmoon turns the undead in the Sla-Mori.
Originally posted by Dioltach
Didn't Verminaard use some magic at the end of Autumn Twilight? And the Kingpriest uses magic to return Crysania to her body in Legends, and possibly also to disguise himself. Also, during the battle of Palanthas, "flashes of white light" are visible from the temple of Paladine -- I've always assumed that these were spells.
As for turning, Goldmoon turns the undead in the Sla-Mori.
All very vauge references. I don't remember a key character actually casting clerical spells on the scale wizard characters do.
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
All very vauge references. I don't remember a key character actually casting clerical spells on the scale wizard characters do.
Read the Kingpriest Trilogy. The Lightbringer is kickin' ass and takin' names throughout those first two books.
And like I said above, The Citadel and Icewall Trilogy are both good for clerics.
Originally posted by Brimstone
And like I said above, The Citadel and Icewall Trilogy are both good for clerics.
Of course, Knaak kind of makes clerics of Branchala out to be druids, which they kind of aren't. But, well. Can't have it all the way I want it.
Cheers,
Cam
of course the wizards cast more but to them magic is all around and can be flung about at will, though most wizards execise more self controll than that (thank god). but for clerics it is a bit harder, they work constantly to impress thier god so that they do not get their powers taken away, the books are a little more descriptive than you are used to, and in truth when a cleric casts a spell it is always a prayer, a prayer for a certain something to happen. that cetain something could be a simple cure light wounds or it could be a miracle (which was prbably what crysania used to help open the portal)!
also clerics for a time were highly ridiculed because they were the god's children, and when the gods left krynn they got the brunt of the punishment! many might be afraid to show thier true power in front of the closeminded people likely to stone them to death!
certainly clerics are far from being substandard to wizards, as demonstrated in the "twins" trilogy. . . two of great power were needed to open the portal, on of blessed divine and the other of powerful arcane . . . so the respect for clerics still runs high, even in the mindes of mages.
i really hope this quelches any doubts about clerics!;)
That post was so well written, and yet one line makes it completely belligerent and insulting.
Wow... just wow....
Yeah, power-gamers in a Dragonlance forum… good call
Maybe his or her brain cells are dying as I write this. Well, I’m done for tonight.
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
L33t, I have to agree. The post is very reasonable. Too bad the source seems to be an egotistical, narrow-minded, moron accustomed to jumping to very, very wrong assumptions.
Yeah, power-gamers in a Dragonlance forum… good call
Maybe his or her brain cells are dying as I write this. Well, I’m done for tonight.
And I thought I was capable of tearing a person apart intellectually. Good show, Baron, good show.
Raven, you are in violation of the Codes of Conduct.
I do agree that divine casters seem to take a back seat in DL, but that is all for the best. Look at a world like Oerth, where wizards are going out like candles on a ten year old's birthday cake. DL and FR both strive to show that the power of the book is more powerful than that of the sword, which I like. Gameplay-wise, the clerics and druids are very quickly becoming the most powerful characters, but both DL and FR have found ways to increase the power of the arcane to match them in one shape or form.
Unfortunately, like what most have said, there haven't been too many shows of extreme divine power beyond healing. But, with the Mina trilogy coming out, I am sure we are going to see some sort of divine smashing.
Speakig of Mina, she sure as heck used divine magic for other reasons than healing. How else could a frail little thing such as herself become such a machine in the battle field? Divine Might, a little?
Originally posted by Daedavias
Unfortunately, like what most have said, there haven't been too many shows of extreme divine power beyond healing. But, with the Mina trilogy coming out, I am sure we are going to see some sort of divine smashing.
Speakig of Mina, she sure as heck used divine magic for other reasons than healing. How else could a frail little thing such as herself become such a machine in the battle field? Divine Might, a little?
In what timeframe is the Mina trilogy supposed to take place? Post-War of Souls? If so, wouldn't she lack any spellcasting powers since Tak is pushing up daisies? Unless she has one of those epiphanies and converts to Mystic ... hmm. Mina the Mystic. Now that has a nice sound to it. :D
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
L33t, I have to agree. The post is very reasonable. Too bad the source seems to be an egotistical, narrow-minded, moron accustomed to jumping to very, very wrong assumptions.
Yeah, power-gamers in a Dragonlance forum… good call
Maybe his or her brain cells are dying as I write this. Well, I’m done for tonight.
Powergamers in a Dragonlance forum are not impossible, but somehow I doubt that calling us solid excretement was nescessary to the theme of Raven's post.
Honestly, Clerics are underrepresented in the Dragonlance books, probably because they're seen mostly as healing batteries by many authors... and fans.
To comment on your observation that clerics are written up as “healing batteries” I think we have 2nd Edition to thank for that. The cleric was a rather poor class in 2nd Edition AD&D. With 3rd Edition we don’t have to memorize so many healing spells and actually contribute magically, using the healing spells only when they are needed.
R.A Salvatore is the only author to have written clerics decently. And even then he had to throw in there a monk and a crazy dwarf druid.