3.5 Conversion for molydeus

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

zombiegleemax

Sep 16, 2003 8:30:39
I've been looking for a 3.5e conversion of the Molydeus. When I couldn't find one I decided to do one myself, based on the stats I found on this site. I would like some feedback, specifically on the CR. All comments are welcome, though.


Molydeus (Tanar'ri)
Large Outsider (Chaotic, Extraplanar, Evil)
Hit Dice: 16d8+80 (152 hp)
Initiative: +7 (+3 Dex, +4 feat)
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Armor Class: 30 (-1 size, +18 natural, +3 Dex) touch 12,
flat-footed 27
Base Attack/Grapple:+16/+28
Attack: +1 large vorpal dancing twoheadded greataxe +25
melee (3d6+13/x3)
Full Attack: +1 large vorpal dancing twoheadded greataxe
+25/+20/+15/+10 melee (3d6+13/x3) or Doghead
Bite +24 (2d6+8), Snake Bite +19 (1d6+8)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Poison, spell-like abilities, summon demon
vorpal dancing twoheaded greataxe
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 15/cold iron and good,
darkvision 60 ft., immunity to electricity, fire,
and poison, resistance to acid 10 and cold
10, spell resistance 23, telepathy 100 ft.,
summon tanar'ri, true seeing, uncanny dodge
Saves: Fort +15, Refl +13, Will +14
Abilities: Str 27, Dex 16, Con 21, Int 16, Wis 18, cha 21
Skills: Climb +23, Concentration +24, Survival+24, Jump +23, Listen +33, Search +22, Sense Motive +28, Spellcraft +24, Spot +33, Swim +27
Feats: Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Initiative, Track, Power Attack
Environment: A chaotic evil-aligned plane
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 19
Treasure: Standard coins; double goods; standard items, plus +1vorpal dancing doubleheaded greataxe (see below)
Alignment: Always chaotic evil
Advancement:[/b] 17-19 HD (Large); 20-40 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment:

Molydei are chilling to behold. These great creatures appear as powerful, muscular humanoids with dark red skin. In all respects, they could be mistaken for giant red men, but their gruesome heads instantly betray them. One head is that of a large, snarling dog and is constantly alert and missing nothing that goes on around it. The other head is that of a snake, long and prehensile, often observing what goes behind the molydeus. Molydei carry huge two-headed battle axes that are extremely ornate. The molydeus is typically 12 ft. tall and weights 1,600 pounds.
The molydei are the greatest enigma in the Abyss, they are a sort of police. Molydei wander the layers of the Abyss and search for tanar'ri that stray from the cause of the Blood War. They are a political patrol that report directly to the balors themselves. Of course, even the mighty balors are not above reproach and the molydei would turn against one if it strays from the cause. These creatures only exist to serve the cause. They have no loyalty towards any tanar'ri and would readily destroy any of them at the slightest sign of infidelity.

Combat
The molydeus is a potent fighter. They attack fearlessly, and it is nearly unheard of for one of them to retreat from battle.
Spell-like Abilities: At will- Animate Objects, Command (will DC 16), Blindness/deafness (fort DC 17), charm person or animal (will DC 16), black tentacles, fear (will DC 19), improved invisibility, Balefull polymorph(fort DC 20), sleep (will DC 16), lightning bolt (ref DC 18). suggestion (will DC 18), vampiric touch; greater teleport (self plus 50 pounds of objects only), all spells are charisma based.
Poison (Ex): On a succesfull hit, the snakehead injects a powerful venom (Save DC 24) that causes the victim to transform into a manes in 1d6 minutes if a fortitude save fails. A neutralize poison spell followed by remove curse will eliminate the poison. However, once turned into a manes, the victim is irrevocably lost to any means short of divine intervention or a wish.
Summon Demon (Su): Molydei can summon 1 molydeus, 1d2 Chasme or 1d4 Babau with a chance of 40%
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Molydei are never caught flat-footed and cannot be flanked.
Vorpal dancing greataxe (Su): Large twohanded weapon. Upon a successful critical hit, the weapon severs the head of those it strikes. The molydeus can command the weapon to fight on its own. It uses the molydeus' base attack bonus and feats. It accompanies the molydeus (occupying the same square) and fights for 4 rounds before dropping to the ground. When a molydeus is slain, its axe disappears. The only way of getting one of the powerful weapons is to take one from a living molydeus. A molydeus will not rest until it recovers its weapon, stalking the thief day and night without end until the axe is recovered and the thief is horribly killed.
Skills: Molydeus are extremely hard to surprise due to their two ever watchful heads, they receive a +10 racial bonus to Listen and Spot checks
Tactics: The molydei are very effective melee combatants. They use their lightning bolt to soften up foes before wading into combat. They are unafraid of spellcasters due to their high spell resistance.
round 1: Lightning bolt aimed at the most heavily armoured warrior, or summon tanar'ri. If the molydeus does not feel threatened, it conserves this ability for another combat.
round 2: Lightning bolt aimed at the most heavily armoured warrior or balefull polymorph on any apparent spellcaster in range (65 ft).
round 3: close in on most heavily armoured warrior and attack with axe or snakehead bite
round 4: activate vorpal dancing greataxe. Grapple nearest opponent
round 5: vorpal dancing greataxe does full attack against one or multiple opponents, using greater cleave if possible. Molydeus bites grappled foe with its snake head.
round 6: teleport out of range if reduced to 20% of hitpoint. Otherwise, continue melee combat.
#2

primemover003

Sep 16, 2003 18:36:15
High Spell Resistance??? You have it listed as 15! That's not high. It should be 26 or 27. (formula is 10 or 11 + CR, IIRC)

Other than that not bad.
#3

zombiegleemax

Sep 17, 2003 0:58:46
thanks for pointing that out.

I checked out some other SR scores and found:
a Balor has 20 HD, 26 cha and a SR of 28.
A Babau has 7 HD, 13 cha and a SR of 14
A Glaberzou has 12 HD, 20 cha and a SR of 21

I believe the formula should be 10 + 1/2 hd + charisma modifier. The Molydeus SRwould be 19.
#4

zombiegleemax

Sep 19, 2003 1:32:42
what, no other coments?
#5

sildatorak

Sep 19, 2003 11:22:57
I think you've underpowered this guy a lot. A molydeus in a fair fight has a half-decent chance of killing a balor, otherwise their is no point of them trying to enforce tanari participation in the bloodwar. He should only be 1 or 2 hit dice shy of a balor, and be able to hold his own with combat prowess.
His axe for example, is much weaker than it should be. +1 vorpal is a far cry from +5 dancing vorpal. The molydeus is supposed to be so ridiculously powerful that only a very powerful or very stupid party would consider combat with one. They are the most powerful of the tanari after all.
#6

sildatorak

Sep 19, 2003 12:06:01
I shouldn't have jumped your case quite so hard, the source you cited for your conversion had the Molydeus way too weak. Your special attacks are right for the most part, with the exception of the axe.
Here are some very bare 2e stats for Molydeus and Balor respectively (I don't think that there was ever an official 3e molydeus). I've listed the equivalent 3e AC in parantheses for both of them. It should also be noted that the attacks listed are an attack routine, which consists of one of each attack form. One of the big switches between 2e and 3e was combat, so I'm just providing these to give a view of the Molydeus's power relative to the Balor.

Molydeus

Hit Dice: 12
AC: -5 (25)
Attacks: 2d6 (dog bite), 1d6+poison (snake bite), 2d10+5 (+5 great axe)
Magic Resistance: 90%

Balor

Hit Dice: 13
AC: -8 (28)
Attacks: by weapon or 2d6/2d6 (fists)
Magic Resistance: 70%

So you might want to tone up your 3.5e Molydeus to being on par with a 3.5e balor in terms of raw power.
#7

zombiegleemax

Sep 20, 2003 7:09:40
Thanks Sildatorak, that was pretty helpfull. I'll get right into the most difficult part of the conversion: the axe.


I am a bit concerned about overpowering it too much. The axe should be a major concern for almost all foes, so it should be powerfull. However, even a balor has no more than a +1 vorpal longsword, and a +5 dancing, vorpal axe is just too much imo. Especially considering 2e did not allow things like strength to figure into damage and attack roles. (at least not nearly to the level 3e does. You are right, though in that it should be a legendary weapon. A +14 equivalent weapon is just ridiculous, IMO.

I should probably tone up the HD, charisma and spell power of this guy.
#8

sildatorak

Sep 20, 2003 14:15:33
I'd go with +3 dancing vorpal for the molydeus, if only for punching through damage reduction for high powered tanari. I wouldn't worry too much about the dancing since the molydeus doesn't have a claw or fist attack, it just frees up its hands for grappling and such the like. IMO I'd also give the sucker improved unarmed strike so that he can at least punch with his fists without taking attacks of opportunity, even if he would be dealing subdual damage.
#9

zombiegleemax

Oct 02, 2003 3:01:12
I'd go with +3 dancing vorpal for the molydeus, if only for punching through damage reduction for high powered tanari. I wouldn't worry too much about the dancing since the molydeus doesn't have a claw or fist attack, it just frees up its hands for grappling and such the like. IMO I'd also give the sucker improved unarmed strike so that he can at least punch with his fists without taking attacks of opportunity, even if he would be dealing subdual damage.

in 3.5 e damage reduction works a bit different. The strength of the weapon is not that important, but the material and quality is. For example, a tanar'ri can only be hit by cold forged and/or good weapons, while baatezu can only be hurt by silver and/or good weapons.
Although unarmed strikes aren't very powerfull, the molydeus does have a pretty nifty dogheaded bite and snakehead bite attack, which it could use more effectively if the sword is dancing. I think i'll make it a +1 vorpal, dancing sword. The extra HD I was going to give it should allow for a better base attack, which means an extra number of plusses is not really needed.
#10

sildatorak

Oct 04, 2003 21:10:19
Sorry, I'm stuck in 3.0 with more important things to do with my money than buy more gaming books. If that is the case then, +1 is good enough.
#11

zombiegleemax

Oct 05, 2003 3:05:36
too bad. Thanks for the input.
#12

zombiegleemax

Oct 06, 2003 15:31:28
Here's an odd question regarding molydeus:

What the heck are they supposed to do if a klurichir (FF) decides to go stag and stay out of the Blood War? Even if buffed to nearly the strength of a balor, a molydeus would get demolished by one of those things.
#13

zombiegleemax

Oct 06, 2003 15:42:26
Originally posted by MightyMightyThundarr
Here's an odd question regarding molydeus:

What the heck are they supposed to do if a klurichir (FF) decides to go stag and stay out of the Blood War? Even if buffed to nearly the strength of a balor, a molydeus would get demolished by one of those things.

Hmmm... get a few other molydeuses and ambush it?
#14

sildatorak

Oct 06, 2003 19:49:41
Chop his bloody head off! I was thinking about the molydeus axe some more and I thought it should maybe be a keen weapon. The +5 in 2e made it so it would sever on a 15 or better (16 for larger than man sized). Ouch!
#15

zombiegleemax

Oct 13, 2003 2:50:41
true, but adding a keen quality would only mean it could threat on a 19-20 instead of just a 20. With an attack bonus of +25, confirming a crit is really just a piece of cake.

Although if you want to play up the vorpal aspect of the blade, it would probably be a good idea to add keen and perhaps improved critical to the creature.

just checked: keen and improved critical don't stack. In which case i'd go with improved crit, as keen would put the weapon over the +10 bonus, making it an epic weapon.
#16

zombiegleemax

Oct 13, 2003 3:23:57
Also you can only Vorpal on a Natural 20. Keen, Improved Crit, high Threat Range, nothing gets around that little fact. Its better than being Vorpalled on a roll of 12 I say!
#17

zombiegleemax

Oct 13, 2003 8:51:23
dang, you're right.

That makes it hard to justify the +5 price modifier, doesn't it?