Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 rosisha Sep 24, 2003 15:42:04	Ok here is the system. Please understand that I'm doing this with NO BOOKs other then Age of Mortal which had the realms and spheres. Now. I need your help!! Can this work? I'm only looking for positive feedback. I'm ignoring idiots who say "its dead get over it" or such similar comments. Grr! D20 Spell System for Primal Sorcery and Mysticism Step 1 - Statistics and Power In order to choose which Realms or Spheres your character will have access to, it is necessary to consider your primary stat. Either class, Sorcerer or Mystic, can choose from two options: Sorcerer: Intelligence or Charisma Mystic: Wisdom or Charisma This represents a number of things. One, Charisma as the primary stat for a sorcerer never made much sense, because a high Charisma is required for spell casting, yet, if you're character is a loner, outcast, etc, your charisma wouldn't normally be high, yet you could still be a powerful sorcerer. So what I have decided is that at character creation you can choose your primary ability, and base your future development off of that. This also allows for a greater number of character roleplaying choice. The Mystic gains because now the mystic can draw power not necessarily from personal wisdom but also force of personality, someone who is not wise, but very loving and full of the need to heal for instance. Your primary statistic determines how many Realms or Sphere's you have access to: 10 - 16: 1 Sphere or Realm 17 - 20: 2 Spheres or Realms 20+: 3 Spheres or Realms A Sorcerer can only access Realms, a mystic can only access Spheres. Step 2 - Choose your Realms or Spheres The options can be taken from Age of Mortals page 30. Quickly you have the following breakdown: Realms - Aeromancy, Cryomancy, Divination, Electromancy, Enhancement, Geomancy, Hydromancy, Pyromancy, Spectramancy, Summoning, Transmutation Spheres - Animism, Alteration, Channeling, Healing, Meditation, Mentalism, Necromancy, Sensitivity, Spiritualism No sorcery spell can effect a person's mind. Nor can it effect life forces like Necromancy, or increase physical abilities through transmuation. Those are processes found in mysticism. Step 3 - How to cast a Spell Casting a spell in this system requires Skills that are coupled with a system of determing spell strength. Basically you take the Spellcraft skill and you roll to determine if a spell is cast successfully. DC 10 + (Rank of Spell) + (Successful Spells Cast) If the spell fails, it simply fades into the ether with no effect. The following skills can all be used to assist spell casting: Spellcraft (Primary Skill); Knowledge (Mystism/Arcana - ); and Concentration. Thus the character can improve their abilities to master their magic over time, with practice, rather then have any sort of set speciality. You determine the rank of the spell with the following formula, each subsection of a particular spell feature has a number next to it. Those are the spell points. Every five points equals one rank point: Casting Time: - Free Action (5) - Standard Action (4) - 1 Full Turn (3) - 10 Minutes (2) - 1 Hour (1) Range: - Personal (1) - Close (2) - Near Missile (3) - Far Missile (4) - Artillery (5) Target (Group): - Individual (1) - Small Group ~ 2 - 5 (2) - Large Group ~ 6 - 20 (3) - Small Crowd ~ 21 - 40 (4) - Large Crowd ~ 41 - 70 (5) Target (Area): - 5' by 5' Square/Circle/Cone (1) - 10' by 10' Square/Circle/Cone (2) - 15' by 15' Square/Circle/Cone (3) - 20' by 20' Square/Circle/Cone (4) - 30' by 30' Square/Circle/Cone (5) Duration: - Instant (1) - 1 Round/Lvl (2) - Concentration (3) - 1 Turn/Lvl(4) - 1 Hour/Lvl(5) Dice: - 1 pnt/Lvl (1) - 1d4/Lvl (2) - 1d6/Lvl (3) - 1d8/Lvl (4) - 1d10/Lvl (5) Insubstantials: * - 1 Effect (1) - 2 Effects (2) - 3 Effects (3) - 4 Effects (4) - 5 Effects (5) Components: ** - None (0) - 1 Component Type (-1) - 2 Component Types (-2) - 3 Component Types (-4) - 4 Component Types (-5) * = Insubstantials are like "Always hits target" or "Catches all things on fire." Saving throws are always allowed against Primal Magic and do not effect the score of the spell. ** = Component Types are Verbal, Somantic, Material and XP. Examples: Icicle (Rank 2) Casting Time: Standard Action Range: Personal Target: Individual Duration: 1 Rnd/Lvl Components: None This spell allows the Cyromancer to summon forth a sharp icicle to attack with as a dagger. It does 1d4 points of cold damage. So if you have a first level sorcerer, with an intelligence of 12 and four ranks in spell craft, you could cast this spell very easily on your first try. And even then you wouldn't have much difficulty casting it. As your power increases, lower level spells become easier and easier to cast.
#2 Dragonhelm Sep 24, 2003 17:43:02	I'm not all that familiar with SAGA, to be honest, so I won't comment on that. I'll offer a couple of suggestions, then give you a link to something neat. Realms of Sorcery/Spheres of Mysticism - One way to handle this is to divide the PHB spells into the above categories. The number of Realms/Spheres you have access to would be equal to your key ability modifier (Int or Cha for sorcerers, Wis or Cha for mystics). This replaces your spells known. You can have the two classes gain more spheres as you go up, or maybe use a feat for this. Also, you should check out the following by Rooks: Dragonlance: The Age of Mortals Hope that helps!
#3 zombiegleemax Sep 24, 2003 18:38:42	Looks pretty good, just one question. I thought that there was a mana system type setup.
#4 shugi Sep 24, 2003 20:04:31	How are saving throws handled? I would assume the DC is somewhere in the 10 + rank + ability modifier range? One thing to remember is that every free-form system can be abused. It's hard to find a balance between balance and ease of play. :D For example, I created a quick & dirty spell: Casting Time: free action (5) Range: personal (1) Target (area): 20ft. radius (4) Duration: instant (1) Dice: d10/level (5) Insubstantial: caster not harmed by own spell (1) Components: V, S (-2) Sunfire (rank 3) You drop a ball of flame at your feet which then explodes, affecting everything in the spell's radius. If rank-3 spells are similar to 3rd-level spells, this one goes a bit over the top, as you can see. Things do look nice though, keep the thoughts coming!
#5 rosisha Sep 24, 2003 21:35:30	So the question is should we lower the system a bit, or say that the primal sorcery is easy to use to kill vast numbers of people, or maybe state that if you drop it at your feet you'd take damage too... making a range application necessary. I.E. if you say 20 foot radius but its a ranged touch attack you incinerate yourself. I love this though! this will be great fun, and that was an excellent point. Any thoughts on how to handle this? Or perhaps an alternative point system? Rosisha
#6 darthsylver Sep 25, 2003 22:02:34	One thing I was not sure about. Your formula DC 10 + (Rank of Spell) + (Successful Spells Cast) Successful spells cast, is this per day? I assume. The highest rank spell you could have would be a rank 7 spell. There are only 7 factors, casting time, range, target, duration, Dice, components, insubstantials, & components (of which you could have a 0). Maxed out at 35 = rank 7. So would a rank 7 spell be the same as a 7th-level spell or a 9th? If these spells would be of a level equal to rank +2 then would this bring Shugi's Sunfire spell to a more equal level of 5th?
#7 rosisha Sep 26, 2003 10:45:13	Hmm. Thats a good point and something I missed. One thing however is that certain spells will have multiple insubstantial features. That would have to be taken into consideration. Also, what about this. NOTE: If a spell uses 3 options at higher then three points each, that spell has an automatic +1 modifier added to it. 5 options = +2 modifier. I know this is a difficult system, cause there is nothing like it in D20 systems, but the flexability in spell design, and RPing is worth it I think to sit down and pound this out. Rosisha, thanking everyone for participating!
#8 rooks Sep 26, 2003 18:52:04	Hey all! Great work going on in here! I love it! If it helps (as DH kindly pointed out), check out my old DL campaign setting (the link is in his post). I did a whole system for 5th Age magic in there, though it did bend D20 schematics a little (caster power). Also, the book Chaos Magic from mongoose has an excellent system, and a lower powered version of the Epic Level Handbook's Spell seeds is just PERFECT for true D&D compatible 5th Age magic! Whaddya think? Peace!
#9 darthsylver Sep 26, 2003 19:32:13	Hiya Rooks, been awhile & no word. How are ya? And yes the chaos magic book from mongoose is a great system for free form magic spells.
#10 rosisha Sep 26, 2003 23:40:14	ok i'm checking out the Age of Mortals link. Give me some time to absorb and i'll repost as soon as I know whats up! Thanks everyone! Rosisha
#11 rosisha Sep 27, 2003 13:33:36	Ok I like the idea of setting the DC at 0 and building the spell up from there. That is a unique and interesting twist. I also like how you incorporated armor and metamagic feats (much better and thorough thinking then mine). Just a few things: 1) I sort of liked my Chr/Int or Wis thing. It bridges towards the original sorcerer in the PHB so makes it kind of compleat. 2) I would start gaining magical Spheres and Realms at Int/wis/chr 10 not 1. Mostly cause, if I remember correctly, the maximum number of spheres you could have was three. you could say under 10 you only get 1 sphere, and above ten you begin to get more. Something like that. 3) I would state that you need eight hours of full sleep to regain spell points, rather then the regeneration method. 4) Hybrid Spells: TOTALLY AWESOME. MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 5) Enchantment of items: A little too harsh on permement spell point loss. I would make it an EXP cost instead. First, it remains more inline with magic item creation and second it lets the caster at least remain useful but doesn't strip them of a major benefit of being a magician. Other then that: AWESOME! Btw, your Gnome rules ROCK! Rosisha
#12 rooks Sep 27, 2003 14:00:51	Originally posted by Rosisha Ok I like the idea of setting the DC at 0 and building the spell up from there. That is a unique and interesting twist. I also like how you incorporated armor and metamagic feats (much better and thorough thinking then mine). Just a few things: 1) I sort of liked my Chr/Int or Wis thing. It bridges towards the original sorcerer in the PHB so makes it kind of compleat. 2) I would start gaining magical Spheres and Realms at Int/wis/chr 10 not 1. Mostly cause, if I remember correctly, the maximum number of spheres you could have was three. you could say under 10 you only get 1 sphere, and above ten you begin to get more. Something like that. 3) I would state that you need eight hours of full sleep to regain spell points, rather then the regeneration method. 4) Hybrid Spells: TOTALLY AWESOME. MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 5) Enchantment of items: A little too harsh on permement spell point loss. I would make it an EXP cost instead. First, it remains more inline with magic item creation and second it lets the caster at least remain useful but doesn't strip them of a major benefit of being a magician. Other then that: AWESOME! Btw, your Gnome rules ROCK! Rosisha Hey there! Thanks! I always loved those gnome rules too... *sniff, sniff...* And the Hybrid Spells are wicked... one of the coolest things I did in that work was the counterspelling and Hybrid Spells. It just flows really well. I played with my rules for about a year... I can't tell you how AWESOME it all ran - it was like SAGA, but we were playing D&D. It was THAT smooth. I also think you could easily incorporate your ideas of varied ability scores into the mix - I think it's a great idea. And good points on the Permanent magic item creation... I never thought of that... Also, granting more than 3 Realms and Speheres is a good step - SAGA was too limiting in only allowing 3 of each. There is no reasonable explanation for that, so I disregarded that altogether. I'm still very proud of my Sorcerer and Mystic class to this day... I just LOVE the abilities they garner, and I'll be shredding them up and remaking them for an upcoming D&D project I'm working on due out next year! Peace!
#13 rosisha Sep 27, 2003 17:26:55	Any idea on what you are planning on doing for a new system? Rosisha
#14 darthsylver Sep 27, 2003 22:23:41	Knowing rooks, he probably has a plethora of ideas. Just wait and see what he finally comes up with. It is always interesting and usual worth the wait. Even if just for laughs. Hahaha got ya rooks. :D :D :D :D :D Always kidding. The end product is always fun and that is the general idea behind DL, much less RPGs.
#15 rosisha Sep 27, 2003 23:42:55	Actually I really like these sorcery rules over the PHB rules because the PHB rules are good for a general campaing, but they aren't good for the DL campaign. Rosisha
#16 rooks Sep 29, 2003 13:57:26	Seriously though, thanks! Wow! My new D&D project (which will begin production after my D20 Modern Sci-Fi project) will be a completely original campaign setting, incorporating pure 3.5 mechanincs in an innovative and fresh atmosphere. Some trademarks of my work will be appearing in there, and the rules will be extremely tight. The setting will be lavishly detailed with ridiculous amounts of insight and description. On topic though: Though I like my old work, it doesn't completely mesh with 3.5 or the Post-WoS era. I've always thought that a toned-down version of spell seeds from the ELH would be a perfect avenue for 5th Age, SAGA-type magic. Thoughts? Opinions? Peace!
#17 rooks Oct 03, 2003 16:00:41	Bump. Brothers, sisters? Sing it from on high!
#18 rosisha Oct 03, 2003 16:48:32	I need to play test it before I can tell you for sure. I'll work on getting a playtesting oppertunity and go for it I can combine it with my Earth Force Project idea, and see what happens. Rosisha