Do minators have a level adjustment? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Do minators have a level adjustment?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Oct 01, 2003 19:08:28 Seriously. Thats all.
#2
The_White_Sorcerer
Oct 01, 2003 19:52:57 No.
#3
zombiegleemax
Oct 01, 2003 19:58:22
Originally posted by The White Sorcerer
No.

*gives White Sorcerer the award for the shortest reply ever. A huge cup of yummy m&ms!*
#4
kalanth
Oct 01, 2003 22:28:38 Ever copared them to the Half-Ogres, they should have LA.
#5
zombiegleemax
Oct 01, 2003 23:00:07 Yes I have compared them and half-orgres are more powerful. End of story !
#6
kalanth
Oct 01, 2003 23:39:01 How so? I realize that a half-ogre gets some nice stat adjusments, but a Minotaur gets the +4 str (sure with three -2's) and the gore attack? Thats a bonus attack at 2d6 damage plus bonus, and most minotaurs are gonna have a str bonus. A half-ogre is nothing more than a stronger Half-Orc really.
#7
zombiegleemax
Oct 01, 2003 23:55:03 Rude jerk off rofl. I am sorry if I hurt your feelings, try not to take what people say on forums so seriously.

This has been debated so many times.

Sure minotaurs get +4 str, they also get -2 to three other stats. Which balances out.
They do get the natural attack which is only 2d6 if they charge. or 1d6 otherwise.
And they do get the + natural ac.

Look at dwarfs in 3.5
+2 to con, -2 to char. Which does not balance out.
They get a +2 to saves vs spells and spell like abilities.
They do not get slowed down by armor.
They dont get a lvl adjust.
Although one would think that they should.

And half orgres get +4 str and + 2 con which is worth more thatn -2 int and -2 char.
They also get natural armor.
ANd they also get low light vision.
So you can see why they do get a lvl adjust.
#8
kalanth
Oct 02, 2003 0:14:31 Like I said, nothing more than a stronger Half-Orc. In essence, a Half-Orc should then half a Level Adjustment based on all that, or a Half-Ogre should have no Level Adjustment.
#9
zombiegleemax
Oct 02, 2003 8:34:17
Originally posted by Kalanth
Like I said, nothing more than a stronger Half-Orc. In essence, a Half-Orc should then half a Level Adjustment based on all that, or a Half-Ogre should have no Level Adjustment.

Kalanth, sorry man, but you're wrong. Insta_Axe is correct.

The Half-Ogre is a stronger race than the Minotaur, and should have the level adjustment. The Minotaur is getting close to needing one itself, but doesn't quite. I don't have my books here, but I believe that both races can take the Scent ability as a Feat, which is pretty nice.

Don't forget the gore attack, while not charging, is at -5 to hit, and gets half your Str modifier in damage, that's not huge.

*shrug* The Half-Ogre is just straight up a stronger race, they deserve the level adjustment.
#10
zombiegleemax
Oct 02, 2003 11:13:31 Minotaurs bout the same as a regular orc (+4 Strength, -2 to all 3 mental stats). Agreed, they're on the edge of ECL 0 but they are. Now half-ogres are faster, more agile than minotaurs, and they have on average much more hitpoints than the minotaur. Coupled with low-light vision and natural armor (even though it's lower. Personally I put the half-ogre's nat armor to +2 as well. According to Savage Species, it doesn't make a difference), they are quite stronger. not tremendously, but enough that it would be unbalanced to have the half-ogre at ecl 0. On the same token, it hurts minotaurs too much to have an LA +1, as they really and honestly don't get enough to deserve it. their stats are balanced (yes they are), and bout the best things they got is their nat weapons and armor.
#11
zombiegleemax
Oct 02, 2003 16:52:16 Only minotaurs get the scent feat (not the half-ogres).

I seriously don't like the half-ogre what so ever as is. I think the large sized half ogre was cool for the +1 LA so thats what we use in our games.

I LOVE the new Minotaurs but a +2 NA, gore attack, +4 str bonus for any type of melee charachter is wicked strong. My Minotaur melee cleric certainly has ownage. In heavyy armor, high str and no wisdom loss makes a tank of a cleric.

I would NEVER play the half ogre from the DLCS with the Minotaur at 0 ecl floating around.
#12
daedavias_dup
Oct 02, 2003 17:06:00
Originally posted by Hammerhand
Only minotaurs get the scent feat (not the half-ogres).

No, they can purchase the feat. They don't start play with it.
#13
zombiegleemax
Oct 02, 2003 17:23:34
Originally posted by Hammerhand
Only minotaurs get the scent feat (not the half-ogres).

I seriously don't like the half-ogre what so ever as is. I think the large sized half ogre was cool for the +1 LA so thats what we use in our games.

I LOVE the new Minotaurs but a +2 NA, gore attack, +4 str bonus for any type of melee charachter is wicked strong. My Minotaur melee cleric certainly has ownage. In heavyy armor, high str and no wisdom loss makes a tank of a cleric.

I would NEVER play the half ogre from the DLCS with the Minotaur at 0 ecl floating around.

The large-sized half-ogre, with +6 strenght, +4 natural armor, darkvision, 10-ft reach? *Shakes head* that alone should be an ecl 2, if not 3, character before class levels. I ahted the savage species one. too overpowered without adding 2 giant hit dice. I like the half-ogre as is, but it should have +2 nat armor instead of +1. I've seen this version in other products (namely Green Ronin's halfbreeds book) and i agree with it.
Besides, half-ogres should not be large-sized. They're half-ogre, not full ogre, and ogres are barely large-sized critters (9', when the large-size is from... what, 8 1/2 to 12?). They're just fine as a medium-sized creature. Giving them large size is too powerful for a LA +1.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Oct 01, 2003 19:08:28	Seriously. Thats all.
#2 The_White_Sorcerer Oct 01, 2003 19:52:57	No.
#3 zombiegleemax Oct 01, 2003 19:58:22	Originally posted by The White Sorcerer No. gives White Sorcerer the award for the shortest reply ever. A huge cup of yummy m&ms!
#4 kalanth Oct 01, 2003 22:28:38	Ever copared them to the Half-Ogres, they should have LA.
#5 zombiegleemax Oct 01, 2003 23:00:07	Yes I have compared them and half-orgres are more powerful. End of story !
#6 kalanth Oct 01, 2003 23:39:01	How so? I realize that a half-ogre gets some nice stat adjusments, but a Minotaur gets the +4 str (sure with three -2's) and the gore attack? Thats a bonus attack at 2d6 damage plus bonus, and most minotaurs are gonna have a str bonus. A half-ogre is nothing more than a stronger Half-Orc really.
#7 zombiegleemax Oct 01, 2003 23:55:03	Rude jerk off rofl. I am sorry if I hurt your feelings, try not to take what people say on forums so seriously. This has been debated so many times. Sure minotaurs get +4 str, they also get -2 to three other stats. Which balances out. They do get the natural attack which is only 2d6 if they charge. or 1d6 otherwise. And they do get the + natural ac. Look at dwarfs in 3.5 +2 to con, -2 to char. Which does not balance out. They get a +2 to saves vs spells and spell like abilities. They do not get slowed down by armor. They dont get a lvl adjust. Although one would think that they should. And half orgres get +4 str and + 2 con which is worth more thatn -2 int and -2 char. They also get natural armor. ANd they also get low light vision. So you can see why they do get a lvl adjust.
#8 kalanth Oct 02, 2003 0:14:31	Like I said, nothing more than a stronger Half-Orc. In essence, a Half-Orc should then half a Level Adjustment based on all that, or a Half-Ogre should have no Level Adjustment.
#9 zombiegleemax Oct 02, 2003 8:34:17	Originally posted by Kalanth Like I said, nothing more than a stronger Half-Orc. In essence, a Half-Orc should then half a Level Adjustment based on all that, or a Half-Ogre should have no Level Adjustment. Kalanth, sorry man, but you're wrong. Insta_Axe is correct. The Half-Ogre is a stronger race than the Minotaur, and should have the level adjustment. The Minotaur is getting close to needing one itself, but doesn't quite. I don't have my books here, but I believe that both races can take the Scent ability as a Feat, which is pretty nice. Don't forget the gore attack, while not charging, is at -5 to hit, and gets half your Str modifier in damage, that's not huge. shrug The Half-Ogre is just straight up a stronger race, they deserve the level adjustment.
#10 zombiegleemax Oct 02, 2003 11:13:31	Minotaurs bout the same as a regular orc (+4 Strength, -2 to all 3 mental stats). Agreed, they're on the edge of ECL 0 but they are. Now half-ogres are faster, more agile than minotaurs, and they have on average much more hitpoints than the minotaur. Coupled with low-light vision and natural armor (even though it's lower. Personally I put the half-ogre's nat armor to +2 as well. According to Savage Species, it doesn't make a difference), they are quite stronger. not tremendously, but enough that it would be unbalanced to have the half-ogre at ecl 0. On the same token, it hurts minotaurs too much to have an LA +1, as they really and honestly don't get enough to deserve it. their stats are balanced (yes they are), and bout the best things they got is their nat weapons and armor.
#11 zombiegleemax Oct 02, 2003 16:52:16	Only minotaurs get the scent feat (not the half-ogres). I seriously don't like the half-ogre what so ever as is. I think the large sized half ogre was cool for the +1 LA so thats what we use in our games. I LOVE the new Minotaurs but a +2 NA, gore attack, +4 str bonus for any type of melee charachter is wicked strong. My Minotaur melee cleric certainly has ownage. In heavyy armor, high str and no wisdom loss makes a tank of a cleric. I would NEVER play the half ogre from the DLCS with the Minotaur at 0 ecl floating around.
#12 daedavias_dup Oct 02, 2003 17:06:00	Originally posted by Hammerhand Only minotaurs get the scent feat (not the half-ogres). No, they can purchase the feat. They don't start play with it.
#13 zombiegleemax Oct 02, 2003 17:23:34	Originally posted by Hammerhand Only minotaurs get the scent feat (not the half-ogres). I seriously don't like the half-ogre what so ever as is. I think the large sized half ogre was cool for the +1 LA so thats what we use in our games. I LOVE the new Minotaurs but a +2 NA, gore attack, +4 str bonus for any type of melee charachter is wicked strong. My Minotaur melee cleric certainly has ownage. In heavyy armor, high str and no wisdom loss makes a tank of a cleric. I would NEVER play the half ogre from the DLCS with the Minotaur at 0 ecl floating around. The large-sized half-ogre, with +6 strenght, +4 natural armor, darkvision, 10-ft reach? Shakes head that alone should be an ecl 2, if not 3, character before class levels. I ahted the savage species one. too overpowered without adding 2 giant hit dice. I like the half-ogre as is, but it should have +2 nat armor instead of +1. I've seen this version in other products (namely Green Ronin's halfbreeds book) and i agree with it. Besides, half-ogres should not be large-sized. They're half-ogre, not full ogre, and ogres are barely large-sized critters (9', when the large-size is from... what, 8 1/2 to 12?). They're just fine as a medium-sized creature. Giving them large size is too powerful for a LA +1.