Native Spellcasting Traditions - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Native Spellcasting Traditions

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
mad_hatter
Oct 09, 2003 0:11:26 So I picked up AEG's book "Magic," which has a ton of variant arcane spellcasting classes. They all use the standard D&D spell levels/slots per day, but they're altered to be more flavorful.
While I was reading it I got the idea that maybe magic evolved a bit differently on every plane, lending many planes their own spellcasting tradition (and by extension, class). The wizard and Sorcerer classes would still exist and be the most common arcane spellcasters, being the result of the gradual integration of the plane's various magic into one tradition, but the magic that evolved on any given plane would still be the most natural for that plane.
What this would mean is that spells cast by native spellcasters would ignore negative effects of the plane, i.e. a blur spell could be cast on Mechanus by a Technomancer, even though illusion is normally a barred school on Mechanus.
Here's the plane/class associations that I've gotten so far (apologies for any formatting errors) -

Plane - Native Spellcasting Tradition
Arcadia - Number Magic
Bytopia - Forge Magic
Carceri - Thaumaturgy
Elemental Planes - Elementalism
Mechanus - Technomancy
Mt. Celestia - Theurgy (pretiege class only)
Pandemonium - Madness Magic
Ysgard - Rune Magic
Demiplane of Shadow - Shadow Magic

Anyone think this idea has merit?
#2
incenjucar
Oct 09, 2003 2:36:43 I can see prestige classes doing this, but not just an overall 'everyone can do it' thing.

Also, on Mechanus: I'd suggest something like "Gear Magic" or something... and avoid the use of 'mancy' unless you're talking about divination of some sort.
#3
sildatorak
Oct 09, 2003 2:39:53 Are you thinking of distinguishing these from each other by effects generated or by casting method? That is to say would fireball be fire elemental magic because it creates fire or because the caster draws on unseen links with the elemental nature of fire? Either way is workable, but the casting method would produce a richer flavor. Unfortunately it would also be harder to come up with. Anyway, here are a few thoughts; they could probably use some work.

Acheron - War Magic
Astral - Thought Magic
Arborea - Ley Line Magic
Outlands - Antimagic
Beastlands - Form Magic
Gehenna - Ritual Magic
Gray Waste - Sacrificial Magic
Abyss - Fury Magic
Baator - Blood Magic
#4
taotad
Oct 09, 2003 3:53:43 Also the actual process of scribing scrolls should be a little different from plane to plane. All of these methods should be flavor only, so that we avoid to change the overall system. They should cost the same way, and operate the same.
Read magic should also let you copy any spell into your spell selection.

Examples:
- Some wizards should maybe have to scribe by tying senew from magical monsters together, and reading the knots when memorizing.

- Other should organize different colored stones into special pouches and then "read" the stones when they take them out.

- A scribing process through smell would also be cool. A wizard opens an envelope made of leaves and smells what the spell should be like.

- Someone could even make small special flutes for their spells, and comprehend them when they blow through them.

- Maybe some wizards even use their houses as spellbooks, writing on the walls and such. That would force the wizards to never stray far from home.

There are many more things that I could add here, but the tradition of scribing should vary radically from place to place. It would be more interesting for a wizard as PC to have to relate to something completely different from place to place.
#5
mad_hatter
Oct 09, 2003 8:02:57 The types of magic I listed were all from AEG's book "Magic," and with the notable exception of Theurgy, each type has it's own alternate wizard/sorcerer base class. Most have limited spell lists and cast the same mechanically but differently flavor-wise. Some (like the shadow mage) cast so differently that other casters have an automatic -5 to any spellcraft checks to identify a spell they're casting.
Something I was considering to go along with this was allowing the use of the "switching from wiz to sorc/vice-cersa" from the DLCS for switching to a native caster to a wiz/sorc or vice-cersa, but only once in a caster's life.
#6
kilamar
Oct 09, 2003 9:10:54 Flavour:yes
Feel free to add anything you like

Rules:no
This is simply not necessary. The main reason is probably to dish out more boni to certain things.

Apart from that, this is nothing new. Spell keys, forbidden schools and stuff like that were already part of the original Planescape.

Kilamar
#7
mad_hatter
Oct 09, 2003 14:07:00 Boni?
#8
kilamar
Oct 09, 2003 14:53:38
Originally posted by Mad_Hatter
Boni?

boni: latin, plural of the word bonus

Kilamar
#9
mad_hatter
Oct 09, 2003 17:07:04 Ah, I see. Thank you for the clarification.
#10
wyvern76
Oct 11, 2003 22:15:50 The idea is interesting, but I'd be inclined to take the opposite tack and say that sorcery and wizardry were the base spellcasting traditions that these variant methods evolved from on the different planes.

Some other possibilties:
Beastlands - Flesh Magic
Arborea - Witchcraft
I'm not sure where you'd put Ki Magic. Perhaps it was developed by the githzerai on Limbo?

Originally posted by Kilamar
boni: latin, plural of the word bonus

Actually, the plural is bonuses. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bonus

Wyvern
#11
sildatorak
Oct 12, 2003 2:45:03
Originally posted by Wyvern76

Actually, the plural is bonuses.

Cut the guy some slack. It's just a little nerd joke. Like how bi is the plural of bus.
#12
mad_hatter
Oct 12, 2003 3:22:12 The arcane monk was the only class I was really concerned about balance-wise. If they were included I'd personally cut down their unarmed damage progression to match the Inkyo monk from Rokugan. I don't think Ki magic jives well enough with any plane's ideology to be a native tradition, but it could very well have been developed by a sect of monks somewhere.
As for Flesh Magic, it's too neat of an idea not to throw in, and the Beastlands is the closest choice. I didn't know if petitioners there would actually bother to use it, though. And now that you mention it, I do like the idea of these evolving from wizardry and sorcery better than the other way around.
#13
kilamar
Oct 12, 2003 5:07:59
Originally posted by Wyvern76
Actually, the plural is bonuses. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bonus

Wyvern

That is not LATIN.
According to my grammar, the LATIN word bonus follows the O Deklination that goes like this:

Singular
Nominativ bon-us
Genitiv bon-i
Dativ bon-o
Akkusativ bon-um
Ablativ bon-o

Plural
Nominativ bon-i
Genitiv bon-orum
Dativ bon-is
Akkusativ bon-os
Ablativ bon-is

Kilamar
#14
lord_of_the_ninth_02
Oct 13, 2003 0:59:52 Not really, seeing as how it's an adjective, and could therefore be declined as either 1st or 2nd.

Boni would mean that something nominative, plural and masculine, singular, genitive and either neuter or masculine, was good. Or it could be the genitive form of bonum (which is a good thing), so of a good thing.

Either way, only the english word would have been even remotely grammatically correct. Perhaps if you had said bona (2nd Dec. Neuter plural nominative or accusative).

Have fun. Be happy. Valete.
#15
kilamar
Oct 13, 2003 7:24:44
Originally posted by Lord of the Ninth
Boni would mean that something nominative, plural and masculine, singular

Yes, that is the form I meant and used. Sorry, I did not understand the relevance of the rest of your post.

Kilamar
#16
Beleriphon
Oct 14, 2003 4:11:26
Originally posted by Lord of the Ninth
Not really, seeing as how it's an adjective, and could therefore be declined as either 1st or 2nd.

Boni would mean that something nominative, plural and masculine, singular, genitive and either neuter or masculine, was good. Or it could be the genitive form of bonum (which is a good thing), so of a good thing.

Either way, only the english word would have been even remotely grammatically correct. Perhaps if you had said bona (2nd Dec. Neuter plural nominative or accusative).

Have fun. Be happy. Valete.

Bonus can be both a noun and an adjective in English and Latin. The declension, form, and gender of course change for each version thereof.

Anyhoo I wouldn't worry about it too much. At least Latin only has five declensions. I think the most in any one language is twelve.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 mad_hatter Oct 09, 2003 0:11:26	So I picked up AEG's book "Magic," which has a ton of variant arcane spellcasting classes. They all use the standard D&D spell levels/slots per day, but they're altered to be more flavorful. While I was reading it I got the idea that maybe magic evolved a bit differently on every plane, lending many planes their own spellcasting tradition (and by extension, class). The wizard and Sorcerer classes would still exist and be the most common arcane spellcasters, being the result of the gradual integration of the plane's various magic into one tradition, but the magic that evolved on any given plane would still be the most natural for that plane. What this would mean is that spells cast by native spellcasters would ignore negative effects of the plane, i.e. a blur spell could be cast on Mechanus by a Technomancer, even though illusion is normally a barred school on Mechanus. Here's the plane/class associations that I've gotten so far (apologies for any formatting errors) - Plane - Native Spellcasting Tradition Arcadia - Number Magic Bytopia - Forge Magic Carceri - Thaumaturgy Elemental Planes - Elementalism Mechanus - Technomancy Mt. Celestia - Theurgy (pretiege class only) Pandemonium - Madness Magic Ysgard - Rune Magic Demiplane of Shadow - Shadow Magic Anyone think this idea has merit?
#2 incenjucar Oct 09, 2003 2:36:43	I can see prestige classes doing this, but not just an overall 'everyone can do it' thing. Also, on Mechanus: I'd suggest something like "Gear Magic" or something... and avoid the use of 'mancy' unless you're talking about divination of some sort.
#3 sildatorak Oct 09, 2003 2:39:53	Are you thinking of distinguishing these from each other by effects generated or by casting method? That is to say would fireball be fire elemental magic because it creates fire or because the caster draws on unseen links with the elemental nature of fire? Either way is workable, but the casting method would produce a richer flavor. Unfortunately it would also be harder to come up with. Anyway, here are a few thoughts; they could probably use some work. Acheron - War Magic Astral - Thought Magic Arborea - Ley Line Magic Outlands - Antimagic Beastlands - Form Magic Gehenna - Ritual Magic Gray Waste - Sacrificial Magic Abyss - Fury Magic Baator - Blood Magic
#4 taotad Oct 09, 2003 3:53:43	Also the actual process of scribing scrolls should be a little different from plane to plane. All of these methods should be flavor only, so that we avoid to change the overall system. They should cost the same way, and operate the same. Read magic should also let you copy any spell into your spell selection. Examples: - Some wizards should maybe have to scribe by tying senew from magical monsters together, and reading the knots when memorizing. - Other should organize different colored stones into special pouches and then "read" the stones when they take them out. - A scribing process through smell would also be cool. A wizard opens an envelope made of leaves and smells what the spell should be like. - Someone could even make small special flutes for their spells, and comprehend them when they blow through them. - Maybe some wizards even use their houses as spellbooks, writing on the walls and such. That would force the wizards to never stray far from home. There are many more things that I could add here, but the tradition of scribing should vary radically from place to place. It would be more interesting for a wizard as PC to have to relate to something completely different from place to place.
#5 mad_hatter Oct 09, 2003 8:02:57	The types of magic I listed were all from AEG's book "Magic," and with the notable exception of Theurgy, each type has it's own alternate wizard/sorcerer base class. Most have limited spell lists and cast the same mechanically but differently flavor-wise. Some (like the shadow mage) cast so differently that other casters have an automatic -5 to any spellcraft checks to identify a spell they're casting. Something I was considering to go along with this was allowing the use of the "switching from wiz to sorc/vice-cersa" from the DLCS for switching to a native caster to a wiz/sorc or vice-cersa, but only once in a caster's life.
#6 kilamar Oct 09, 2003 9:10:54	Flavour:yes Feel free to add anything you like Rules:no This is simply not necessary. The main reason is probably to dish out more boni to certain things. Apart from that, this is nothing new. Spell keys, forbidden schools and stuff like that were already part of the original Planescape. Kilamar
#7 mad_hatter Oct 09, 2003 14:07:00	Boni?
#8 kilamar Oct 09, 2003 14:53:38	Originally posted by Mad_Hatter Boni? boni: latin, plural of the word bonus Kilamar
#9 mad_hatter Oct 09, 2003 17:07:04	Ah, I see. Thank you for the clarification.
#10 wyvern76 Oct 11, 2003 22:15:50	The idea is interesting, but I'd be inclined to take the opposite tack and say that sorcery and wizardry were the base spellcasting traditions that these variant methods evolved from on the different planes. Some other possibilties: Beastlands - Flesh Magic Arborea - Witchcraft I'm not sure where you'd put Ki Magic. Perhaps it was developed by the githzerai on Limbo? Originally posted by Kilamar boni: latin, plural of the word bonus Actually, the plural is bonuses. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bonus Wyvern
#11 sildatorak Oct 12, 2003 2:45:03	Originally posted by Wyvern76 Actually, the plural is bonuses. Cut the guy some slack. It's just a little nerd joke. Like how bi is the plural of bus.
#12 mad_hatter Oct 12, 2003 3:22:12	The arcane monk was the only class I was really concerned about balance-wise. If they were included I'd personally cut down their unarmed damage progression to match the Inkyo monk from Rokugan. I don't think Ki magic jives well enough with any plane's ideology to be a native tradition, but it could very well have been developed by a sect of monks somewhere. As for Flesh Magic, it's too neat of an idea not to throw in, and the Beastlands is the closest choice. I didn't know if petitioners there would actually bother to use it, though. And now that you mention it, I do like the idea of these evolving from wizardry and sorcery better than the other way around.
#13 kilamar Oct 12, 2003 5:07:59	Originally posted by Wyvern76 Actually, the plural is bonuses. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bonus Wyvern That is not LATIN. According to my grammar, the LATIN word bonus follows the O Deklination that goes like this: Singular Nominativ bon-us Genitiv bon-i Dativ bon-o Akkusativ bon-um Ablativ bon-o Plural Nominativ bon-i Genitiv bon-orum Dativ bon-is Akkusativ bon-os Ablativ bon-is Kilamar
#14 lord_of_the_ninth_02 Oct 13, 2003 0:59:52	Not really, seeing as how it's an adjective, and could therefore be declined as either 1st or 2nd. Boni would mean that something nominative, plural and masculine, singular, genitive and either neuter or masculine, was good. Or it could be the genitive form of bonum (which is a good thing), so of a good thing. Either way, only the english word would have been even remotely grammatically correct. Perhaps if you had said bona (2nd Dec. Neuter plural nominative or accusative). Have fun. Be happy. Valete.
#15 kilamar Oct 13, 2003 7:24:44	Originally posted by Lord of the Ninth Boni would mean that something nominative, plural and masculine, singular Yes, that is the form I meant and used. Sorry, I did not understand the relevance of the rest of your post. Kilamar
#16 Beleriphon Oct 14, 2003 4:11:26	Originally posted by Lord of the Ninth Not really, seeing as how it's an adjective, and could therefore be declined as either 1st or 2nd. Boni would mean that something nominative, plural and masculine, singular, genitive and either neuter or masculine, was good. Or it could be the genitive form of bonum (which is a good thing), so of a good thing. Either way, only the english word would have been even remotely grammatically correct. Perhaps if you had said bona (2nd Dec. Neuter plural nominative or accusative). Have fun. Be happy. Valete. Bonus can be both a noun and an adjective in English and Latin. The declension, form, and gender of course change for each version thereof. Anyhoo I wouldn't worry about it too much. At least Latin only has five declensions. I think the most in any one language is twelve.