Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Oct 14, 2003 9:59:29	hey all... in the DLCS, stats for the half-ogre indicate that it has a level adjustment of +1... but does anyone know where to find the stats for a "default" half-ogre, or how many hit dice one would have so that i can get my total ECL??? and secondly, does anyone have thoughts on why a minotaur has no level adjustment and the half-ogre does?? thanks all.
#2 zombiegleemax Oct 14, 2003 10:47:57	Half-Ogres have no Racial Hitdie, if they did it would be mentioned in their Stat Block. That means that their ECL is their Class Levels + 1. The Half-Ogre has an LA of +1 while the minotaur has an LA of 0 because it is believed that the Half-Ogre is more powerful than the minotaur.
#3 cam_banks Oct 14, 2003 10:55:23	Originally posted by jimmyjames hey all... in the DLCS, stats for the half-ogre indicate that it has a level adjustment of +1... but does anyone know where to find the stats for a "default" half-ogre, or how many hit dice one would have so that i can get my total ECL??? Half-ogres don't have racial hit dice. They only have whatever hit dice they get from character classes, like dwarves, elves and humans, so their effective character level is their class level +1. A Monster Manual format half-ogre would be a half-ogre warrior, just as the default elf and dwarf in the Monster Manual is a warrior. Those are presented so you have something to quickly throw into a game, as opposed to the gnolls, bugbears and so forth which all have racial hit dice. and secondly, does anyone have thoughts on why a minotaur has no level adjustment and the half-ogre does?? It's all in the ability score adjustments. Half-ogres gain a bonus to Constitution and don't get a Dexterity penalty. The two races are very close together in power level, but that kicks the half-ogre over into +1 level adjustment territory. EDIT: And of course I spent so long writing this, that l33t Angel came along and responded. Serves me right for walking away from the keyboard halfway through a post. Cheers, Cam
#4 zombiegleemax Oct 15, 2003 0:29:24	get a copy of savage species.......it's in there.
#5 iltharanos Oct 15, 2003 2:49:54	Originally posted by Sovilis get a copy of savage species.......it's in there. The Savage Species half-ogre is different from the Dragonlance Campaign Setting half-ogre. One notable difference is that the former is Large-sized and the latter is Medium.
#6 zombiegleemax Oct 15, 2003 8:21:37	We use the savage species version in our game as we feel the half ogre in DL seems to be a poor cousin.
#7 zombiegleemax Oct 15, 2003 15:16:10	*hates the Savage Species half ogre. it needs 2 hit dice or else it's too overpowered*
#8 iltharanos Oct 17, 2003 0:19:09	I always felt the Savage Species half-ogre should be medium-sized. Ogres are barely Large-sized as it is, and something that's only half an ogre is large-sized as well? Of course by that reasoning Monster Manual minotaurs shouldn't really be large-sized either (since they're around 7 feet tall) ...
#9 dragontooth Oct 17, 2003 0:29:51	Originally posted by iltharanos I always felt the Savage Species half-ogre should be medium-sized. Ogres are barely Large-sized as it is, and something that's only half an ogre is large-sized as well? Of course by that reasoning Monster Manual minotaurs shouldn't really be large-sized either (since they're around 7 feet tall) ... My Monster Manual states that Minotaurs are "well over 7ft tall"
#10 iltharanos Oct 17, 2003 0:36:31	Originally posted by Dragontooth My Monster Manual states that Minotaurs are "well over 7ft tall" True, but what does "well over" mean? Is he 7'2"? 7'6"? 7'11" 8'8"? If it was only by an inch or two, then I'd say the MM minotaur is right at the borderline of medium/large. If it's more like a foot or two, then it'd definitely be in the large category.
#11 zombiegleemax Oct 17, 2003 8:37:27	i'm almost completely happy with Dragonlance's half-ogre, since it's pretty close to the one i use. However, i bumped the half-ogre's armor to +2. I also had them with darkvision instead of low-light, but now i think about it, the low-light makes sense (it's the pale version of seeing in the dark).
#12 cam_banks Oct 17, 2003 9:24:13	Originally posted by Magus_Extreme i'm almost completely happy with Dragonlance's half-ogre, since it's pretty close to the one i use. However, i bumped the half-ogre's armor to +2. I also had them with darkvision instead of low-light, but now i think about it, the low-light makes sense (it's the pale version of seeing in the dark). It should actually be darkvision and not low-light vision. Low-light vision and darkvision aren't actually related - darkvision doesn't rely on ambient light at all, whereas low-light vision does (and is supposed to represent improved or keen vision even in poor lighting conditions). Elves have both in the Dragonlance Campaign Setting because their vision is not only keen, but extends into wavelengths beyond that of humans (although not to the extent of dwarves and ogres). Cheers, Cam
#13 kalanth Oct 17, 2003 9:56:27	Originally posted by Hammerhand We use the savage species version in our game as we feel the half ogre in DL seems to be a poor cousin. I would have to dissagree here. I have a player in my Campaign that is a very succesful Half-Ogre Chain Fighter, and he is a rather dominating power house based entirely on how he uses his abilities as described in the Half-Ogre that is in the DLCS. I think the power truly comes in how the character is played, and not in the actual stats.
#14 zombiegleemax Oct 18, 2003 11:24:22	amen brother
#15 zombiegleemax Oct 19, 2003 15:12:01	I usually use the brute as a race for DL games and skip the half-ogres all together. I do prefer the savage species version of half-ogre but the brutes provide a pretty good melee bang for your buck. Plus being large sized can be a real pain in the neck at times.