A fear check rule I'd like to try implementing - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

A fear check rule I'd like to try implementing

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
slivvy_gaidin
Oct 16, 2003 20:46:00 My old DM has a list of character Phobias. We all liked the effects that they had in his game, so when I started running my game, we chose to use them again. Thing is, my game is in Ravenloft, and fear of stuff is quite a big factor.
I was thinking of ways to handle the character phobias, and though about this:

Phobia:
->A save vs fear is always required by a character with a phobia when ever they encounter their phobia (even if the situation wouldn't normally require a fear save)
->In addition, the character suffers a -20 penalty to their save vs fear roll when dealing with their phobie (i.e. it is 'practically impossible' to overcome the phobia)

What do you think?
I was also considering adding the statement to the fear and horror saves:

->Rangers add their favoured enemy bonus to their save vs fear and horror checks if the creature that caused the fear or horror check is one of their favoured enemies.
#2
zombiegleemax
Oct 17, 2003 2:44:30 I think phobias (as a result of failed madness checks) is a great idea. The best examples I know of come from Call of Cthullu and all its *bad things* that happen as your sanity drains away. Like pulling all the pins out of a box of grenades while sobbing and gibbering in a dark corner as *it* drags its squalimous, flabby (mostly indestructible) body closer... BUT CoC is not IMO meant to support a long term campaign. Ravenloft is. Be careful not to overdue it or cripple your PCs. Ultimately this is still a heroic setting.

As a result I wouldn't use madness checks except (1) where a (several?) horror check has already failed and the PCs continue to face the same thing - and the sistuation just ISN'T getting any better...or (2) where a PC comes mind to mind with some undead/abomination.

Further I think if your players are dedicated RPers you won't need to force the mechanic of fear - they'll RP it. If they want to fight their phobia due to unusual circumstances I wouldn't hit them with -20. As a player I tend to resent such heavy handed tactics. Make the PC make a normal fear check (or at -2 for unfavorable circumstances). Leave the PCs some latitude on how they deal with undercooked steak 9when they have an aversion to raw meat).

My 2 cents

-Eric Gorman
#3
slivvy_gaidin
Oct 17, 2003 5:59:10 I thought -20 might be a bit much. Maybe -10.

My players are fairly okay at character interaction, but they aren't too good at character 'character', personality, theme and story. As such, I'd like to 'help' the phobias come into the game more and more. Besides, if I have a large penalty the characters are more likely to become panicked (but I see now that too large a phobia would result in too many horror saves being called upon).

The characters phobias aren't a result of failed madness saves. They just simply started the game with some randomly determined phobias (1 or 2).

I do like the short description you gave of CoC though. I'm going to have to work on bringing the PCs' characters personalities out. They're still used to playing standard FR and Greyhawke stuff, and aren't quite into playing out the fears and the reactions of their characters.

DM: "You awaken in the night to find yourself looking down the bleak, desolate rows of a run down graveyard. The tombstones and grave markers stand still and lifeless under the moonless sky. You have no recollection of every coming to this place, perhaps it is a dream? though you get the feeling that this place is very real indeed. The cold wind slowly begins to blow, chilling you through your armour. You hear a quiet scratching sound coming from somewhere in the graveyard. It starts to grow louder and louder; suddenly it appears to be coming from all around you. The ground of one of the nearby graves begins to move, and a decayed hand slowly digs itself from the earth"
Players: "So, do you guys want this flint and steel that I've been carrying around? How about these arrows? I don't us..."
DM: Guys, come one, you're in a graveyard.
Players: "Oh, right. Sorry- I draw my weapon and look for a tomb with a hand coming out of it. Do i see any zombies yet. How 'bout now? C'mon, yeah! Lets kill zombies!!!"
DM: *sigh*
#4
zombiegleemax
Oct 18, 2003 2:22:01 OOoofff. -10 is still *WAAAYY* too high IMO. Don't beat your players over the head with it. Of course I don't know what you are going to draw phobia's from. Trust me though, if its of spiders, graveyards, red meat, the dark, enclosed spaces or anything else the PCs are likly to run into often then you run the risk of crippling a PC.

Even giving a PC a 25% shot of "not functioning at their heroic best" will have a dramatic impact on playing style after the first blown check or two. Their reaction might still be: "dude I don't want to go to the graveyard, last time you saw zombies you hurled and left me to swing in the wind." But it will be better than "Charge!"

Massive penalties is just another form of railroading players, which they usually come to resent.

On the other hand having a starting phobia could be a big part of why the PCs are adventuring in the first place. Definately a potentially fun twist to character creation.

-Eric Gorman
#5
slivvy_gaidin
Oct 18, 2003 5:57:48 Hmm. Yeah, I see what you mean by large penalties crippling the players. How about -5? C'mon. Its only a small penalty. It wont kill them too much.

My players are currently afraid of:
Paladin- Poison
Fighter- Unknown people, Open spaces
Ranger- Plants (strange. he did already have the favoured enemy of plants, so it kind of makes sense)
Cleric- Unknown people, Snakes
Rogue (deceased)- Unknown people, Water

They seem to be a largely xenophobic group. They aren't natives to ravenloft, but it seems as though they'd fit right in a place like Barovia.

Having them afraid of unkown people is a hard one. I suppose a -20 to their fear checks would be a bit difficult; having them panick and run away from every second NPC they encounter.

Same with the agrophobic? (afraid of the open) character. Gets scared going outside?!

Alright. I like -5. -2 seems far too low for a phobia (essentially a life crippling fear), but I can understand anything more being too life crippling.

Water, snakes and poison are easy enough though.
#6
zombiegleemax
Oct 27, 2003 8:53:10 In those cases (unknown people, agoraphobia...) it seems like you should instead just apply the -20 if a fear check is called for normally while those apply (or whatever minus you settle on). So if an unknown person goes werewolf...or the Slime of Evil attacks you in an open field...
#7
slivvy_gaidin
Oct 27, 2003 18:14:58 Epicfetus- aha. I see. I like your suggestion.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 slivvy_gaidin Oct 16, 2003 20:46:00	My old DM has a list of character Phobias. We all liked the effects that they had in his game, so when I started running my game, we chose to use them again. Thing is, my game is in Ravenloft, and fear of stuff is quite a big factor. I was thinking of ways to handle the character phobias, and though about this: Phobia: ->A save vs fear is always required by a character with a phobia when ever they encounter their phobia (even if the situation wouldn't normally require a fear save) ->In addition, the character suffers a -20 penalty to their save vs fear roll when dealing with their phobie (i.e. it is 'practically impossible' to overcome the phobia) What do you think? I was also considering adding the statement to the fear and horror saves: ->Rangers add their favoured enemy bonus to their save vs fear and horror checks if the creature that caused the fear or horror check is one of their favoured enemies.
#2 zombiegleemax Oct 17, 2003 2:44:30	I think phobias (as a result of failed madness checks) is a great idea. The best examples I know of come from Call of Cthullu and all its bad things that happen as your sanity drains away. Like pulling all the pins out of a box of grenades while sobbing and gibbering in a dark corner as it drags its squalimous, flabby (mostly indestructible) body closer... BUT CoC is not IMO meant to support a long term campaign. Ravenloft is. Be careful not to overdue it or cripple your PCs. Ultimately this is still a heroic setting. As a result I wouldn't use madness checks except (1) where a (several?) horror check has already failed and the PCs continue to face the same thing - and the sistuation just ISN'T getting any better...or (2) where a PC comes mind to mind with some undead/abomination. Further I think if your players are dedicated RPers you won't need to force the mechanic of fear - they'll RP it. If they want to fight their phobia due to unusual circumstances I wouldn't hit them with -20. As a player I tend to resent such heavy handed tactics. Make the PC make a normal fear check (or at -2 for unfavorable circumstances). Leave the PCs some latitude on how they deal with undercooked steak 9when they have an aversion to raw meat). My 2 cents -Eric Gorman
#3 slivvy_gaidin Oct 17, 2003 5:59:10	I thought -20 might be a bit much. Maybe -10. My players are fairly okay at character interaction, but they aren't too good at character 'character', personality, theme and story. As such, I'd like to 'help' the phobias come into the game more and more. Besides, if I have a large penalty the characters are more likely to become panicked (but I see now that too large a phobia would result in too many horror saves being called upon). The characters phobias aren't a result of failed madness saves. They just simply started the game with some randomly determined phobias (1 or 2). I do like the short description you gave of CoC though. I'm going to have to work on bringing the PCs' characters personalities out. They're still used to playing standard FR and Greyhawke stuff, and aren't quite into playing out the fears and the reactions of their characters. DM: "You awaken in the night to find yourself looking down the bleak, desolate rows of a run down graveyard. The tombstones and grave markers stand still and lifeless under the moonless sky. You have no recollection of every coming to this place, perhaps it is a dream? though you get the feeling that this place is very real indeed. The cold wind slowly begins to blow, chilling you through your armour. You hear a quiet scratching sound coming from somewhere in the graveyard. It starts to grow louder and louder; suddenly it appears to be coming from all around you. The ground of one of the nearby graves begins to move, and a decayed hand slowly digs itself from the earth" Players: "So, do you guys want this flint and steel that I've been carrying around? How about these arrows? I don't us..." DM: Guys, come one, you're in a graveyard. Players: "Oh, right. Sorry- I draw my weapon and look for a tomb with a hand coming out of it. Do i see any zombies yet. How 'bout now? C'mon, yeah! Lets kill zombies!!!" DM: sigh
#4 zombiegleemax Oct 18, 2003 2:22:01	OOoofff. -10 is still WAAAYY too high IMO. Don't beat your players over the head with it. Of course I don't know what you are going to draw phobia's from. Trust me though, if its of spiders, graveyards, red meat, the dark, enclosed spaces or anything else the PCs are likly to run into often then you run the risk of crippling a PC. Even giving a PC a 25% shot of "not functioning at their heroic best" will have a dramatic impact on playing style after the first blown check or two. Their reaction might still be: "dude I don't want to go to the graveyard, last time you saw zombies you hurled and left me to swing in the wind." But it will be better than "Charge!" Massive penalties is just another form of railroading players, which they usually come to resent. On the other hand having a starting phobia could be a big part of why the PCs are adventuring in the first place. Definately a potentially fun twist to character creation. -Eric Gorman
#5 slivvy_gaidin Oct 18, 2003 5:57:48	Hmm. Yeah, I see what you mean by large penalties crippling the players. How about -5? C'mon. Its only a small penalty. It wont kill them too much. My players are currently afraid of: Paladin- Poison Fighter- Unknown people, Open spaces Ranger- Plants (strange. he did already have the favoured enemy of plants, so it kind of makes sense) Cleric- Unknown people, Snakes Rogue (deceased)- Unknown people, Water They seem to be a largely xenophobic group. They aren't natives to ravenloft, but it seems as though they'd fit right in a place like Barovia. Having them afraid of unkown people is a hard one. I suppose a -20 to their fear checks would be a bit difficult; having them panick and run away from every second NPC they encounter. Same with the agrophobic? (afraid of the open) character. Gets scared going outside?! Alright. I like -5. -2 seems far too low for a phobia (essentially a life crippling fear), but I can understand anything more being too life crippling. Water, snakes and poison are easy enough though.
#6 zombiegleemax Oct 27, 2003 8:53:10	In those cases (unknown people, agoraphobia...) it seems like you should instead just apply the -20 if a fear check is called for normally while those apply (or whatever minus you settle on). So if an unknown person goes werewolf...or the Slime of Evil attacks you in an open field...
#7 slivvy_gaidin Oct 27, 2003 18:14:58	Epicfetus- aha. I see. I like your suggestion.