From the looking and reading I've been doing over the past few days it would seem to me that elves are (slightly) taller than most humans (though thinner) in the world of Krynn.
You can find the best reference to this in either Soulforge or Brothers in Arms (I can't remember which) when one description of an elf says that he is tall and thin (like all of his race, etc).
Anyway, I've always liked that the elves of Krynn weren't the tiny creatures of other worlds...so what might be a better system of height and weight for them? I was thinking of using the system in the Forgotten Realms setting...where elves have the height of humans but the weight as listed for elves. Any thoughts?
And, yes, it matters to those of us who find it silly for elves to be short little things. lol I've always thought of elves as "tall and willowy" not "short and thin." And it seems Dragonlance agrees with me...and I recall now that even Dalamar is described as tall several times. Anyway, just want to hear some thoughts on the topic.
Krynnish elves have always been taller than the standard D&D variety, since 1st ed. I don't know why they seem to have decided to change all that.
Qualinesti are stated as averaging just under 5 feet in height, yet Laurana is listed at 5'6". I don't recall her towering over the entire Qualinesti people by more than half a foot. ;)
Porthios has been listed at 5'11", and my Kagonesti barbarian/ranger is an even 6 feet...and he's staying that way.
In general I'd say they average human height, minus an inch or two.
Pddisc, yes it does matter. I prefer that the people bringing us Dragonlance would stay consistent with the DL elves, not with the Core Elf Race in the Player’s Handbook. That goes for everything Dragonlance. Another example is how they slack with the Fifth Age sorcerers. They deserve their own set of “magic rules” to set them apart from the Wizards of High Sorcery. Look at Monte Cook’s Arcana Unearthed for inspiration. But they where either not ambitious enough or it was a business decision made to make Dragonlance more marketable for Hasbro and Sovereign Press. The end result is that 5th Age sorcerers are just now normal mages that cast more of the same magic.
Hell, I remember “Name” spells had no place in Krynn. Dwarves did not cast arcane magic (barring dark dwarves). The Gods of Magic had a clergy… and so on.
Sovereign Press should do Dragonlance how it was presented to us. Sure things have change, some for the best, some for the worst. But something’s never had to change.
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
The sad thing is this is a very old topic. I don’t see why going into 3rd Edition the Dragonlance design team decided to contradict just about every description of elven height given in Dragonlance novels (novels some of the designers wrote themselves!).
Well, I don't understand it either. I can remember discussions on the mailing list in the past about elven heights, and whether they were shorter or taller on average than humans.
I can't even remember which side I argued or anything.
So, unless I hear some good reason it has changed, then I'm going to use the FR system of human height for all elves and elven weight to represent their thinner frames.
Plus you can always win by saying it agrees with DL more than WotC, and *everyone* hates WotC.
Oh... wonder if I'll get censored?
The Elven height isn't the only inconsistency, I think. Compare Kender and Gully Dwarves - an awful weird picture. If I recall correctly, the Kender seem way to short, and the Gully Dwarves way too tall. There are probably even more, too, but they don't stick out in my mind - Except for maybe something with Gnomes.
Anyway, point is, the height is totally out of whack. So I've been improvising. I should look through my old Tales of the Lance boxed set to see if that seems more accurate. I'll let you folks know what I find, unless somebody beats me to it. ;)
As for kender and gully dwarf, they seem to be right on track with everything I've read...but I could be wrong as well.
He was in Qualinest... But it says generally "normal height of an elf"... I don't know if it means the 3 land races.. Or just Qualinest and Kagonesti... Or what... But hopefully it helped...
Oh as far as the gods of magic not having priests anymore, take a good look at the entries for the gods of magic in DL3e. You'll notice it states they do not have clerics and yet lists clerics alignments for them anyway. I found that comical.
Originally posted by Taskr36
Oh as far as the gods of magic not having priests anymore, take a good look at the entries for the gods of magic in DL3e. You'll notice it states they do not have clerics and yet lists clerics alignments for them anyway. I found that comical.
That was a very annoying little continuity error.
But I fixed that in my errata I did for the book (too bad it's unofficial) But, since it was unofficial...I could add certain little bias comments (but they are always marked as such when I did so).
However in both Dragonlance and other D&D fiction this is very rarely referred to, in fact quite the opposite, I can’t recall any mention of an Elf being called “short”.
Likewise, in almost all of the artwork (both Dragonlance and other D&D) they appear at least average human height as well, often taller, except the players handbook type pictures where they are deliberately compared to humans and other races.
From Weis and Hickman for example all the descriptions imply that the Elves were tall, of course we are never actually told how tall the characters are (as it would make rather weird reading), however all the analogies and reference to grace and slight build(“like a willow tree bending in the breeze…”) kind implies a certain association to height. The character of elves also seems to fit better with them being tall, not entirely sure why, maybe its due to associating height with maturity or something (And in case anyone takes some sort of offence to this I’m 5’5” or so myself :D )
What’s also odd is that just about every other Fantasy setting has tall elves, for example LOTR.
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
Brimstone, Sovereign Press should take your work, do some editing, and make it official. At least you did the errata. Something that’s needed and much neglected at the time. It seems that’s do to low personnel at Sovereign Press I hear.
They can't...it's a Wizard's product, so only they can do an official errata. (so, don't hold your breath)
As for mine...I've almost finished the AoM errata (yeah...I've been taking my sweet time on this one). That'll get finished over the Holiday break (I'm taking a 2 week vacation woo hoo!) and I'll get Version 1.1 of the DLCS errata completed and sent to the Nexus guys as well (it's incorporating the suggestions I was given over the past few months on it).
So, most likely early January for v1.1 of the DLCS and hopefully the AoM one will be out about the same time.
Originally posted by Illithidbix
From Weis and Hickman for example all the descriptions imply that the Elves were tall, of course we are never actually told how tall the characters are
Actually in the Tales of the Lance box set it lists the actual heights for Gilthanas 5'8, Laurana 5'6, adn Serinda Elderwood 5'9. Also Porthios is often mentioned as being 6' in the stories meaning either all the elves we read about are freaks with severe pituitary disorders, or the writers of the gaming material have to pay closer attention to the novels when designing races instead of simply mirroring standard D&D.
However as it is the heights given in all the Dragonlance Character Profiles I've seen seem to agree with the point I was making about Elves generally being at least human height.
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
The sad thing is this is a very old topic. I don’t see why going into 3rd Edition the Dragonlance design team decided to contradict just about every description of elven height given in Dragonlance novels (novels some of the designers wrote themselves!). I remember the Tales of the Lance box-set listed elves heights at about 5ft as well, giving the impression that they were taller. Dragonlance doesn’t have the best record for novel products matching up with the gaming products. This is weird, since the game came first.
The Dragonlance Monstrous Compendiums from 2nd Ed. listed elves as being 5 1/2 - 6 feet high, I believe. But there were no height/weight charts. And the Tales of the Lance Boxed set then just recycled the height/weight charts from the PHB, which completely contradicted the Monstrous Compendium and all the novels.
Banshee