How to become a proxy?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

saurstalk

Dec 08, 2003 14:18:01
Okay, first, I think I'm talking about proxies - people who died in the service of their gods that are brought to the home plane of their gods to serve as "direct" agents of those gods.

That being said:

Recently, following a vicious battle, a NPC paladin of good repute fell. The group has moved on and the adventure would allow for his surprise return. But I don't want to "just" bring him back in as a surprise NPC. I want to alter his character stats to represent him better as a proxy. I just don't know how ... or whether I even need to do so. (It seems to me that a proxy would get some unique traits to a being in that status.)

What say you?
#2

zombiegleemax

Dec 08, 2003 15:15:45
If I remember correctly, a proxy doesn't even have to be dead or a petitionner. It can simply be anyone that the Power felt would be fine for the job.

A book, Hollowed Grounds, I think, had a chapter on proxies.
*I checked, it is On Hollowed Grounds indeed*

There are 3 ranks of proxies, temporary, lesser and greater.

Temporary proxies are, well, temporary and don't receive much strength. They're more tested than anything else, and if they're worth it, they'll probably make it to Lesser or Greater status.

"Lesser proxies are reshaped into other forms." (p.22)
They serve the power in various ways, but they're not the top-notch, all-mighty bloods that greater proxies can be.

Greater proxies are some of the most dangerous bashers in the multiverse. It's said they meet face-to-face with the power they serve, and receive great gifts for their accomplishments and devotion.

Proxies receive gifts and powers from their, well, Power. What are they and what are their limits? It's your call (the DM), because it all depends on the power, and proxies should always be delt with on case by case basis. Gods grant abilities that match their portfolios. Granted powers are linked to the proxies history.
Here are some examples given, by portfolio:

Courage: Create aura of courage, remove fear, inspire bravery
Justice: Know the crimes of any being, use shocking grasp at will, but only on those that deserve punishment.
Protection: Invulnerability to normal weapons, mystical shield, use all wall of spells.

I hoped it helped you.
All in all, the form and powers of proxy depends on the God, and, ultimately, you.
#3

zombiegleemax

Dec 08, 2003 15:30:58
Proxies, as said, can be living as well as petitioners. In fact, there are at least as many (if not more) living proxies than petitioner proxies.

The methods for selecting a proxy vary from deity to deity, as Brun already said. Good-aligned deities are more likely to have proxies and some good deities have several proxies. Evil powers on the other hand tend to hoard their power and are extremely picky about who they give that power to and how much they give. Thus, evil powers in general have fewer proxies.

The only direct incident I've read about with someone becoming a proxy was in Tymora's Luck, a Forgotten Realms novel that used Sigil and other Planes. Walinda, the evil priestess, became a proxy of Beshaba by making sure she was the priestess closest to Beshaba when Beshaba was attacked. The Maid of Misfortune grabbed Walinda and took her to Gehenna, made Walinda a proxy and ordered her to wait for Beshaba's return.
#4

saurstalk

Dec 08, 2003 17:08:29
Let me give you a little background on the guy, with hopes you can shoot some ideas my way.

He started out as a young, self-righteous, pompous paladin of Heironeous. (We treat the standard deities as the "old gods" in Faerun, with small churches still worshipping them.)

Anyhow, over time, he's matured and even taken a wife. Unfortunately, he began to be plagued with nightmares where he assumed evil guises. He began to question whether his god abandoned him. Later, he was informed by another that the dreams were due to his being a Bhaalspawn. This relieved much of his stress and allowed him to cope with his nightmares. Finding balance again, and back on the pure track of Heironeous, he joined a troop invading a Zhent stronghold and was cut down. As a Bhaalspawn, he could not be raised. However, Heironeous took interest in this gallant paladin and chose to draw him forth from the netherworld as a direct servant beneath him.

Likely, all Bhaalspawn essence has been stripped. Possibly, he will have been remade in something more fitting Heironeous's champion. (Deva perhaps?) What I want to do is keep much of his character and his successes (feats, attributes, etc.), but give him a semblance of metamorphosis. This is where I get stuck.

I could always keep all his paladin levels and add a first level (or more) deva template from Savage Species. It's reverse of what the book calls for, but it might work. (And he couldn't advance as a paladin until his deva classes matched his paladin classes.)
#5

zombiegleemax

Dec 08, 2003 18:04:15
The one thing that all proxies share in common: They are utterly devoted to their god's goals. Proxies are almost like avatars in a sense, in that all other desires are subsumed by the desire to be exactly like their god in ideals.
#6

kilamar

Dec 08, 2003 18:10:17
I do not think someone like him would become Proxy.
He could become a planar guardian or an officer in BIG H´s eternal army.

Kilamar
#7

zombiegleemax

Dec 08, 2003 18:41:33
What you have done with the plot sounds good, i like it.

maybe add the celestial template or half-celestial, or petitioner (although i don't like the petitioner very much). This would allow him to look mostly the same, with some minor cosmetic changes (glowing eyes, halo of light shining from his body, wings, that sort of thing). Also, it provides him with "a little of his dieties power."

that work for you?
#8

primemover003

Dec 08, 2003 19:01:13
Wholeheartedly agree Templates are the way to go.
#9

Shemeska_the_Marauder

Dec 08, 2003 19:41:44
Good stuff there Brun, beat the rest of us to the punch. ;)

And Proxy's are literal extensions of a deity in many ways. They're technically free willed, but they're so close to their god that their will is oftentimes the gods will as well. As such this makes for difficulties in having PC's become proxies. They're like chosen of a deity, except chosen simply tend to be free willed devotees of a power that exemplify the god's principles. Chosen are left usually to their own devices and to serve the goals of their deity as they personally see fit. Proxies on the other hand are directly told by their deity what is required of them. Proxies are direct servants of a god where chosen are indirect servants.

That said, there are actual examples of fallen proxies. In Planescape, and I forget where actually, there was a proxy of Hades that abandoned his deity.

Anthraxus, the previous Oinoloth of Khin-Oin the Wasting Tower, is alive and quite literally shopping himself as a potential proxy for a number of lower planar deities. None have trusted him enough to date to actually invest him with a portion of their power though. Probably wise on their part...
#10

zombiegleemax

Dec 09, 2003 4:03:45
If you have access to the Book of Exhalted Deeds then it contains the Saint template which is a good place to start when creating a proxy of a good aligned god.
#11

saurstalk

Dec 09, 2003 12:10:48
Originally posted by Togashi Kabara
What you have done with the plot sounds good, i like it.

maybe add the celestial template or half-celestial, or petitioner (although i don't like the petitioner very much). This would allow him to look mostly the same, with some minor cosmetic changes (glowing eyes, halo of light shining from his body, wings, that sort of thing). Also, it provides him with "a little of his dieties power."

that work for you?

The celestial and half-celestial templates are available to me. Given that the PCs won't meet up with him until much later in the game, such templates won't upset game balance too much. That being said, play-wise, a half-celestial would work best, as the absence of what once was Bhaal's essence cannot be filled. The character will remain powerful and pumped, but will sense a feeling of incompleteness, knowing that he owes much to his deity, but that he has lost much just the same, including his wife and unborn child.

I'd be interested in learning more abou the petitioner, but don't know where to find it.
#12

zombiegleemax

Dec 09, 2003 14:48:25
You don't want to give him the petitioner template, trust me. It's in the Manual of the Planes.
#13

saurstalk

Dec 09, 2003 15:31:57
Originally posted by nick012000
You don't want to give him the petitioner template, trust me. It's in the Manual of the Planes.

Okay, my Manual of the Planes book is at home. What's wrong with the Petitioner template?
#14

zombiegleemax

Dec 09, 2003 15:36:44
It takes away like all ailities and strengths. Its really not useful for an actual servant of a god, just little peons. I believe Deities and Demigods has an explanation of the Proxy system, but my book is at home and I can't get to it for a few weeks.
#15

bob_the_efreet

Dec 09, 2003 18:04:55
Originally posted by Primus, the One and Prime
I believe Deities and Demigods has an explanation of the Proxy system, but my book is at home and I can't get to it for a few weeks.

It does. I don't remember it off-hand (and I was looking in a friends DDG), but it has to do with the power actually transferring a small amount of divine rank to the proxy.
#16

zombiegleemax

Dec 09, 2003 21:58:14
people who died that are brought to the home plane of their gods.

That's a petitioner. Once you die you go to the plane of your alignment. All abilities and stats are wiped as are most of your memories because...well your dead.