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Psionics and the Planes

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
brknstar
Dec 16, 2003 17:57:12 I've never been huge into Psionics...no real reason other than that I felt they were too much of a sci-fi trope as opposed to fantasy.

But now that I'm getting back into Planescape again, I'm finding I love the idea of Psionics on the Planes.

My question then is this: what kind of rules are people using for Psionics whilst the "Expanded Psionics Handbook" is still on its way from Wizards, after the change to 3.5? Also, has anyone really made use of books like Mindscapes, which introduced a different Psionics combat system?

I'm curious to hear about any changes, house rules, and experiences with Psionics before I delve in and try to run a dedicated PS campaign in 3.5 Edition!
#2
factol_rhys_dup
Dec 16, 2003 21:46:18 One idea that I read about somewhere was that psionics cost more depending on how different the character's alignment is from the Outer Plane he's on. The rationale was that, since psionics come from thei mind, if an Outer Plane is composed of a differing alignment, it will be resisting and trying to suppress the character's thoughts. Thus, psionics cost more. On Outer Planes matching the character's alignment better, the environment is conducive to the character's thought patterns already, so reality is more easily modified. On the Astral, psionics should be through the roof, especially Metacreativity. Maybe a huge bonus of effective manifester level. The Inner Planes, being composed of physical material, and not at all from thought, could have penalties assigned to them, since it's harder for your mind to control reality.

I guess you could say that psionics are like an odd version of belief controlling reality on the Outer Planes. With psionics, energy comes from a character's mind and body and is used to achieve different results. One take on it is that the character is believing he can do the things, and forces his will on reality. The Prime Material Plane, though, is much less mentally malleable than the Outer Planes, so it takes a much more concerted effort by a more unique individual.

This is all weird stuff, so feel free to mock, laugh, or throw eggs.
#3
zombiegleemax
Dec 17, 2003 0:04:57 i house rule that they work were ever you are, subject to the same restictions as magic (illusions don't work on mechanus, etc). Never thought about limiting them by alingment, but that does make sense. i feel that because they are internal, not requiring ambient energy, they work regardless of conditions.

my house rules on psionics in general - eliminate the entire combat system, they get bous feats 1/4 levels (1,4,8,12,16,20). this is becasue i dont like the combat system. i havent read mindscapes, but it sounds good.
#4
MephitJames
Dec 17, 2003 16:10:48 I think alignment clashes would be a big part of planar psionics, though maybe not just penalties. I would say penalties associated with opposed alignments (i.e. LG character on chaotic and/or evil plane) nothing associated with "middle" alignments (LG character on non-good lawful or non-lawful good planes) and bonuses when the alignments match (LG character on LG planes).
I don't know how things would work on the Elemental Planes (oddly enough) but I'd say nothing drastic. There's still belief power there, since there are still factions. There's a feat in PS3e material that lets you use metacreativity powers in the Ethereal, that should work on the Inner Planes too.
I'd say the Astral makes your metacreations stronger and slightly improved.
#5
zombiegleemax
Dec 21, 2003 5:24:53 Hmmm... perhaps the Outer Planes have the Enhanced Psionics and Impeded Psionics planar traits? And as for the Inner Planes, using the default Planescape cosmology, they simply wouldn't work unless you had the feat if they rely on the Astral.
#6
zombiegleemax
Dec 21, 2003 5:37:07 What Factol Rhys has pointed out makes perfect sense to me. This would be the way to go, if I were to include psions in my campaigns.

About the Inner Planes: In my opionion, they are still more malleable than, say, the PMP, and therefore should provide either hardly any improvement on psionics or even have positive and negative effects annul themselves.
#7
zombiegleemax
Dec 21, 2003 5:49:40 I would take it one a plane by plane basis myself. Granted, its much more work, but certain planes may lend themselves to greater use of psionics (limbo, astral, individual illithid realms) while others inheirently impede psionics (ysguard, mechanus).
#8
MephitJames
Dec 21, 2003 11:22:28
Originally posted by Rr'ka
About the Inner Planes: In my opionion, they are still more malleable than, say, the PMP, and therefore should provide either hardly any improvement on psionics or even have positive and negative effects annul themselves.

The Elementals are hardly malleable, berk, especially by something as puny as thought. Sure there's plenty of flames on Fire to hurl at a body with your mind, but the flames don't like being pushed around (trust me). The Elementals are full of raw energy, but the sodding point of them is that the energy wants to do what it naturally does. Earth wants to crush every little tunnel some basher makes in it, Smoke wants to choke and char every speck of matter that comes into it, Radiance wants to flash-burn everything to sparkling motes. Point is, when you're mindbending on an Elemental Plane, you've got the whole sodding plane working against you. It's the same case on the Prime, of course, but all the elements are so mixed up there that they generally cancel. Still, you can't scoop up some fire and hurl it, you need to force it with your mind (manifester checks and all that blex), it'd be the same on the Inner Planes.
Here's what I've settled on as "house rules" for the Inner Planes: Everything works the same as on the Prime except if it requires an element that's not there (a mindflame power on Earth, for instance) when it is impeded (you're on a neighboring plane) or it's canceled (you're too far). For the record, I think quasi- and paraelemental planes would have two elements/energies present.
#9
moogle001
Dec 22, 2003 23:58:53 I've always wanted to make psionics have a more interesting relation with the planes, in much the same way magic did in 2e, but you always run into problems of balance and rewarding psions for staying on certain planes. That's the problem with the alignment based bonuses/penalties.

At least I shall try to make some interesting effects happen on the Astral, since its pretty much THE plane of psionics, but we'll see.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 brknstar Dec 16, 2003 17:57:12	I've never been huge into Psionics...no real reason other than that I felt they were too much of a sci-fi trope as opposed to fantasy. But now that I'm getting back into Planescape again, I'm finding I love the idea of Psionics on the Planes. My question then is this: what kind of rules are people using for Psionics whilst the "Expanded Psionics Handbook" is still on its way from Wizards, after the change to 3.5? Also, has anyone really made use of books like Mindscapes, which introduced a different Psionics combat system? I'm curious to hear about any changes, house rules, and experiences with Psionics before I delve in and try to run a dedicated PS campaign in 3.5 Edition!
#2 factol_rhys_dup Dec 16, 2003 21:46:18	One idea that I read about somewhere was that psionics cost more depending on how different the character's alignment is from the Outer Plane he's on. The rationale was that, since psionics come from thei mind, if an Outer Plane is composed of a differing alignment, it will be resisting and trying to suppress the character's thoughts. Thus, psionics cost more. On Outer Planes matching the character's alignment better, the environment is conducive to the character's thought patterns already, so reality is more easily modified. On the Astral, psionics should be through the roof, especially Metacreativity. Maybe a huge bonus of effective manifester level. The Inner Planes, being composed of physical material, and not at all from thought, could have penalties assigned to them, since it's harder for your mind to control reality. I guess you could say that psionics are like an odd version of belief controlling reality on the Outer Planes. With psionics, energy comes from a character's mind and body and is used to achieve different results. One take on it is that the character is believing he can do the things, and forces his will on reality. The Prime Material Plane, though, is much less mentally malleable than the Outer Planes, so it takes a much more concerted effort by a more unique individual. This is all weird stuff, so feel free to mock, laugh, or throw eggs.
#3 zombiegleemax Dec 17, 2003 0:04:57	i house rule that they work were ever you are, subject to the same restictions as magic (illusions don't work on mechanus, etc). Never thought about limiting them by alingment, but that does make sense. i feel that because they are internal, not requiring ambient energy, they work regardless of conditions. my house rules on psionics in general - eliminate the entire combat system, they get bous feats 1/4 levels (1,4,8,12,16,20). this is becasue i dont like the combat system. i havent read mindscapes, but it sounds good.
#4 MephitJames Dec 17, 2003 16:10:48	I think alignment clashes would be a big part of planar psionics, though maybe not just penalties. I would say penalties associated with opposed alignments (i.e. LG character on chaotic and/or evil plane) nothing associated with "middle" alignments (LG character on non-good lawful or non-lawful good planes) and bonuses when the alignments match (LG character on LG planes). I don't know how things would work on the Elemental Planes (oddly enough) but I'd say nothing drastic. There's still belief power there, since there are still factions. There's a feat in PS3e material that lets you use metacreativity powers in the Ethereal, that should work on the Inner Planes too. I'd say the Astral makes your metacreations stronger and slightly improved.
#5 zombiegleemax Dec 21, 2003 5:24:53	Hmmm... perhaps the Outer Planes have the Enhanced Psionics and Impeded Psionics planar traits? And as for the Inner Planes, using the default Planescape cosmology, they simply wouldn't work unless you had the feat if they rely on the Astral.
#6 zombiegleemax Dec 21, 2003 5:37:07	What Factol Rhys has pointed out makes perfect sense to me. This would be the way to go, if I were to include psions in my campaigns. About the Inner Planes: In my opionion, they are still more malleable than, say, the PMP, and therefore should provide either hardly any improvement on psionics or even have positive and negative effects annul themselves.
#7 zombiegleemax Dec 21, 2003 5:49:40	I would take it one a plane by plane basis myself. Granted, its much more work, but certain planes may lend themselves to greater use of psionics (limbo, astral, individual illithid realms) while others inheirently impede psionics (ysguard, mechanus).
#8 MephitJames Dec 21, 2003 11:22:28	Originally posted by Rr'ka About the Inner Planes: In my opionion, they are still more malleable than, say, the PMP, and therefore should provide either hardly any improvement on psionics or even have positive and negative effects annul themselves. The Elementals are hardly malleable, berk, especially by something as puny as thought. Sure there's plenty of flames on Fire to hurl at a body with your mind, but the flames don't like being pushed around (trust me). The Elementals are full of raw energy, but the sodding point of them is that the energy wants to do what it naturally does. Earth wants to crush every little tunnel some basher makes in it, Smoke wants to choke and char every speck of matter that comes into it, Radiance wants to flash-burn everything to sparkling motes. Point is, when you're mindbending on an Elemental Plane, you've got the whole sodding plane working against you. It's the same case on the Prime, of course, but all the elements are so mixed up there that they generally cancel. Still, you can't scoop up some fire and hurl it, you need to force it with your mind (manifester checks and all that blex), it'd be the same on the Inner Planes. Here's what I've settled on as "house rules" for the Inner Planes: Everything works the same as on the Prime except if it requires an element that's not there (a mindflame power on Earth, for instance) when it is impeded (you're on a neighboring plane) or it's canceled (you're too far). For the record, I think quasi- and paraelemental planes would have two elements/energies present.
#9 moogle001 Dec 22, 2003 23:58:53	I've always wanted to make psionics have a more interesting relation with the planes, in much the same way magic did in 2e, but you always run into problems of balance and rewarding psions for staying on certain planes. That's the problem with the alignment based bonuses/penalties. At least I shall try to make some interesting effects happen on the Astral, since its pretty much THE plane of psionics, but we'll see.