And what about the Sorcerer-Kings?
Is there a 3ed version of those stats somewhere?
Thx.
there is a bunch of details in the revised campaign set, City by the silt sea, Valley of dust and fire, Beyond the prism pentad and a little bit scattered int he other books... like the city-state supplements.
and no there is no 3e stats on the SKs so far (i made my own stats, so they fit MY vision of them... as Epic lvl dragons with lvl 20 Defiler and Psion casting abilities. Some might say thats way overpowered, but i like my villians strong and almost invincible)
as my buddy and fellow DM once said "I dont play to make it exciting for the players... I play to WIN!"
Short answer is: No, there are not really stats of all the champions anywhere. Here are your best bets, though:
Beyond the Prism Pentad has stats for Hamanu, Nibenay, and Lalalai Puy, but they're 2e versions and not that tough, in my opinion. Even so, it's a good place to start.
The Wanderer's Chronical had a list of all the Champions (SKs) who survived to modern times but is pretty clear that there might be other champions out there that were responsible for taking out other races not listed in the 13.
Originally posted by 16th Champion
16 if you count me.
Stop that. Stop that. You're being silly.
Originally posted by Afghan
It has, on occasion, occurred to me that the pyreen were also a race created by the Pristine Tower. Now the Pyreen Murrain, he is going to be a bit deck hard.
Why do you say that...?? Have I miss something??
Originally posted by flip
Stop that. Stop that. You're being silly.
You knew! You knew that by saying that you would attract the mighty Silly Frog. Do attempt to use a part of the Oracle familiar name for your pleasure! :D
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
The Wanderer's Chronical had a list of all the Champions (SKs) who survived to modern times but is pretty clear that there might be other champions out there that were responsible for taking out other races not listed in the 13.
Rise and Fall of A Sorcerer-King said there once scores of Champions. That means at least 21.
Originally posted by megamania
Rise and Fall of A Sorcerer-King said there once scores of Champions. That means at least 21.
I counted 21 champions produced that filled-in 18 positions (1st champion, 2nd...).
:pile:
And Denning once said that there were other champions, in the past, he didn't talk about in his novels. And there are lost champions like Daskinor and Oronis that were later created from the ground up in the Revised Edition. There might be others.
Thanks.
15th champion pdf
So which races belong on Athas and would have had a champion assigned to them?
Any races common to D&D that aren't represented on Athas, and not listed under an assigned champion?
Pure conjecture and speculation here: I just want to hear what people think.
So this would include any goblinoid from the MM or any other source out there.
Let's start by listing the 'known' intelligent races that have no Champions (humanoid it seems is the only requirement, not simply intelligent monsters like id fiends and such or planar creatures like psurlons). (btw, I know I'm missing a few so feel free to chime in).
(from the DS MC)
Belgoi
B'rohg
Bog Wader
Hej-kin
Pyreen
Scrab
Silt Runner
T'chowb
Gith
Feylaar
Nikaal
Pakubrazi
Slig
Ssuran
Tarek
(from the encounter lists)
Ettercap
Cyclops
Ettin
Hatori
Kenku
Yuan-ti
Maezel
So . . . most of these seem like they would have been mutations of one kind or another (those like the T'luk are not listed since they are described as mutations already).
Ssuran, nikaal, and silt runners could have been Pristine Tower mutations of either pterran or lizard men. Scrabs could have originated from kreen, as with pakubrazi. I like the idea of b'rohg being a created type of war machine. Feylaar seem like a mutation of gorrilla. Bog waders, belgoi, maezel, kenku, and yuan-ti are likely mutaitons of humans or elves while hej-kin a prime for dwarven descendentry. T'chowb probably came as a mutation of some smaller race like halflings. Cyclops and ettin derived from giants. Ettercaps and hatori are also likely some kind of mutation.
That only leaves gith, sligs, and of course, pyreen. Granted, this is just my take on things.
Gith are devolved githyanki, if you go with that assumption, and therefore would probably fall after the Cleansing Wars.
Sligs could easily be a new race from the Pristine Tower.
Pyreen are so few in number and so secretive that there was probably no Champion for them, or if there was, said Champion was probably killed and therefore failed. I think I'm starting to like the latter better, they were pressed enough, on the verge of extinction, to band together and strike back at the Champion assaulting them. This could lead up to why they are so few in number and so secretive now.
That or you could say the Pyreen were hands off by orders from Rajaat since he probably put them in charge to watch his precious rhulisti pets, now the rhul-thaun, hence why they continue to do so today.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Pyreen are so few in number and so secretive that there was probably no Champion for them,
Rajaat was a Pyreen. Therefore, their secritiveness is not protection on that front.
or if there was, said Champion was probably killed and therefore failed. I think I'm starting to like the latter better, they were pressed enough, on the verge of extinction, to band together and strike back at the Champion assaulting them. This could lead up to why they are so few in number and so secretive now.
Or, it could be that Rajaat wanted them for himself.
That or you could say the Pyreen were hands off by orders from Rajaat since he probably put them in charge to watch his precious rhulisti pets, now the rhul-thaun, hence why they continue to do so today.
Errr ... @#$ no. I refuse to even think about beliving that the Pyreen would have actually worked with Rajaat once he revealed himself for what he was (probably around the time the Preserver Jihad started ...)
It just runs too deeply contradictory to their nature. That, and it dramatically reduces the impact of "Twisted Pyreen" as the rationale for Rajaat ... if they willingly went along with any part of his plans, it kind of implies that it could have been any one of them.
Originally posted by flip
Or, it could be that Rajaat wanted them for himself.
I was thinking that he was saving the humans for himself, but that could work too. Especially if you buy the fact that Hammanu was meant to be the Champion vs. humans.
Errr ... @#$ no. I refuse to even think about beliving that the Pyreen would have actually worked with Rajaat once he revealed himself for what he was (probably around the time the Preserver Jihad started ...)
I don't buy it either, but it's another possibility.
It just runs too deeply contradictory to their nature. That, and it dramatically reduces the impact of "Twisted Pyreen" as the rationale for Rajaat ... if they willingly went along with any part of his plans, it kind of implies that it could have been any one of them.
Maybe they were the defense of the rhulisti/rhul-thuan against
Rajaat, I guess that could be another option.
That's all I'm doing at this point, just throwing options out there.
Btw, wasn't sure if you were aware or not flip, but your site is dead in the water...
Minotaurs- master builders with elaborate courtyards
Tortoise- (Mystra race) marsh residents
Merfolk- Lived in the original sea. Killed by destruction of Sea
Yuan-ti- not killed off but driven far away...planned on bringing them back
Doppleganger- (sort of) required a Champion of Stealth
Dryad- killed as forests destroyed
Gnoll- Master rangers of plains. Driven away to the west
and I think I included Sahaguin but I', not sure.
My opinion is similar to Flip's: I think Rajaat was the "champion" that was going to kill the pyreen, and himself, last, after he had cleansed Athas of everything but halflings, kreen, and platypuses.
Just seeing if you were paying attention. I also agree with Nyt on the nature of the other critters. Huh, seems like there are a lot of them left that don't fall into the category of Magical Creation or Pristine Mutation.
Mega - no dopplegangers, unfortunately, says so in the original rules book, but you can have a pakubrazi instead. I'd go for merfolk, though, that makes plenty of sense and the sea of silt would have largely wiped them out.
The other problem might be that several were lumped into categories. Take "Goblin Death" for example; does that mean "only goblins," or would hobgoblins fall under that, too? If you lump those two together, maybe it's "Goblinoids" and not just "Goblins." You get the picture. As for the Dryad, I actually made an Athasian dryad that was to be the centerpiece in the DS: Green Age (or Cleansing Wars) world that I'm working on.
Looked kind of like a cross between a porcupine and a woman. Big hands. Smelled like cabbage. Okay, they didn't smell like cabbage, but they definitely had a DS flavor to them.
...some day I'll finish that site.
Most of the Champions had a "signiture spell" that was unique to them that was especially deadly to their race of genocide. Hamanu could cause the Troll's blood to erupt into flame was one graphically portraited. The Champion I had created for this created race had to be more stealthy (thus unique in and itself) to win.
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
Big hands. Smelled like cabbage. Okay, they didn't smell like cabbage, but they definitely had a DS flavor to them.
...some day I'll finish that site.
Sounds like grandma
Including this now extinct race in minor to many of the changes I have been recently doing to customize the world tro my tastes.
If things had gone as planned, there would only have been humans, halflings, and kreen left. That would have left Rajaat to be the only one left to clean up his war machine of Champions and defilers. Of course, I like to think that everything that has happened so far is still going according to Rajaat's plan (yes, including his imprisonment).
Originally posted by Mach2.5
Sorry about the hatori thing, I was thinking they were something entirely different, but anyway . . .
No biggie, I assumed you looked at it wrong or something, hehe.
If things had gone as planned, there would only have been humans, halflings, and kreen left. That would have left Rajaat to be the only one left to clean up his war machine of Champions and defilers. Of course, I like to think that everything that has happened so far is still going according to Rajaat's plan (yes, including his imprisonment).
You know, that makes me wonder. It took all the champions to take down Rajaat the first time, and it wasn't even a fatality, it was a temporary keep him out of the world thing, he gets freed, and he's a big bad
that catches them by surprise and takes out a few of them along with changing one of the major regions of Athas into a constant steaming room.Whether he planned the second trapping who knows, though if you go by Lynn Abbey's RaFoaDK, he did escape again, but this time in cloud form (I think), and only big bad, teacher pet Hammanu was able to take him down this time around.
Things that make you go hmmm.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Btw, wasn't sure if you were aware or not flip, but your site is dead in the water...
Yeah. little misunderstanding with the Comcast.
for the time being, http://68.49.107.95/ will get you there. My DNS records should be updated sometime RSN.
Everyone, for future reference. When you move, make sure that you update account numbers with your bank's bill-paying service. Corps aren't all that bright.
*grumble*
Just a strange thought I had in the 90's when running a molding press on 3rd shift.
Originally posted by megamania
At one point I convinced myself that Rajaat had become one with the world and linked directly to the water side of it. Each time he "returns" it is a form of moisture. It was actually his/her imprisonment that dried up the world.
Just a strange thought I had in the 90's when running a molding press on 3rd shift.
And they called me crazy with my Mindë (Essence of life on Athas) theory.:P
Originally posted by megamania
When Darksun was dropped from publication, I decided it was MY world (which it always was afterall) and tweeked it as I saw fit. Including new races that were wiped out 100+ of years ago seemed fine to me.
Including this now extinct race in minor to many of the changes I have been recently doing to customize the world tro my tastes.
My sentiments exactly there are approximately 38 Champions all with there own agendas and City-States