Weird Idea

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

choleric_psion

Jan 15, 2004 19:21:30
I'm sure many of you have thought of this but it's about time somebody put it out into the open (or put it out againg just in case there was an earlier thread like this)... but seriously, how many of you have ever thought of creating a race that was a crossbreed between celestials and fiends? In the strangest of circumstances it would be possible. Especially in Sigil.

Here's how it would start...
A polymorphed celestial and fiend, both are in some type of humaniod form, are spy missions or something like that. Anyways they are at a tavern and happy hour starts up...well lets just say they get completely tanked and one thing leads to another. Frankly, that would be one of those strange circumstances that it just may be possible under.

#2

zombiegleemax

Jan 15, 2004 19:25:50
Remember the rule: Celestials and fiends hate each other and attack on site.

Remember the other rule: All rules have exceptions.
#3

ashramry

Jan 15, 2004 19:49:23
the adventure The Deva Spark almost touched on this idea.


as an aside. everyone knows that depending on the gender of the parent demon you end up being either an alufeind, or cambion. But what are the offspring of devils with mortals called?

ashy
#4

Shemeska_the_Marauder

Jan 15, 2004 20:20:04
I don't recall them ever mentioning a specific name for a half-fiend of Baatezu or Yugoloth heritage. In fact I'm not sure I ever remember any half fiends of that heritage being mentioned. I recall lots of them from Tanar'ri descent, but onlt tieflings on the 'zu and 'loth sides. Wierd.

I just call 'em half fiends for lack of a better name.

*cough* "Not that I'll be siring anything anytime soon. Not that I'd tell anyone if I was. And don't believe those rumors about Kylie the Tout being my kid or my grandkid. Stinking gossips..."
#5

zombiegleemax

Jan 15, 2004 22:25:31
If i'm correct, in Planes of Conflict, there is a site (in one uf the three upper planes) that serves as a hide-out to such an odd couple. I'll go check...

Right, It's on Karasuthra, the third layer ofthe Beastlands. A place called the Labyrinth of Fiery Doom.No one knows the dark of it. An Agathinon and an Erinyes baatezu, Janarr and Nalura, respectively, met on a prime world. There, they fell in love, before realizing what the other was (they were i other forms). When they realized what the otherwas, they fled, knowing fully well that they would be doomed by their respective race. They came up with a story that janarr is a great red wyrm and Nalura a Succubus, so they would be left alone.

How would these beings fall inlove with each other? Nalura seduced a paragon of purity, and janarr turned a baatezu's lustful nature to true love.

Oh, and they're expecting their first child...
#6

zombiegleemax

Jan 15, 2004 23:05:18
Check out http://www.mimir.net/monsters/arthurea.shtml

This is one possibility of a Fiend/Celestial crossbreed(Most likely Janarr and Nalura's child will end up as something like this)

PS. Everyone make sure and check out my new Sect, the Campaigners, I think you'll find them a neat conscept and a great new addition to any 3nd edition Planescape Campaign
#7

incenjucar

Jan 16, 2004 0:37:53
This is one of those things that probably would have come more in to play if the setting didn't get axed.

Gotta love that cute little love story, though.

*ponders Shemmy with a motherly glow, and a third trimester belly*
#8

Shemeska_the_Marauder

Jan 16, 2004 1:07:54
Originally posted by Incenjucar
*ponders Shemmy with a motherly glow, and a third trimester belly*

*SHUDDER*
#9

incenjucar

Jan 16, 2004 2:29:59
*steeples his fingers together and lifts a brow, smirking wide enough to show a fang-like canine tooth*

"How fortuitous that the lady is naturally resistant to fire."

;)

On a more serious note, one could easily to an entire book on planar crossbreeds (And, hopefully, without the blunt 'throw on a template!' thing.... I can see two half templates that MERGE, but simply adding to a race is just... feh.
#10

choleric_psion

Jan 16, 2004 6:43:07
I'm pretty new to planescape. Partly because I started playing D&D at the very end of second ed. and right on the threshold of third. The books I do have were downloaded for by a friend of mine. So the real question is whats an alufeind, or cambion?
#11

sildatorak

Jan 16, 2004 11:25:12
Originally posted by Choleric Psion
So the real question is whats an alufeind, or cambion?

They are the offspring of tanar'ri and humans. Tieflings generally don't have fiendish parents, at that level the blood still runs to strong for them to be merely "plane touched." It takes at least 2 generations for the children to be human enough to be called a tiefling. But back to your question.

Alufiends are children of a succubus and a male human. They have bat wings, human bodies, and actually look alot like the succubus. A good number of them have some spellcasting ability. Cambions are the offspring of a male tanar'ri and a human female. They look like fiendish drow IMHO. They have pointy ears, crazy white hair, and leathery black skin.

Both alufiends and cambions are considered tanar'ri, though they are offen marginalized because of their half-breed nature.
#12

zombiegleemax

Jan 16, 2004 17:58:03
I was thinking about notable cambions and alufiends that i know about and i could only come up with Ely Cromlich. What an excellent “sinker” he was. Hmm.

Anyway, does anyone know of any more notable cambions and alufiends. I know that there was an alufiend in Planescape: Torment who run the Curiosity Shop? but I can’t recall her name.
#13

Shemeska_the_Marauder

Jan 16, 2004 18:58:03
Hmm, I know that there was a Cambion involved in the slide of Plague-Mort into the Abyss in the module 'Well of Worlds'.

And Rule-Of-Three in Sigil is a cambion as well, though he always appears as an old githzerei.
#14

zombiegleemax

Jan 17, 2004 10:13:51
Actually, the alifiend that owns the Curiosity Shoppe is called Vrischika.

:D
#15

choleric_psion

Jan 17, 2004 13:01:30
With all the different types of feinds and celestials running there couldn't be just one type of crossbreed. I think it would be interesting to see what some people can come up with. Now I think that would be quality fan submitted materia (then again I could be wrong because it's all to the Moogle in the end) ...so how about it anyone up for the challenge?

#16

manowater989

Jan 17, 2004 13:36:56
To Choleric Psion: I have been pondering wheather or not to say this to you for a long time, but it is driving me nuts so I am finally just going to come right out and say it: I do bielive the word you are trying to say in your name is spelled "Caloric" C-A-L-O-R-I-C.
#17

sildatorak

Jan 17, 2004 19:41:12
Or maybe he means Choleric as in infected with or causing cholera.
#18

wyvern76

Jan 17, 2004 21:18:24
choleric

1. Abounding with, or producing choler, or bile.

2. Easily irritated; irascible; inclined to anger.

3. Angry; indicating anger; excited by anger.

Choleric is one of the four "humours" or temperaments, the other three being sanguine, melancholic and phlegmatic. The concept originates from the archaic belief that illnesses were caused by an imbalance in the levels of the four bodily fluids (I believe the practice of bleeding was related to this).

Wyvern
#19

factol_rhys_dup

Jan 17, 2004 22:29:31
Might be worth saying that alu-fiends are female and cambions are male.
#20

sildatorak

Jan 17, 2004 22:43:12
Not in 3e...stinking male lamia...
#21

zombiegleemax

Jan 20, 2004 10:16:43
Originally posted by ashramry
everyone knows that depending on the gender of the parent demon you end up being either an alufeind, or cambion. But what are the offspring of devils with mortals called?

Actually, the offspring of devils and mortals are called devil-kin (see Guide to Hell for further details).
#22

zombiegleemax

Jan 20, 2004 13:37:00
Originally posted by Shemeska the Marauder


And Rule-Of-Three in Sigil is a cambion as well, though he always appears as an old githzerei.

(First off, I'd like to preface this by saying:
PLEASE PLEASE pardon me for both calling atention to a minor error of yours and being off-topic, Shemeshka! I swear on my soul that this isn't meant as an insult and that I WILL later post something relevant to the discussion! Please don't subject me to horrible fiendish tortures for this act of impudence! )

I assume you mean 'githzerai', right, Shemeshka? I wouldn't bother commenting, but this is about the fourth time recently I've noticed you consistantly misspelling it that way.... And considering how well-informed you are on planar matters, it was somewhat jarring for me.

On a similar note, I recently observed Primus managing to utterly mangle both 'ceremorphosis' and 'ulitharid' in the same post, even though he obviously knows what he's talking about and has read the Illithiad... Also, there's been a large influx of otherwise intelligent planars around here, who can't pronounce 'Sigil' consistantly... Not just those who voluntarily choose, incorrectly or not, to pronounce it with the hard J sound, but those who (myself included, unfortunately) manage to alternate back and forth between the two multiple times in the same spoken conversation.... I would say that it's the chaotic part of my nature asserting itself just like how I'm deliberately inconsistant in pronouncing 'Xaositect' and related terms, but honestly, I am mildly embarrassed over it...

It's like some horrible mental plague is circulating and causing people to mangle words which they ordinarily shouldn't have trouble with... Could it be that we are victims of the dreaded 'Yogoloth fever', spread through contaminated copies of the 3rd Edition Manual of the Planes and other WotC products? Are we doomed to have our linguistic abilities disintigrate further and further until everything we say or post is nothing more than fragmented scramblespeak?

Or have I just gone barmy over nothing?


Now that I've got that out of my system, we now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.
#23

zombiegleemax

Jan 20, 2004 14:10:29
I know not of which you speak, Feathercircle. My spelling and grammar may be mangled in transit (I've found an interesting tendency for this world-wide-web of yours to mangle my intended messages, whether grammatically or spelling-wise. It must be some form of chaos inherent in the system, I will begin a study), but I see no mention of these so-called errors that you mention. Perhaps it is all that chaos pooling in your brain, mortal.

:: Primus pats his handy Editting Monkey with an innocent smile::
#24

zombiegleemax

Jan 20, 2004 14:54:38
About Cambions: There was also a Cambion involved in the Harbinger House incident.
#25

zombiegleemax

Jan 20, 2004 15:20:55
Originally posted by Primus, the One and Prime
:: Primus pats his handy Editting Monkey with an innocent smile::

Ah, well, that's your problem right there, Primus. The highly-intelligent Editting species originated in Ysgard, where they're known for playing good-natured pranks on passing humanoids and each other. They're naturally adept at reading and writing most languages (though they lack the vocal accessories necessary for speech), so if you have one around it wouldn't be a surprise to find that he's been editing your messages.
#26

Shemeska_the_Marauder

Jan 20, 2004 16:10:39
Originally posted by Feathercircle
[BI assume you mean 'githzerai', right, Shemeshka? I wouldn't bother commenting, but this is about the fourth time recently I've noticed you consistantly misspelling it that way.... And considering how well-informed you are on planar matters, it was somewhat jarring for me. [/b]

*flicker of anger is eyes that is quickly replaced by a calm, pleased expression*

"Ah good, you noticed! I was waiting for one of my admirers here to point that out. The only problem with being such a powerful and influencial paragon of fiedishness is that people are too frightened and meek to point out anything obvious if they think you'll curse them, or incinerate them, etc."

"I'm glad someone finally noticed and pointed it out. That took no small measure of bravery. Perhaps you might be interested in a little bit of contract work from me?"

*bats 'lothy eyelashes* :D

(Wow, can't believe I kept spelling that wrong)

"And I wouldn't know anything at all about any so-called 'Yugoloth fever'. I can easily get you a vial of Gray Wasting though if you wanted..."
#27

zombiegleemax

Jan 20, 2004 18:02:26
That would be 'yogoloth' with an o, just like WotC's misspelling. As it turns out, it seems to have just been Primus's Editing Monkey fooling around with people here, and my hysteria was unwarranted. This time, at least.

I'm honored by your compliments and by your offer, and would be glad to hire out to you for contract work- if you don't mind me sometimes mispronouncing Sigil or pulling the occasional odd job for BOZ, Nemmerle, and the people at the Realms of Evil forums- prior commitments, you know. I can do a little bit of almost anything, though I'm especially good at grammar-vulturing and retrieval of obscure information.

Speaking of obscure information, and more on-topic for this thread, I seem to recall some second-edition sources (A Tiefling's Exultation , in particular) using 'tiefling' to refer to anyone of mixed mortal and fiendish heritage, regardless of how many or few generations removed that heritage may be. Even if it's the only place to use the term in this manner, it's still a good visit for its well-done and creative, if perhaps not entirely balanced, ideas for distinguishing tiefling traits based upon the particulars of their parentage, rather than just having standard traits for all tieflings.
#28

bob_the_efreet

Jan 20, 2004 18:11:47
Ah, Feathercircle. If you're going to be working for a yogoloth (heehee!), you'll be needing some unique equipment. And despite the fact that there's that other yugoloth in Sigil, trying to move in on my curiosity merchant business, I can assure you I have the best and strangest stuff in the multiverse, without having to delve through Pandemonium.
#29

choleric_psion

Jan 28, 2004 10:45:31
Since I haven't been playing D&D even nearly as long as everyone else here (I caught the tail end of 2nd Ed Advanced, but fell for planescape after I finished reading the first book I saw). Does anyone know, or have a good idea of what the list of planetouched and planar half-breeds are (skip the gensai)?

#30

factol_rhys_dup

Jan 28, 2004 13:19:20
Planeborn list:
Aasimar (celesial)
Tiefling (fiendish)
Genasi (elemental, various)
Chaond (chaotic)
Zenythri (lawful)
Tuladhara (neutral)

and then some that I don't like so much from Forgotten Realms
Fey'ri (elven/tanar'ric tieflings)
Draegloth (drow half-fiends)
Feytouched (obvious, planetouched with faerie blood)
Maeluth (dwarven/baatezu tieflings)
Shyft (ethereal planetouched)
Tanarukk (demonic orcs)
Wispling (halfling/tanar'ric tiefling
#31

ripvanwormer

Feb 01, 2004 14:31:27
as an aside. everyone knows that depending on the gender of the parent demon you end up being either an alufeind, or cambion. But what are the offspring of devils with mortals called?

ashy [/b]

I'd say that any half-tanar'ri is a cambion, except for the halfbreed spawn of an incubus or succubus, which is an alu-demon or alu-fiend (or just alu, for those who wish to deny their fiendish heritage - see Fire & Dust.). I wouldn't let gender enter into it, especially considering how amorphous that concept can be among the tanar'ri.

I've heard half-baatezu described as "demians." And nephilim, though that should properly refer to the children of fallen celestials. Hellspawn, pit-twisted, astarim, baalim, blood-nuppered... the possible nicknames are endless.

I just call them tieflings or planetouched, actually. Screw the "one-quarter or less" rule. Same with yugoloth-spawn. Probably most half-devils and demi-loths seem to be mortal at first glance, anyway, so they can better infiltrate mortal societies.
#32

choleric_psion

Feb 01, 2004 17:49:44
I thought I remember reading something about a Niphilim (Or something close to that spelling)? Does that ring a bell for anyone?

#33

sildatorak

Feb 01, 2004 20:35:26
I don't know where (or if) the Nephillim have ever been published in any TSR/WotC material, but they are in the Bible. They were angels that walked the earth during the time of Noah and were destroyed in the flood because they had forsaken heaven for earthly life. There is more tradition about them than actual scripture, I think they only get one or two verses.
#34

ripvanwormer

Feb 01, 2004 21:18:22
Originally posted by Sildatorak
I don't know where (or if) the Nephillim have ever been published in any TSR/WotC material, but they are in the Bible. They were angels that walked the earth during the time of Noah and were destroyed in the flood because they had forsaken heaven for earthly life.

The angels were the Grigori, or the Watchers. The nephilim are the giants they sired with mortal women. The story is mainly from the Book of Enoch and the Book of Jubilees.

The relevant canonical line is this:

"And when men began to multiply over the soil, and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw the daughters of men were fine, and they took wives from any that they chose. And Jehovah said "My spirit shall not be implanted in man forever by their mistep; he is flesh, and his time shall be a hundred and twenty years." The Nephilim were on earth in those days, and afterwards too, w hen the sons of God went in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them: those were the ancient heroes, the men of fame." - Genesis 9:1-4

The Dead Sea scrolls contain a fragment where Lamech, father of Noah, accuses his wife of cheating on him with an angel. He claims that Noah was a Nephilim, and not his son at all. Noah's mother pleads her innocence.

The Watchers are mentioned in the Planes of Law boxed set, in the Mount Celestia book. Their descendents are described as aasimar.