Greyhawk is certainly full of evil civilizations! As if Iuz, the Great Kingdom and the Scarlet Brotherhood were not enough we also have the Horned Society, the Slave Lords and their Pomarj Empire and Rary in the Bright Desert. To add powers like Vecna or Tharizdun to this mix really crowds out the group. Is there any hope for Greyhawk to survive against such odds?
Nezmajen, Cleric 13 of Nerull, was a hierarch. He holds out resistance against Iuz in the Felreev. Described in "Iuz the Evil."
The 83 set places the hierarchy ruled by a Cleric 18. Others are a magic-user above 12th level, several powerful clerics, a thief 13th, and a trio of fighter lords.
That is all I know of being published.
I also checked Jason's index, which doesn't list any other Hierarchs in canon.
Originally posted by Burgoyne
Am I to assume that Warduke was one of the original Hierarchs? Or is he supposed to be a new Hierarch who was recruited after the coup of Iuz?
I don't think that the recent Critical Threat on Warduke said that he was a Hierarch, just that he worked for them (and was rewarded with that helmet).
Wasn't there another thread recently about the Hierarchs?
I found this one, although I'm not sure it was the one I was thinking of.
Originally posted by gunderland
The highest ranking heirarch still alive is Andrade Mirrius - 18th level going by 2nd edition. He was first mentioned in the City of Greyhawk Boxed Set and again in another release in 1998 on an update about the City of Greyhawk.
Who's Andrade Mirrius? Doesn't ring any bells for me.
Here are the Hierarchs of the Horned Society that I know about. I've possibly forgotten a few of them. From the original "Guide to the World of Greyhawk," we know that the leadership consisted of an 18th-level high priest, a magic-user above 12th level, several powerful clerics, a master thief of 13th level, and a trio of fighter Lords (which in the language of 1st edition probably meant 9th-level fighters). We also know that there were 13 Hierarchs c. 576 CY, and that the "religion of the society" is deviltry, which would probably make most of them lawful evil in alignment.
Gygax's novel "Artifact of Evil" probably contains the largest amount of information about the Society, and features a handful of scenes relevant to the current discussion. Here's an interesting quote from the book that sheds a little light on the organization:
"Thirteen stone chairs stand above the many lesser seats in the Hall of Dread of Molag. Five to either hand are smaller and lower than the three in the center. Thirteen thrones for the thirteen Hierarchs, the Dread and Awful Presences who rule the Horned Society. Only three of the chairs were empty. The trio of the tallest thrones remained vacant as the Hierarchs took their places--five to the right, five to the left. Officials and military officers filed in to stand below the thrones."
There's more. A good deal more. I suggest anyone interested check out pages 232-234 of that novel. The most interesting part of the scene involves the three missing Hierarchs, who apparently represented Tarterus, Gehenna, and Hades. They also seem to acknowledge Nerull as their supreme master, so this is probably where Sargent got the idea to make them Nerull worshippers in "From the Ashes."
Assuming that the Hierarchs we found out about in 581-585-era products were part of that original 13, I think we can plug a few holes.
1. Name Unknown (LE Clr18)
Status: Probably dead. Killed by the Unnamable Hierarch, who takes control of the Society by 579 CY?
2. The Unnamable Hierarch (Erac's Cousin) (LE male human Ftr7/Wiz14, orignally probably the MU12 referred to in the Guide to the World of Greyhawk)
Source: Rogue's Gallery, Dragon #56: "Protection Circles and the Like, Plus News of the North Central Flanaess," Dungeon #105: Critical Threats: Warduke."
Status: Killed by agents of Iuz during the Blood Moon Festival, reincarnated as a greater devil via a pact with Baalzebul (entered into to escape imprisonment on the Abyssal layer of the demon prince Fraz-urb Luu).
Notes: Erac's Cousin was a character in Gygax's original Greyhawk campaign, and first appeared way back in 1980's "Rogue's Gallery," a compilation of NPCs for Advanced Dungeons & Dragons. The tie to the Horned Society comes from the May, 1980 edition of Dragon Magazine ("Greyhawk: The Shape of the World," wherein Erac's Cousin is called "The Unnamed." In this source he's a MU16, and in the Rogue's Gallery he has the levels listed in parentheses above. The tie to Baalzebul comes from both the Rogue's Gallery and the monster book of "Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth." Continuity mining isn't always easy (or, for that matter, inexpensive).
In the Dragon #56 article, the Society is run by "The Unnamable Hierarch," and I couldn't resist making the tie official in Dungeon #105. In the current continuity, it is Erac's Cousin who stands behind the "rebirth" of the Horned Society.
3. Vazirian (LE male human Clr14)
Source: "To Slay a Hierarch," campaign card #18, City of Greyhawk Boxed Set.
Status: Dead. If the PCs didn't kill him, the night of the Blood Moon festival probably did.
4. Nezmajen (NE male human Clr13--Nerull)
Source: Iuz the Evil, p. 93
Status: Probably still alive, operating out of the Fellreev Forest. Was in Ixworth the night of the Blood Moon slaughter.
Notes: Unfortunately, "From the Ashes" and its associated products were published during the heavily sanitized days of Second Edition AD&D, when most references to devils and demons were excised or heavily modified. In Sargent's Greyhawk, the religion of the Horned Society seems to shift to Nerull (probably taking a cue from "Artifact of Evil," which has fingerprints all over the From the Ashes era. I prefer the deviltry, with perhaps a bit of Nerull mixed in. "Artifact of Evil" has the Society pledging allegiance to Nerull and literally summoning the Oinodaemon, Anthraxus the Decayed, so they're certainly not immune to the lure of powerful neutral evil extraplanar entities.
5. Andrade Mirrius (Clr18)
Status: Survived the Festival of the Blood Moon. One of only two Hierarchs to do so (the other being Nezmajen), according to "The Adventure Begins" (p. 108).
6. (Clr?)
Status: Dead. Killed during the Blood Moon Festival.
7. (Ftr9+)
Status: Dead. Killed alongside an avatar of Nerull in "Artifact of Evil" or possibly during the Festival of the Blood Moon.
Notes: The "trio of fighter lords" were very possibly in charge of the Society in 579 CY. One represented Gehenna, one Tarterus, and one Hades.
8. (Ftr 9+)
Status: See 7, above.
9. (Ftr 9+)
Status: See 7, above.
10. Hierarch Blontug (male half-orc Clr4/Ftr9/Asn9)
Source: Dragon #56: "Protection Circles and the Like, Plus News of the North Central Flanaess."
Status: Probably killed during the Festival of the Blood Moon, if not before.
Notes: The levels listed above are for 1st edition AD&D, and should probably be lowered significantly.
11. (Unknown)
Status: Dead. Killed during the Blood Moon Festival.
12. (Unknown)
Status: Dead. Killed during the Blood Moon Festival.
13. (Unknown)
Status: Dead. Killed during the Blood Moon Festival.
So, we know that just about all of the Hierarchs were killed during the Festival of the Blook Moon, including the Unnamable Hierarch (who was later reborn). We know Nezmajen and Andrade (and no others) survived this purge. Greyhawk products since the "From the Ashes" era filled in a few holes, most notably Warduke (from a recent Dungeon) and Guiliana Mortidus, who originally appeared in "Greyhawk Adventures" and who was made a Hierarch about 591 CY, according to "The Adventure Begins." So far as I know, the current Hierarchs of the Horned Society are:
1. The Unnamable Hierarch (greater devil) [Rogue's Gallery]
2. Nezmajen (Clr15--Nerull) [Iuz the Evil, TaB p. 91]
3. Andrade Mirrius (Clr18) [The Adventure Begins, p. 91]
4. Warduke (Ftr18) [Dungeon #105]
5. Guiliana Mortidus (Clr12) [Greyhawk Adventures, p. 49; The Adventure Begins, p. 91]
There will doubtless be more.
--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dungeon Magazine
In any event, the guy's dead, so he's not a part of the modern Horned Society. Sounds like an interesting villain from what Keith told me, though.
--Erik
In any event, the guy's dead, so he's not a part of the modern Horned Society.
true enough, but it could help us put a name and face to one of those (unknowns) in the original 13 heirarchs that the first post asked about ;)
Originally posted by Erik Mona
2. The Unnamable Hierarch (Erac's Cousin) (LE male human Ftr7/Wiz14, orignally probably the MU12 referred to in the Guide to the World of Greyhawk)
Source: Rogue's Gallery, Dragon #56: "Protection Circles and the Like, Plus News of the North Central Flanaess," Dungeon #105: Critical Threats: Warduke."
Status: Killed by agents of Iuz during the Blood Moon Festival, reincarnated as a greater devil via a pact with Baalzebul (entered into to escape imprisonment on the Abyssal layer of the demon prince Fraz-urb Luu).
Notes: Erac's Cousin was a character in Gygax's original Greyhawk campaign, and first appeared way back in 1980's "Rogue's Gallery," a compilation of NPCs for Advanced Dungeons & Dragons. The tie to the Horned Society comes from the May, 1980 edition of Dragon Magazine ("Greyhawk: The Shape of the World," wherein Erac's Cousin is called "The Unnamed." In this source he's a MU16, and in the Rogue's Gallery he has the levels listed in parentheses above. The tie to Baalzebul comes from both the Rogue's Gallery and the monster book of "Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth." Continuity mining isn't always easy (or, for that matter, inexpensive).
In the Dragon #56 article, the Society is run by "The Unnamable Hierarch," and I couldn't resist making the tie official in Dungeon #105. In the current continuity, it is Erac's Cousin who stands behind the "rebirth" of the Horned Society.
Nice info, Iq!
Where is it mentioned that Erac's Cousin was reincarnated as a greater devil? And what type of greater devil (I would assume a pit fiend, what with at least two other Hierarchs being 18th level)?
Rob Bastard
http://www.bastardgreyhawk.isonfire.com
Home of the Bastards in Greyhawk!
There's more information about the Fraz'urb-Luu encounter in MM2 and the Tsojcanth monster booklet.
--Erik
Also, if you want to read another version of Erac, don't forget REM's "House on Summoner Court" from OJ #7 (later reprinted and changed in Shadis #50).
Anyhow, here's the skinny so far, gleaned from you, the faithful board members:
1: The Unnamable Hierarch - If this is indeed not one of the original Hierarchs, then that raises the question of who the original Hierarch was. And why was this character called Erac's Cousin? Who the heck is Erac anyhow?
2: Vazirian the Ex-Shieldlander. What is he a cleric of? Nerull?
3: Nezmajen, a powerful Cleric of Nerull
4,5,6: The Infamous Fighter "Lords" I think if I'm accepting that Warduke is an actual Hierarch, which IS what Dungeon magazine is suggesting, then I'm going to assume that he was indeed one of these Fighter Lords, at least until proven otherwise.
7: Blontug - What's with all these Half-Orc Fighter/Assassins. This guy and Theg Narlot must hang out together.
8: Andrade Mirrius - Another powerful cleric of Nerull.
9: An Unnamed Thief.
10: An Unnamed Wizard.
11: A Hierarch that was possibly developed in the Tomb of Horrors novel.
12, 13: Two other unknowns, though one of them may have been the original leader of the Horned Society.
I know the answers are out there somewhere...
Originally posted by Burgoyne
I always wondered why the source material always seems so specific on the numbers of the Horned Society while not be to straightforward on the details of who these people are. My curiousity was peaked by the passing mention of a group of "Black Hearted Adventurers" who took Molag in Iuz's absence...
I think that was probably part of the original intent: let the DM round out the details of who these guys are. In the original 1980 folio, the rulers of the various nations of Greyhawk weren't even named, they were just given classes and levels
1: The Unnamable Hierarch - If this is indeed not one of the original Hierarchs, then that raises the question of who the original Hierarch was. And why was this character called Erac's Cousin? Who the heck is Erac anyhow?
Here's that Greytalk Archive article I mentioned above, from Scott Gregg's researches. It should answer some of your questions: http://www.greycitadel.com/greycitadel/greytalk.nsf/b44505cda4beea3285256664005e00fa/f22af3fbab93f12985256a71000821ec?OpenDocument&Highlight=2,erac,scott
7: Blontug - What's with all these Half-Orc Fighter/Assassins. This guy and Theg Narlot must hang out together.
LOL!
11: A Hierarch that was possibly developed in the Tomb of Horrors novel.
Keith's novel is good: it's fairly well-written, has engaging characters, and handles Greyhawk well. My only complaint about the novel is that 2/3 of it is spent getting to the Tomb, and only the last third tracks the characters within the Tomb itself. I don't recall the cleric very much, beyond the fact that he was pretty cool and also involved with Tharizdun IIRC.
2: Vazirian the Ex-Shieldlander. What is he a cleric of? Nerull?
from the text of "To slay a Hierarch" it would appear that he is a cleric of Asmodeus
Burgoyne, Warduke is not one of the "original" Hierarchs. Warduke was recruited by the Unnameable Hierarch after the Festival of the Blood Moon, after the GH Wars. Critical Threat: Warduke reads that Warduke "...emerged from nowhere after the Greyhawk Wars..." when the Unnameable Hierarch began rebuilding the Society.
The above might be pedantic, but if you are looking for "original" Society members, Warduke must not technically be included. Warduke is a nasty bad guy, man. He is a frightening NPC - even if caught asleep without his gear. He is a great start on future Society personalities.
Originally posted by cwslyclgh
from the text of "To slay a Hierarch" it would appear that he is a cleric of Asmodeus
And that is a better representation of the Society's original obsession - devils and demons. Ties to Nerull are too contrived, for reasons described above. Nerull's portfolio doesn't seem to fit the Society's direction. A treatment of the Society as devil-worshipers is more authentic.
Thanks for the link to the information about Erac's Unnamable Cousin. Seems safe to assume that this is indeed the same guy, and if not then I'm going to assume so anyhow in my campaign at least... Where was this information compiled from, though?
The implication is not that Erac's Cousin died during his tangle with Fraz'urb Luu, but rather that he was killed during the Festival of the Blood Moon, a death that unintentionally triggered his transformation into a greater devil per his earlier agreement with Baalzebul.
If we go by the Dragon #56 article and make the assumption that the "Unnamable Hierarch" and "The Unnamed--Erac's Cousin" are the same person (and I don't really see a reason why not--the setting needs all the "name" NPCs it can get its hands on), Erac's Cousin must have been a part of the Society during the run-up to the Greyhawk Wars.
That puts him in the Hall of Dread when Iuz's forces attacked. From TaB and elsewhere we know that Mirrius and Nezmajen were the only hierarchs to survive the carnage in Molag, so it stands to reason that the Unnamable Hierarch is dead.
Long live the Unnamable Hierarch!
--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dungeon Magazine
I didn't decide to add Warduke to Greyhawk because I have any love for the cartoon. Rather, Warduke was probably the most visible of TSR's "marketing" characters during the height of the game's popularity. He appeared on candy boxes, coloring books, adventures, stickers, and even had his own action figure. And he was on the cartoon once or twice. I figured that putting him on the cover of Dungeon would draw more people to the magazine, and that by tying him to Greyhawk I might get more people interested in Greyhawk.
Plus, I think he's pretty cool-looking, so that didn't hurt, either.
--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dungeon Magazine
Originally posted by Erik Mona [b]The implication is not that Erac's Cousin died during his tangle with Fraz'urb Luu, but rather that he was killed during the Festival of the Blood Moon, a death that unintentionally triggered his transformation into a greater devil per his earlier agreement with Baalzebul.
[snip]
That puts him in the Hall of Dread when Iuz's forces attacked. From TaB and elsewhere we know that Mirrius and Nezmajen were the only hierarchs to survive the carnage in Molag, so it stands to reason that the Unnamable Hierarch is dead.[/b/
Aha, that's what was confusing me: I had always figured that the three top Hierarchs were slain when Gord banished Nerull in Artifact of Evil. I was conflating that with the Blood Moon events; thanks for clearing that up!
If we go by the Dragon #56 article and make the assumption that the "Unnamable Hierarch" and "The Unnamed--Erac's Cousin" are the same person (and I don't really see a reason why not--the setting needs all the "name" NPCs it can get its hands on), Erac's Cousin must have been a part of the Society during the run-up to the Greyhawk Wars.
That makes sense. While I like your logic in putting the two NPCs together, I also like the idea of keeping the Unnamable Hierarch separate from Erac's Cousin for the same reason: it gives us two name NPCs to play with vs. just one. Erac seems to have a great fear of devils in general, so in my reading of his nature (also informed from the OJ adventure), he may be too cowardly to be a part of the Hierarchs ;)
I guess I just figured that since Venger has a big horn coming out of his head. Maybe he could form a rival group, the Horn Society?
Originally posted by Erik Mona
I didn't decide to add Warduke to Greyhawk because I have any love for the cartoon. Rather, Warduke was probably the most visible of TSR's "marketing" characters during the height of the game's popularity. He appeared on candy boxes, coloring books, adventures, stickers, and even had his own action figure. And he was on the cartoon once or twice. I figured that putting him on the cover of Dungeon would draw more people to the magazine, and that by tying him to Greyhawk I might get more people interested in Greyhawk.
Plus, I think he's pretty cool-looking, so that didn't hurt, either.
Warduke rocks!
Could you talk to Rob Heinsoo and Mike Donais in minis and try to convince them to create a Warduke mini?
Halber
Erac seems to have a great fear of devils in general, so in my reading of his nature (also informed from the OJ adventure), he may be too cowardly to be a part of the Hierarchs
>>>
Erac's Cousin can't have too strong a fear of devils, as he entered into a pact with Baalzebul to turn him into one when he died. It's _dying_ that Erac's Cousin wanted to avoid, according to the Rogue's Gallery. He also has an imp familiar. If the goal is to find appropriate devil worshipers from prior continuity, he actually seems like one of the best candidates "canon" has to offer.
It's perhaps worth noting that while Erac's Cousin appears in the Oerth Journal version of Roger Moore's "The House on Summoner Court," he does _not_ appear in the later Shadis Magazine edition of that "adventure." I've just reread the "Evran Coo" material from the OJ "House on Summoner Court," and I remain unimpressed.
Interestingly, in a discussion of Erac's Cousin's imp familiar (unfortunately named "Hairball"), Roger said: "Hairball's secret goal is to serve Baalzebul by having Erac's Cousin continue slaying powerful Good-aligned people across the Flanaess, allowing a resurgence of the Horned Society."
So, even here, there's a tie to the Horned Society.
--Erik Mona
And the Unnamable Hierarch certainly sounds much more menacing than "Erac's Cousin."
since one of the known survivors of the hierarchs is an 18th level cleric (Mirrius) in these heady days of 3e & 3.5 whats to stop Mirrius from simply casting True Reserrection a few times and round out the hierarch roster with his former fellows?
True Resurrection is such a lame, world-breaking spell.
Ugh.
--Erik
thanks!
Mike
Scott
Erac
Erac was a lawful good wizard who reached the level of Warlock (6th level) adventuring in and around the ruins of Greyhawk Castle. On one expedition into the dungeons below the castle, while exploring the sixth dungeon level, he discovered a small sublevel separated from the main dungeon by a single corridor. At the end of the corridor, Erac discovered a small area containing many small, shallow wading pools, the ceiling overhead was decorated to look like a star-filled night sky. Upon entering the area, a wall slammed shut behind him, cutting him off from the main dungeon and trapping him in the newly discovered sublevel. Erac never discover the secret for escaping his prison, and eventually he succumbed to starvation.
Erac’s Cousin
Several months later a wizard that refused to divulge his name, but claiming to be Erac's Cousin, began adventuring in the Greyhawk Dungeons. Erac‘s Cousin, as he came to be known, discovered Erac's remains. More importantly, he discovered the secret of escaping from the dungeon. The magic words needed to escape were hidden among the stars on the ceiling. Erac’s Cousin owed much of his early success to the Wand of Fear and the Silver Horn of Valhalla that he recovered from Erac's body.
Erac’s Cousin has never revealed his true name for he reckoned there was power in knowing another's name.
Erac's Cousin was lawful good, but he was also greedy, a trait that the wizard Bombadil was able to use to his advantage. Deep in the dungeons of Greyhawk Castle there stands an enormous stone statue known as The Great Stone Face, or The Enigma of Greyhawk. A ring of strange runes circle the base of the statue, and the statue itself radiates magic. Many adventurers have tried in vain to unlock the enigma's secrets. While adventuring alone in the dungeons Bombadil placed a Magic Mouth spell on the stone face that when triggered stated, "The ways of balance need to be maintained. Give your most prized possession as a gift freely to one who walks the path of balance and your great reward will follow in short time." Shortly thereafter Bombadil returned to the chamber of The Great Stone Face, this time accompanied by Erac's Cousin. While exploring the area Bombadil conveniently placed himself out of hearing range of the spell. As planned his unnamed companion triggered the spell, and a short time later donated a potent magic item to the sly Bombadil, who just happened to be the first neutral character Erac‘s cousin ran into..
One of Erac's Cousin's more memorable adventures occurred after he spotted a strange red star in the night sky. He drifted off to sleep thinking of the strange star and when he awoke he discovered he had been transported to Mars. To his surprise he arrived stark naked. Soon after his arrival, the mage was attacked by the Cannibals of Ugor. Much to his dismay, he discovered that magic didn’t work there, and he was forced to fight toe-to-toe with the bloodthirsty cannibals using nothing more than a tree branch. In time the unnamed adventurer adapted and ultimately excelled in is new environment. Due to the planet's low gravity the marooned wizard's strength was heroic. He could leap 20 to 40 feet into the air, and much further than that forward. During the many months that he spent there, being unable to use magic, Erac's Cousin began training as a fighter. Instead of using magic to defeat his enemies, he would now cut them down with a sword. Before returning to Oerth he had slaughtered hoards of Green Martians, and organized an escape from the mines of the Yellow Martians. Finally he discovered a method of returning to Greyhawk. He found Oerth in the night sky before going to sleep and when he awoke he was back home. Unfortunately his arrival home was similar to his arrival on Mars; naked. He had left a fortune behind on the red planet.
As Erac's Cousin grew in strength a rivalry developed between him and some of the other powerful characters of the World of Greyhawk, particularly Lord Robilar, who successfully managed to persuade several of the unnamed wizard's henchmen to desert their master and follow him. Erac's Cousin was quite powerful, but remained reluctant to confront the powerful warrior. Robilar was always in the back of the mage's mind and he was always sure to have a number of area effect spells memorized to counter the fighter’s Ring of Spell Turning, and a Dimension Door ready in case a hasty retreat was called for.
Already a powerful wizard and a capable fighter, Erac's Cousin became even deadlier after he was transported to Wonderland through a gate in the Greyhawk dungeons. While traveling across the bizarre demi-plane he ran into Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum. The twin brothers offered him some silly looking trinket they had in exchange for a wand he was carrying. When he returned to the Greyhawk dungeons the trinket transformed into a Vorpal Blade. Later he acquired a second Vorpal Blade as part of a treasure he discovered while adventuring in the wilderness. The swords were both holy swords that had additional powers that would only work for a paladin, but the greedy adventurer was never willing to part with either of his prized weapons. In combat he would summon monsters, cast a few damage causing spells like Magic Missile and Cone of Cold and then go charging into battle wielding his two powerful magic swords.
Back in the Greyhawk dungeons, Erac's Cousin and the fighter Ayelerarch came upon a beautiful face that cried golden tears. The face told the adventurers the tale of his imprisonment and the heroic deeds required to release him. The adventurers agreed to recover The Urn of Moon Dust from a group of werebears. Erac’s Cousin and Ayelerach successfully recovered the urn, and to complete the quest, they sprinkled the moon dust on the weeping visage. The face was actually the demon prince of deception, Fraz-Urb'luu, who had been imprisoned by the mad arch-mage Zagyg centuries earlier. The completion of the quest resulted in his release. When he came to his proper form the adventurers attacked the fiend to try to undo their foolishness. The enraged demon fought back fiercely. In desperation Erac's Cousin used a gate spell from a scroll he had and managed to gate in the god Zeus, but to their shock and horror, the god chose to ignore their plea for help. The demon then whisked himself and the adventurers back to his own plane where strange forces there drained the magic from all the items Ayelerach and Erac's Cousin were carrying, including Erac's Cousin's prized Vorpal Blades. Fraz-Urb'luu quickly subdued the stranded adventurers and they suffered unspeakable tortures at his hands before they eventually managed to escape.
Erac's Cousin blamed the gods for the suffering he had endured at the demon’s hands, and for the loss of his prized items. He bitterly turned his back on the good powers he had paid homage to in the past, and instead chose for himself a path of evil. The unnamed wizard called upon the archfiend of Hell, Asmodeus, and a pact was made. The one-time powerful force for good, was now one of Hell’s greatest champions. To aid in his endeavors, and as part of their pact, Erac's Cousin was given an imp as a familiar. He does not trust the imp though, and he fears Asmodeus may have deceived him somehow.
From this point on, Erac’s Cousin became a psychotic killer. He quickly slaughtered all of his former associates and henchmen, stole all of their wealth and magic, burned down his stronghold, and became a wanderer, traveling only with the imp, in rat form, for a companion.
Erac's Cousin has taken several longevity potions and seems very young. He is able and deadly, but also paranoid, and he avoids any situation he finds risky.
Since the unnamed spellcaster first discovered Erac's body, he has kept it in his possession. Originally he kept the body hidden in a secret location, but now he carries it with him, keeping it stashed in his Portable Hole. Occasionally Erac's Cousin still thinks about resurrecting Erac.
I'd probably lower his level if I was going to re-do the NPC.
True Resurrection is such a lame, world-breaking spell.
It seems to me Soul Bind could have been used. There is no reason that Erac's Cousin was brought back, doesn't it make more sense that he was simply transformed from a larva (dretch?) into a greater devil? I am by no means an Outsider expert but if I remember correctly an evil doers soul must advance up the ranks once he dies. His deal with Baalzebul probably didn't bring him back it simply transformed him up the ranks quicker.
That's a great post! Here's hoping you're helping Gary and Rob as a research assistant on their Castle Zagyg project.
--Erik
I have worked with EGG before, and I am happy to say that he will be sending me some material once he begins working on the dungeon proper for Zagyg's Castle.
Scott
Oh, well. Plenty of other NPCs out there.
--Erik
Or we moving into a reservation system?
Originally posted by Erik Mona
Plus, I think he's pretty cool-looking, so that didn't hurt, either.
His helmet is cool. But wearing half a suit of mail? Really, Erik--that boy needs to put some clothes on.
Bastard Greyhawk
Originally posted by Lassiviren
And the Unnamable Hierarch certainly sounds much more menacing than "Erac's Cousin."
Or "Erik's Cousin" for that matter.:D
As I've said above, Warduke is a deadly NPC. If he is any indication of how the Horned Society will be developed in the future, Iuz will be hard-pressed to maintain control in his eastern holdings. Forces of good better quit fighting with each other...
1: I'm having a hard time finding info on Vazirian. What publication did he appear in?
2: Is it possible that Blontug was one of the Fighter Lords? The description of him in Dragon seems to suggest that as a possibility.
Originally posted by Burgoyne
I'm still researching this matter to death, and I still have a two niggling questions:
1: I'm having a hard time finding info on Vazirian. What publication did he appear in?
He appears on one of the adventure cards in the City of Greyhawk boxed set, mentioned earlier in this thread. He is a 14th level priest. It doesn't state who he worships, but it mentions that he has an Unholy Text of Asmodeus.
Originally posted by Grugach
He appears on one of the adventure cards in the City of Greyhawk boxed set, mentioned earlier in this thread. He is a 14th level priest. It doesn't state who he worships, but it mentions that he has an Unholy Text of Asmodeus.
According to Jason Zavoda's wondrous index, Vazirian appears on cards # 18 and 24 in the CoG box set.
Originally posted by cwslyclgh
if we are assuming that Erac's Cousin was transformed after his death (due to his pact with B.) then we must assume that no sort of Soul Bind type magic was used on the Night of the Blood Moon.
since one of the known survivors of the hierarchs is an 18th level cleric (Mirrius) in these heady days of 3e & 3.5 whats to stop Mirrius from simply casting True Reserrection a few times and round out the hierarch roster with his former fellows?
True Res really is a pain but there might be a way around it without mucking with levels.
If True Res. exists in the Flanaess - then Iuz and the SB and even good realms will have developed a way to prevent people they don't want brought back from being True Ressed.
Otherwise - sentencing someone to death in, say Nyrond, is going to be pretty useless if the criminal has a powerful enough clerical sponser/friend. Equally being a Scarlet Brotherhood assassin would be a pretty thankless job, if your high ranking targets keep respawning. Otherwise why wasn't the Szek of Onnwal (for example) just True Ressed by a sympathetic high level cleric?
So - there must be a way to negate or block True Res. This can be Soul Bind, or raising them as undead or something else already in the rules, but it might also be some Undefined Ritual (tm) (which has the advantage to the DM and the writer of being adaptable to whatever the needs of the situation are).
So if Iuz is going to take out the Hierarchs, he's going to make sure that they stay dead. So he uses the Undefined Ritual (tm) and so they can't be True Ressed. Due to his pact with Baalzebub, The Unnamable Hierarch isn't affected (for some arcane reason - and here's why having an Undefined Ritual (tm) is useful).
If you don't like the idea of the Undefined Ritual (tm), just assume that Iuz used Soul Bind, but it didn't work on the Unnamable Hierarch for the same reason.
As an aside - there must also be ways of preventing regeneration in realms using mutilation as a punishment. Either that or healing a mutilated criminal must be itself a crime. Or both.
Paul
If True Res. exists in the Flanaess - then Iuz and the SB and even good realms will have developed a way to prevent people they don't want brought back from being True Ressed.
don;t need to develope anything... soul bind works just fine.
Otherwise - sentencing someone to death in, say Nyrond, is going to be pretty useless if the criminal has a powerful enough clerical sponser/friend. Equally being a Scarlet Brotherhood assassin would be a pretty thankless job, if your high ranking targets keep respawning. Otherwise why wasn't the Szek of Onnwal (for example) just True Ressed by a sympathetic high level cleric?
because clerics of 17th level or higher should be exceedingly rare in any case, and I doubt that a high level cleric would be willing to true ressurect somebody of a different faith... so that makes the chance of it happening even less likley... (ie there needs to be a 17th + level cleric of your religion around or your are SOL)... plus it is assumed that many people do not want to be resurected because they are happy with thier afterlife... and like all resurection magic in 3e you can pnly resurect a person who wants to come back... on the other hand I think a bunch of Horned Society Heirach bastards would rather be spreading evil alive on the material plane then being torchured for all eternity by devils in hell.
but it might also be some Undefined Ritual (tm) (which has the advantage to the DM and the writer of being adaptable to whatever the needs of the situation are).
Undefined Ritual are two very common words... and it would be nearly impossible to defend a trademark in such a case :P
As an aside - there must also be ways of preventing regeneration in realms using mutilation as a punishment. Either that or healing a mutilated criminal must be itself a crime. Or both.
again that is not so much of a problem if you make characters try to find high enough levels of clerics of thier own faith... rather then just letting them go to the local temple of Pelor (etc.) regardless of who they worship. Plus even if they go to thier temple there is no garuntee that they would be healed... a Lawful church might well say that they have been rightiously punished and must live with the consequences of thier actions.
Originally posted by Burgoyne
Finally got around to the Tomb of Horrors novel. The villian is indeed a former Horned Society member named Durgoth Shem, albeit one who's chosen to change his allegiances to the worship of Tharizdun.
That Durgoth sure is a creep! Hope he got what was coming to him!
K
Originally posted by Keith_Strohm
That Durgoth sure is a creep! Hope he got what was coming to him!
LOL, like Allan said, very funny Keith. And good question - when will we see the tortured paladin and elf-ranger adventuring again?
Was Durgoth a Hierarch before the horned society was decimated by Iuz, or was he a lower ranking member of the group?
The mere existence of the Horned Society always seemed sort of redundant, which is probably why they were mostly absent in the post Greyhawk Wars era. It makes me wonder about the original games of dungeons and dragons. Was the Horned Society a villainous substituition for Iuz while he was imprisoned under Castle Greyhawk? I tend to get the impression that some of the Horned Society members (particularly those who still go unnamed) were some of the players of the original campaigns... Hence, their names were not given out for the usual reason: They all had amusing names like Medium Rary or some such...
Does this seem possible? Or am I just reaching for straws here?
Happy Gaming.
So - there must be a way to negate or block True Res. This can be Soul Bind, or raising them as undead or something else already in the rules, but it might also be some Undefined Ritual (tm) (which has the advantage to the DM and the writer of being adaptable to whatever the needs of the situation are).
Actually the new Complete Divine has some interesting information about the afterlife. If the majority of the Hierarchs made pacts with various devils as Erac's cousin obviously did then their souls were probably remade as lemurs or they were reconstituted into new forms at the amusement of Asmodeus and company. This would make them unable to be affected by True Resurrection.
Originally posted by Burgoyne
Was the Horned Society a villainous substituition for Iuz while he was imprisoned under Castle Greyhawk?
Well according to the folio, the Horned Society was once part of Iuz's realm that broke away once they realized he wasn't around to boss them around anymore. This is also why he invaded them during the wars.
Halber
Originally posted by Sushi
In Dungeon 111, the villain in the adventure "Strike on the Rabid Dawn", a Sor5/Ftr2/Diciple of Asmodeus10 named Markosian, is said to be a Hierarch of the Horned Society, but im unsure if this can be accepted as canon...
Well, seeing as how Erik is the editor of Dungeon & there's a bit at the end of the adventure making reference to Warduke & the HS in general, I think it'd be safe to assume that Markosian is "tenatively" canon.
Originally posted by Kar-Vermin
I could be wrong (rumors persist that it has happened before;) ), but doesn't the Greyhawk novel Nightwatch have a Hierarch as its main villain?
Very true Kar-Vermin!
Nightwatch, huh? Never heard of it, but now I will hunt it down. You don't mean Night Arrant, I assume?
And, yes, it's Night Watch by Robin Wayne Bailey (ISBN: 0880389141)
Originally posted by Mortepierre
It's in Greyhawk's future alright, though Mordenkainen is still alive. Apparently, it's also a lower magical setting.
And, yes, it's Night Watch by Robin Wayne Bailey (ISBN: 0880389141)
Well, the novel came out back in the days of 1e IIRC, so if you were to incorporate any part of it into your campaign, you'd have to make a few changes (Horned Society still a major threat, Iuz still imprisoned, Nerof Gasgol dead, etc). And magic (divine magic, anyway) is definately not as prevalent as it should be.
I wasn't that fond of it in general, although it's depictions of life in Greyhawk, where most of the book is set, were pretty detailed, and can be mined for good DM details.
Now what was that Hierarch's name, anyway?
Yes, that'll do...
Originally posted by Burgoyne
Greyhawk is certainly full of evil civilizations! As if Iuz, the Great Kingdom and the Scarlet Brotherhood were not enough we also have the Horned Society, the Slave Lords and their Pomarj Empire and Rary in the Bright Desert. To add powers like Vecna or Tharizdun to this mix really crowds out the group. Is there any hope for Greyhawk to survive against such odds?
I wouldn't call them all evil. The Great Kingdom is surely full of evil-doers, and the land has become twisted by devils and foul magicks, however the people are not all evil, just many of the leaders, and even then, not all of them are. There is a dominant dynamic of evil within the Kingdom, but that does not mean it has full control. The same cannot be said perhaps about Iuz, since most humans have been slaughtered and replaced with demons and orcs and other inherantly evil humanoids, but even then, there are pockets of resistance. The Horned Society is merely a shadow of it's former self and even at it's height was not that large or powerful. The Pomarj is a region under heavy internal conflict, the place was once a prosperous area and there are pockets of elvish, dwarvish and human resistance. And the Bright Desert is certainly not under the total sway of Rary, in fact, he can't rightly be called it's king given that he doesn't control most of the area and only a few of the nomads call Robilar master.
And Vecna doesn't have an empire, just agents working evil throughout the lands, much like Tharizdun worshipers.
Originally posted by Lassiviren
I also gathered from that article that he was working for a Hierarch. My main problem with that is if this is truly the case: Why? He is obviously more powerful than almost all the other Hierarchs. I always got the impression that the Horned Society was overlooked by the good nations because they weren't much of a threat. It seems to me Warduke could have went through most of them like a buzzsaw.
The president of the united states is arguably the most powerful man on earth, and yet I'm quite positive that if I were to face off with him in hand to hand combat, I'd kick his arse. And he can't willy-nilly do whatever he likes just because he has nukes. He can certainly push the envelope, as evidenced with Iraq, but there are limits and there are consequences.
Things just aren't as plain cut as being 20th-level and uber.
Anyone track down that name from Nightwatch? Interesting that the Horned Society would still be around that many years later in the timeline of Greyhawk... Despite the fact that I'm fairly sure that this novel isn't canon.
He is never named as far as I could tell. he took the appearance of Kentellen Mar but his true named was never revealed.
Might he perhaps be another Hierarch?
http://home.comcast.net/~chris.s/greyhawk.html#gravestone
Also Turin Deathstalker was once in the employ of the Horned Society and learned much of his craft from them... (see GH Adventures)
The new map from Dungeon depicts the Horned Society with a large area of control.... just wondering if Iuz's power is dwindling or what happened?
The new map from Dungeon depicts the Horned Society with a large area of control.... just wondering if Iuz's power is dwindling or what happened?
It is either:
1: Showing where the original horned society lands were for new players.
2: It's made so that people who play older greyhawk can use it.
S.H, Naerie webslave