Shemeska, you're going to love me...



Jan 24, 2004 2:38:18
Alright, having poured through my 3.5 Conversion manual, I was poking around in the 3.5 Monster Manual II conversion, and caught the loveliest thing in the Arcanoloth listing...

"LA: +7"

Yes, an official Level Adjustment for Arcanaloths...which immediately made me do a dance of joy, and whip out Savage Species...because its...


That's right boys and girls, I am about to endeavor to convert my favorite outsiders(well, tied with vrocks) into a playable-from-1st-level advancement class.

Shemeska, as our resident 'loth, I'd appreciate your input as I work, as well as others interested in the project. I'm letting this sit while I take a friend home, then I'm coming back and getting started tonight.

Step #1: Finalizing a 3.5 monster entry based on Monster Manual II and the conversion handout.

Step #2: Find an appropriate parallel to our 12 HD, 7 LA monster among the already denoted Savage Species progressions.

Step #3: Begin to break up the Hit Dice, and nail down some of the abilities, and invent advancements for some of the more powerful ones (ex. Mental Immunity, Fly at will, etc.)

Step #4: Smear and mold until happy.


Jan 24, 2004 2:46:29

Yes indeed

I'll give some input most definately, however I don't have any of the 3.5 books (nor will I till my current campaign is over in around a year or so, no use in switching systems till its run its time). So I'll need to find my copy of the conversion document and brush up on some of the 3.5 rules etc.

*cackles and rubs clawed yet well manicured and delicate hands together*


Jan 24, 2004 3:14:28
Medium-sized Outsider (Evil, Extraplanar, Yugoloth)
Hit Dice: 12d8 (54 hp)
Initiative: +7
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), fly 50 ft. (poor)
Armor Class: 28 (+3 Dex, +15 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 25
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+12
Attack: Claw +12 melee (1d4 plus poison)
Full Attack: 2 claws +12 melee (1d4 plus poison) and bite +7 melee (1d6)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Posion, spell-like abilities, spells
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 15/good, outsider traits, partial immunity to spells, SR 24, yugoloth traits
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +11, Will +14
Abilities: Str 11, Dex 16, Con 11, Int 20, Wis 18, Cha 17
Skills: Bluff +18, Concentration +15, Diplomacy +22, Gather Information +18, Intimidate +20, Knowledge (arcana) +20, Knowledge (the planes) +20, Listen +19, Profession (scribe) +19, Search +20, Sense Motive +19, Spellcraft +22, Spot +19
Feats: Combat Casting, Empower Spell, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Spell Focus (Abjuration)
Environment: Any land or Underground(Gehenna)
Organization: Solitary, pair, or embassy (3-4)
Challenge Rating: 17
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always neutral evil
Advancement: 12-24 HD (Medium-size)
Level Adjustment: +7

Partial Immunity to Spells: Mind-affecting spells have no effect on arcanoloths.

Poison (Ex): An arcanoloth's claws are coated with poison. It delivers this poison (Fortitude save DC 16) with each successful claw attack. The initial and secondary damage is the same (1 point of Strength damage).

Spell-like abilities: At will--darkness, fly, heat metal, invisibility (self only), magic missile, shapechange, telekineses, warp wood; 1/day--fear, major image. Caster level 12th; save DC 13 + spell level.

Spells: An arcanoloth can cast arcane spells as a 12th level sorcerer.

Summon Yugoloth (Sp): Once per day, an arcanoloth can summon another arcanoloth with a 40% chance of success. This is the equivalent of a 6th-level spell.

Step #1 done.


Jan 24, 2004 3:56:53
We'll finally get to see Teenage Shemmy. Bwahahaha


Jan 24, 2004 4:05:54
Step #2: Find some parallels. Well, the vrock is only one ECL away(10HD 8LA), as are the astral deva and trumpet archon (both 12HD and 8LA), outsiders all, so they are a fine mix from which to draw our selection. They will show us what WotC thinks is appropriate at what character level, and even give us some mixes of HD levels and LA levels, to see where we want our "dead levels" to fall.
TA AD Vr Arc<br /> 1 1 1 1<br /> 2 2 2 2<br /> 3 3 3 3<br /> D 4 D 4<br /> 4 5 D 5<br /> 5 D 4 D<br /> D 6 D 6<br /> 6 D D D<br /> D 7 5 7<br /> 7 D D D<br /> D 8 6 8<br /> 8 D D D<br /> D 9 7 9<br /> 9 D D D<br /> D 10 8 10<br /> 10 D D D<br /> D 11 x 11<br /> 11 D x D<br /> D 12 x 12<br /> 12 D x x


Jan 24, 2004 4:44:07
Okay, first stab at formalizing our base, level 1 Arcanoloth.

*Starting Ability Score Adjustments: +2 Int, +2 Cha. Arcanoloths are well-educated, and gifted in the arts of speech.

*Low-light Vision: As all outsiders, arcanoloths gain lowlight vision.

*Darkvision: Arcanoloths can see in the dark up to 60 ft.

*Saves: An arcanoloth recieves a +4 racial bonus on its saves versus poisons and mind-influencing effects.

*Automatic Languages: An arcanoloth can read and speak Abyssal, Common and Infernal.

*Favored class: Arcanoloth.

*As an outsider, an arcanoloth breathes, but need not eat, or sleep. It cannot be raised, reincarnated or resurrected. It requires limited wish, wish, miracle, true resurrection, or raise outsider to return it to life.

Class Skills: Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (the planes), Listen, Profession, Search, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot.

Class Features:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The arcanoloth is proficient with all simple and martial weaons but not with armor or shields.

Lvl BAB Fort Ref Will Skill<br /> Save Save Save Points CR <br /> 1 +1 +2 +2 +2 (8+Int mod)x4 1 <br /> <br /> Special: Feat, evil subtype, +3 natural armor, 2 claws 1d4


Jan 24, 2004 10:41:52
Hmm ... very ... interesting. Very interesting indeed ...


Jan 24, 2004 10:55:21
I am honored indeed, the two most prestigious fiends in Sigil in my prepatorium. For non-illithid...Hells, I'm honored despite that. Please, relax, enjoy my thralls' service while I work on this research. And for a suitable price, I can see that this research only falls into, shall I say, the appropriate claws?


Jan 24, 2004 13:14:42
For a moment there, I thought the illithid DM was completely barmy. But, Jasper, it looks like you might be on to something.

I'm sure you realize, this does present a problem. You see, we can't have an neutral evil-aligned advancement table without having a netural good one, too.

*looms menacingly in the way that rilmani loom when there's Balance to be served*

So, you might want to get to work on a guardinal conversion of approximately equal level, or you'll be getting a visit very, very soon. If you get my drift.

((Actually, I really like what you've been doing so far ;) It's very well-done. I can't wait to see the finished product))


Jan 24, 2004 15:21:46
Creating new things is what I do, oh Rilmani, races, classes, even planes. Trained by a lifeshaper and a planeswalker I was, and my arts are very strong.

By the by, I have begun breaking down the race into it's subsequent levels. Expect a post within the day.


Jan 24, 2004 15:22:15
... Arcanoloth advancement class. Perfect for a fiend whose strength has been drained and is working to get it back....



Jan 24, 2004 15:59:09
Lvl BAB F R W Skills Special<br /> 1 +1 +2 +2 +2 (8 + Int mod)x4 Feat, evil subtype, +3 natural armor, 2 claws 1d4<br /> 2 +2 +3 +3 +3 (8 + Int mod) Poisonous claws; acid, cold, fire, electricity resist 5<br /> 3 +3 +3 +3 +3 (8 + Int mod) Feat, lesser arcanoloth powers 1/day, +2 Int, +2 Cha<br /> 4 +4 +4 +4 +4 (8 + Int mod) Fly 10ft.(poor), +5 natural armor, +2 Dex<br /> 5 +5 +4 +4 +4 (8 + Int mod) DR 5/good, +8 versus poison, tongues, +2 Int, +2 Cha<br /> 6 -- -- -- -- -- Lesser powers 3/day; acid, cold, fire, electricity resist 20<br /> 7 +6 +5 +5 +5 (8 + Int mod) Feat, +7 natural armor, +2 Int, bite 1d6, +1 sorcerer<br /> 8 -- -- -- -- -- Fly 30ft.(poor), spell resistance, +2 Wis, +1 sorcerer<br /> 9 +7 +5 +5 +5 (8 + Int mod) Summon arcanoloth 10%, immunity to poison and acid, +1 sorcerer<br /> 10 -- -- -- -- -- Powers 1/day, +9 natural armor, +1 sorcerer<br /> 11 +8 +6 +6 +6 (8 + Int mod) Lesser powers at will, DR 15/good, +2 Wis, +1 sorcerer<br /> 12 -- -- -- -- -- Powers 3/day or 1/day, +2 Dex, +2 Int, +1 sorcerer<br /> 13 +9 +6 +6 +6 (8 + Int mod) Feat, +11 natural armor, +1 sorcerer<br /> 14 -- -- -- -- -- Fly 50ft.(poor), +2 Wis, +1 sorcerer<br /> 15 +10 +7 +7 +7 (8 + Int mod) Greater powers 1/day, +2 Dex, +1 sorcerer<br /> 16 -- -- -- -- -- +13 natural armor, immunity to mind-influencing, +1 sorcerer<br /> 17 +11 +7 +7 +7 (8 + Int mod) Greater powers 3/day, +2 Wis, +1 sorcerer<br /> 18 -- -- -- -- -- Summon arcanoloth 40%, +1 sorcerer<br /> 19 +12 +8 +8 +8 (8 + Int mod) Feat, +15 natural armor, All powers at will or 1/day, +1 sorcerer


Jan 25, 2004 7:02:41

You're a beautiful beautiful man Jasper, er Illithid, er Alhoon. Or something?


Jan 25, 2004 13:28:21
Jasper, this looks awesome. I already yoinked and converted to a table in Word (for ease of reading).

One small quibble, I think the advancement is missing one +2 Int somewhere - the MMII says Int 20 (= +10 Int overall), but your progression only has +8. Everything else looks spot-on though!

I assume +1 HD per level that increase BAB?



Jan 25, 2004 14:02:31
I assume that's listed in starting adjustments.

In the words of the Dustman Spectre Factotum that helped my party some days ago: "Woo! Woo!"


Jan 25, 2004 16:10:11
Originally posted by ZebRaderJedi
Jasper, this looks awesome. I already yoinked and converted to a table in Word (for ease of reading).

One small quibble, I think the advancement is missing one +2 Int somewhere - the MMII says Int 20 (= +10 Int overall), but your progression only has +8. Everything else looks spot-on though!

I assume +1 HD per level that increase BAB?


Yes, My chart has built unto the base +2 Int and +2 Cha listed above, and each non-"dead"-level is a Hit Dice level. Dead levels give no bonuses, which are every even level after 4th.


Jan 25, 2004 19:14:29
This is an awesome job, Jasper. One thing, though. Is it legal to post those 3.5 arcanoloth stats? What book are they from? I thought that they were from the MM2, and that that wasn't OGL.


Jan 25, 2004 23:58:32
Eh, I'll risk it, there's no harm, as it's not the MM2 one exactly, it's modified with the conversion book data. And I don't think WotC is gonna eat me alive for work product of a new class.


Jan 26, 2004 5:45:31
Recently given free rein of himself, Astarik is looking to learn from the masters, and so he begins his quest to meet Shemeska and A'kin, hoping to learn some of their dirtier tricks. He is smart, and has a firm grasp of negotiation that will only grow with age, and serve him well in the hard streets of Sigil. Astarik takes care to seem stronger than he looks, so as to not reveal that some of the fiends of Sigil are younger than they appear...

Astarik, male arcanoloth 1; CR 1; Medium outsider(evil); HD 1d8; hp 5; Init +2; Spd 30 ft.; AC 16, touch 11, flat-footed 15; Base Atk +1; Grp +0; Atk +1 melee (1d4-1, claw) OR +1 melee (1d8-1 longsword); Full Atk +1/+1 (1d4-1 claws) OR +1 melee (1d8-1 longsword); SQ darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, + 4 racial vs poison, mind-affecting; AL NE; SV Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +3; Str 8, Dex 12, Con 10, Int 16, Wis 13, Cha 17.

Skills and Feats: Bluff 4(+9), Diplomacy 4(+7), Gather Information 4(+7), Intimidate 4(+9), Knowledge (arcana) 4(+7), Knowledge (the planes) 4(+7), Listen 4(+5), Search 4(+7), Sense Motive 4(+5), Spellcraft 4(+7), Spot 4(+5); Persuasive.

Equipment: Leather armor, longsword, courtier's clothing.


Jan 26, 2004 5:51:27
Had to pull 2 Charisma out of the chart, had them getting too much after counting in the base bonuses...


Jan 29, 2004 16:13:57
Just a thought, based on my own methods:

You can SERIOUSLY reduce the uber stat effect of having adventurer statistics applied to a monster by assuming that an arcanaloth of full HD has, in fact, used up the various stat rolls and such already.

Using a 28 point buy, for instance, and some basic reductions, I managed to reduce it to the point where the character gets +4 Int, +4 wis, and +3 Cha, and no other adjustments.

To get to the 'natural' arcanaloth statistics, just apply your bonuses from leveling and your starting point buy in such a way as to acheive it.

A good way to bring it down to LA +6.


Jan 29, 2004 16:27:58
The race covers the average Arcanoloth, as do most every listing in the Monster Manual...all 10s and 11s. It is the uniqueness of PCs, who have, such as Astarik, the 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 array, that makes the player characters over the edge. I don't WANT to knock off stats and lower the CR/LA/ECL. I want the full benefits of the racial stat bonuses, to add to my arrays, point buys, or phat rolls.


Jan 29, 2004 17:12:16
Just noting.

I personally try to avoid having PCs that have a +30 ability bonus over the others, for the sake of simplicity.


Jan 29, 2004 17:18:01
Yeah, as weird as it is, monsters in the rulebooks are supposed to be average. Like an "average arcanoloth," whatever that means. It's really hard to imagine, but an arcanoloth pulled right from the stat writeup is like the equivalent of the elf writeup: a relatively unimpressive, unexceptional example of its kind.


Jan 30, 2004 3:01:02
Which makes me tsk at Shemmy since her Int, in 2e, was no greater than any other arcanaloth...

Of course, considering how Charismastic she is, at least she didn't waste'em.

...Unless she's actually a COMMON arcanaloth...



Jan 30, 2004 11:57:10
... or if she's not an arcanoloth at all, but a few ratatosks with a cloak and a mask. Oh wait, that was someone else.


Jan 30, 2004 14:02:05
*chuckle* That's good


Jan 31, 2004 8:44:16
No chance you could add a 20th level to that? I know you'd have to make something up, but it would be great to have a 20 level monster class (:

And it looks really good.


Jan 31, 2004 14:29:02
Level 20: advance to ultraloth status


Jan 31, 2004 16:21:49
I've been playing around with this "monster class" some and level 20 is good for Sorcerer, for that little extra CL boost. Some PrC w/ +1 CL might work just as well though....


Jan 31, 2004 16:49:25
Here's an idea:
Someone make a huge class that takes you from the lowest form of an exemplar race to the highest form, evolving as you go. Each time you evolve, you begin with all the abilities you would have at that level, so you don't go from a fully-formed arcanoloth to a level-1-equivalent ultraloth. You start off in your new form, but at the appropriate power level for your class level. Maybe I'm not explaining it right, but if anyone else thinks this would at least be a cool thing to see, if not actually use, then let me know. I can see some problems with it already, but it might be interesting to see happen.


Jan 31, 2004 17:16:45
Do you mean like 2nd Edition did with Warriors of Heaven? It would be tough, since you would either have to change the xp chart or do something else entirely to try and account for the centuries that it takes for the exemplar races to reach new forms.


Jan 31, 2004 17:30:41
Right. That whole thing is probably a stupid idea. I didn't really think that one through. But, of course, if I did, I wouldn't be a Cipher! :D


Jan 31, 2004 17:42:56
I didn't say it was a bad idea, just difficult to implement.