DarkHelm's Dragons & Avangions - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

DarkHelm's Dragons & Avangions

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Jan 26, 2004 1:39:24 I have a version of my stage-1 PrC for dragons up on my site, for review. You can find it here. It is subject to change, as I release the Stage-2 and Stage-3 PrC's, the epic spells (Stage-1, Stage-2, Stage-3 and Stage-4 Defiler Metamorphosis spells) and their associated applied templates, plus other rules associated with dragons. This is my personal take on Dragons, and at this point is.... very incomplete. Suggestions & comments are most welcome, either here or in the thread I've linked to on my site.
#2
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Jan 27, 2004 19:58:28 I've updated the page, adding in info about obsidian orbs, the stage 1 epic spell, stage 1 template as well as the prestige class, all on my actual website, as opposed to being in my forums. Check it out from the above link.
#3
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Jan 27, 2004 23:51:11 Stage-2 spell, template and PrC are up for review. Follow the link in my first post to check them out, they are listed after the stage-1 versions. As always, they are a "work in progress", and suggestions are welcome.
#4
dawnstealer
Jan 28, 2004 10:21:37 One of the things I had was that "Dragon Magic" was basically a Limited Wish spell-like ability that was usable once a week. Since this was the "Greater Athasian Dragon," and not the lesser version a PC had access to, there was no chance they could abuse it (but I sure could! MuuuuuhahhahhahhahAHAAAHAHA!). There does need to be a solid rules system for those obsidian orbs, how they're created (you cover some of that), but more importantly: How they work, Who can use them (Tithian comes to mind), and What they do.

Good stuff, xlor.
#5
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Jan 28, 2004 11:04:58 I hope to get it a bit more organized, and even test the system a bit, in an effort to make it work overall. For dragons, I have 2 more spells, 2 more templates and 1 more prestige class. Plus I'm still working on outlining the construction & use of ziggarauts for the metamorphosis spell.
#6
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Jan 28, 2004 13:44:00 Stage 3 spell, template and prestige classes are up on the page now, I put them after the stage-2 info.
#7
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Jan 28, 2004 15:17:04 Ok, I have the final stage - Stage 4 up for review. It has a spell and template, but no associated prestige class.
#8
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Jan 29, 2004 2:18:39 I broke the page up a bit, each stage has it's own page now. The link above leads to the overview. Here's a list of the direct links to each section:

Overview
Stage 1
Stage 2
Stage 3
Stage 4
Magic/Psionic Items
#9
zombiegleemax
Feb 12, 2004 1:32:49 doesn't the magic resistance seem a little high? Accourding to the conversion book, a 2e creature's magic resistance is divided by 4 then you add 7. The final stage dragons had mr of 87 or so in 2e.
#10
jaanos
Feb 12, 2004 13:49:56 Reposted from similar thread:

I've read the proposed dragon documents... and .... i'm not a fan. Not a personal critism, alot of thought has gone into it, my question is this:

Why make (what was in 2e) a 10-level metamorphis and progression into 3 or four 10-level prestige classes? why make 10 levels into 40?

I'm a big believer in keeping things as much in 'flavour' with the orignal, most of my previous critisms of DS3.0 have been based on this.

Personally, i think dragons are petty easy to do. 10-level Prestige class with size increases (confering bonues to STR and CON along the way) with a couple of bonues to INT and WIS, acess to epic spells and feats and VOILA! something similar to the 2e flavour. My own personal version works on a "typical" mage (one with the minium qualifying stats) turing out to be physically similar to a Wyrm Red Dragon, but with a little more *magic* (due to levels as a spell caster)

Just my opinion, don't want to dapen anyones enthusiasm, but making each stage of four 'distinct' phases of metamorphis into a 10-level prestige classes is... not darksun INMHO
#11
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Feb 12, 2004 19:56:48
Originally posted by claytonian
doesn't the magic resistance seem a little high? Accourding to the conversion book, a 2e creature's magic resistance is divided by 4 then you add 7. The final stage dragons had mr of 87 or so in 2e.

What Magic Resistance are you talking about (do you mean Spell Resistance?) I wrote something on SR in my design, but I hadn't gone into detail like what you are mentioning.... In fact.... I have no clue what you are talking about.
#12
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Feb 12, 2004 19:57:57 Jaanos: I'm not cross-posting my reply. It's in the other thread.
#13
zombiegleemax
Feb 12, 2004 20:37:49 well I was specifically talking about spell resistance. Is what is magic resistance? Does that term actually exist? I think I just made it that term up by mistake.
#14
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Feb 12, 2004 21:14:11 Well, I don't think I have anything about them "getting" Spell Resistance, but I could be mistaken... If they do, it might be in the later stages, but it's not an initial thing. Please help me locate where that would be found at in my write-up. The only thing I know of off-hand is the ability they have for getting around Spell Resistance/Power Resistance by blending their psionics with their magic. I still don't know what you are talking about. I've been busy with other things currently and haven't had my head wrapped around the Dragons this week - what with job hunting and such.
#15
zombiegleemax
Feb 13, 2004 2:14:43 well I coulda sworn I saw something about it in your website. In any case, athas' dragons do have spell resistance, so that should be part of your system in my opinion, but by 3e rules, they don't have too much.
#16
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Feb 13, 2004 14:01:58 I left that up to the individual character. There are feats & epic feats that provide spell resistance/power resistance. However, I am still quite unclear where or how you came up with that formula. I have never seen it, and can't even find anything in my 3.5 books that makes any mention (or even remotely follows) that formula you provided.
#17
zombiegleemax
Feb 13, 2004 15:37:53 I got my info from the book dragon kings, which provides the stats for each stage of the metamorphisis. Don't tell me you're trying to work without this book.

When 3.0 came out, wizards gave out a free short book called "the conversion book" which tells how to convert things from 2e to 3e.

All very simple
#18
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Feb 13, 2004 16:00:48
Originally posted by claytonian
I got my info from the book dragon kings, which provides the stats for each stage of the metamorphisis. Don't tell me you're trying to work without this book.

When 3.0 came out, wizards gave out a free short book called "the conversion book" which tells how to convert things from 2e to 3e.

All very simple

I use Dragon Kings and Preservers & Defilers, along with some info gleaned from PP and RaFoaDK. A couple of the ideas even came from the Dhamon Saga for Dragonlance (the idea of pain wracking through the body). Plus, I am using concepts from Deities Demigods, the Epic Level Handbook, the Book of Vile Darkness, and of course, the core 3.5 rulebooks. Of course, I can't quote a few of those books verbatim, so I make references to some, or rewrite/restructure what I need from others.

I vaguely remember that conversion book, and also remember finding that it was inherently flawed, as many of the things it said to do for conversion didn't seem to be even looked at/used by WotC itself. I haven't seen that pamphlet in.... oh 2 or 3 years... Generally, when I'm working a conversion, I tend to wing it, and try to build something that makes sense in d20 (3e/3.5e), rather than a codified set of rules governing the conversion (which can be inaccurate in some cases).

However, I'll look into the SR/PR, and see what I can drum up.
#19
heretic_apostate
Feb 14, 2004 1:58:59 Xlorep:

You had SR for your initial dragon and avangion conversions (about a year ago?). And your stage 4 dragon has a bonus to SR and psionic resistance.

Maybe that's what he's thinking of?
#20
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Feb 14, 2004 2:15:55 Maybe.... I'll have to look. Honestly, I might actually have it *in* the writeup on my site, but umm... I forget.
#21
zombiegleemax
Feb 14, 2004 2:19:52 yeah I saw something in your writeup that spurned this critique, but I can't honestly remember where. In any case, dragons should have some sr, I'm just not too sure how much anymore.
#22
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Feb 14, 2004 2:42:11 I just remembered - I didn't include it directly in this writeup, because no dragons in D&D (3e/3.5e) have SR/PR IIRC. Since none of the other dragons have it, *and* I have been trying to work towards them being like other dragons (attacks, damage, etc.), I felt it wasn't needed. Then again, other dragons have some immunities to things that these don't have, so I might still fit it in somewhere.
#23
nytcrawlr
Feb 14, 2004 8:25:33
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
I just remembered - I didn't include it directly in this writeup, because no dragons in D&D (3e/3.5e) have SR/PR IIRC.

Might want to look again. ;)

They have a SR rating in most of their tables that increases according to age category.

I would also give them PR equal to said SR rating, depending on how you run psionics anyways, if it's different than they should have a PR rating equal to their SR rating (per PsiHb rules), if it's the same then they just get SR.
#24
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Feb 14, 2004 11:51:14 There I go, spouting off something incorrect while I'm half asleep.... I'll derive the SR based off of other Dragons then
#25
lyric
Dec 30, 2004 0:44:22
well I was specifically talking about spell resistance. Is what is magic resistance? Does that term actually exist? I think I just made it that term up by mistake.

2e and 3e terms.. magic resistance is 2e, done by percentile.. spell resistance is 3e.. done by point value.. very similar. overall.. same effect.
#26
zombiegleemax
Dec 30, 2004 20:06:27 xlorep, do you still have a site? the above links don't work.
#27
Pennarin
Dec 31, 2004 1:16:34 Its all shut down while he's building his server up again.

I suppose he'll do the same as he did last time: post on the DS boards about the (re)opening of his own boards and site, so just wait for it.
#28
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Jan 02, 2005 9:50:46
xlorep, do you still have a site? the above links don't work.

My site's down semi-permanently right now, unfortunately. I havwe a new one, like Pennarin stated, which is close to being ready to get up online, however I have no way to put it up online at this time. However, hopefully soon here, it will go live.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Jan 26, 2004 1:39:24	I have a version of my stage-1 PrC for dragons up on my site, for review. You can find it here. It is subject to change, as I release the Stage-2 and Stage-3 PrC's, the epic spells (Stage-1, Stage-2, Stage-3 and Stage-4 Defiler Metamorphosis spells) and their associated applied templates, plus other rules associated with dragons. This is my personal take on Dragons, and at this point is.... very incomplete. Suggestions & comments are most welcome, either here or in the thread I've linked to on my site.
#2 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Jan 27, 2004 19:58:28	I've updated the page, adding in info about obsidian orbs, the stage 1 epic spell, stage 1 template as well as the prestige class, all on my actual website, as opposed to being in my forums. Check it out from the above link.
#3 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Jan 27, 2004 23:51:11	Stage-2 spell, template and PrC are up for review. Follow the link in my first post to check them out, they are listed after the stage-1 versions. As always, they are a "work in progress", and suggestions are welcome.
#4 dawnstealer Jan 28, 2004 10:21:37	One of the things I had was that "Dragon Magic" was basically a Limited Wish spell-like ability that was usable once a week. Since this was the "Greater Athasian Dragon," and not the lesser version a PC had access to, there was no chance they could abuse it (but I sure could! MuuuuuhahhahhahhahAHAAAHAHA!). There does need to be a solid rules system for those obsidian orbs, how they're created (you cover some of that), but more importantly: How they work, Who can use them (Tithian comes to mind), and What they do. Good stuff, xlor.
#5 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Jan 28, 2004 11:04:58	I hope to get it a bit more organized, and even test the system a bit, in an effort to make it work overall. For dragons, I have 2 more spells, 2 more templates and 1 more prestige class. Plus I'm still working on outlining the construction & use of ziggarauts for the metamorphosis spell.
#6 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Jan 28, 2004 13:44:00	Stage 3 spell, template and prestige classes are up on the page now, I put them after the stage-2 info.
#7 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Jan 28, 2004 15:17:04	Ok, I have the final stage - Stage 4 up for review. It has a spell and template, but no associated prestige class.
#8 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Jan 29, 2004 2:18:39	I broke the page up a bit, each stage has it's own page now. The link above leads to the overview. Here's a list of the direct links to each section: Overview Stage 1 Stage 2 Stage 3 Stage 4 Magic/Psionic Items
#9 zombiegleemax Feb 12, 2004 1:32:49	doesn't the magic resistance seem a little high? Accourding to the conversion book, a 2e creature's magic resistance is divided by 4 then you add 7. The final stage dragons had mr of 87 or so in 2e.
#10 jaanos Feb 12, 2004 13:49:56	Reposted from similar thread: I've read the proposed dragon documents... and .... i'm not a fan. Not a personal critism, alot of thought has gone into it, my question is this: Why make (what was in 2e) a 10-level metamorphis and progression into 3 or four 10-level prestige classes? why make 10 levels into 40? I'm a big believer in keeping things as much in 'flavour' with the orignal, most of my previous critisms of DS3.0 have been based on this. Personally, i think dragons are petty easy to do. 10-level Prestige class with size increases (confering bonues to STR and CON along the way) with a couple of bonues to INT and WIS, acess to epic spells and feats and VOILA! something similar to the 2e flavour. My own personal version works on a "typical" mage (one with the minium qualifying stats) turing out to be physically similar to a Wyrm Red Dragon, but with a little more magic (due to levels as a spell caster) Just my opinion, don't want to dapen anyones enthusiasm, but making each stage of four 'distinct' phases of metamorphis into a 10-level prestige classes is... not darksun INMHO
#11 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Feb 12, 2004 19:56:48	Originally posted by claytonian doesn't the magic resistance seem a little high? Accourding to the conversion book, a 2e creature's magic resistance is divided by 4 then you add 7. The final stage dragons had mr of 87 or so in 2e. What Magic Resistance are you talking about (do you mean Spell Resistance?) I wrote something on SR in my design, but I hadn't gone into detail like what you are mentioning.... In fact.... I have no clue what you are talking about.
#12 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Feb 12, 2004 19:57:57	Jaanos: I'm not cross-posting my reply. It's in the other thread.
#13 zombiegleemax Feb 12, 2004 20:37:49	well I was specifically talking about spell resistance. Is what is magic resistance? Does that term actually exist? I think I just made it that term up by mistake.
#14 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Feb 12, 2004 21:14:11	Well, I don't think I have anything about them "getting" Spell Resistance, but I could be mistaken... If they do, it might be in the later stages, but it's not an initial thing. Please help me locate where that would be found at in my write-up. The only thing I know of off-hand is the ability they have for getting around Spell Resistance/Power Resistance by blending their psionics with their magic. I still don't know what you are talking about. I've been busy with other things currently and haven't had my head wrapped around the Dragons this week - what with job hunting and such.
#15 zombiegleemax Feb 13, 2004 2:14:43	well I coulda sworn I saw something about it in your website. In any case, athas' dragons do have spell resistance, so that should be part of your system in my opinion, but by 3e rules, they don't have too much.
#16 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Feb 13, 2004 14:01:58	I left that up to the individual character. There are feats & epic feats that provide spell resistance/power resistance. However, I am still quite unclear where or how you came up with that formula. I have never seen it, and can't even find anything in my 3.5 books that makes any mention (or even remotely follows) that formula you provided.
#17 zombiegleemax Feb 13, 2004 15:37:53	I got my info from the book dragon kings, which provides the stats for each stage of the metamorphisis. Don't tell me you're trying to work without this book. When 3.0 came out, wizards gave out a free short book called "the conversion book" which tells how to convert things from 2e to 3e. All very simple
#18 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Feb 13, 2004 16:00:48	Originally posted by claytonian I got my info from the book dragon kings, which provides the stats for each stage of the metamorphisis. Don't tell me you're trying to work without this book. When 3.0 came out, wizards gave out a free short book called "the conversion book" which tells how to convert things from 2e to 3e. All very simple I use Dragon Kings and Preservers & Defilers, along with some info gleaned from PP and RaFoaDK. A couple of the ideas even came from the Dhamon Saga for Dragonlance (the idea of pain wracking through the body). Plus, I am using concepts from Deities Demigods, the Epic Level Handbook, the Book of Vile Darkness, and of course, the core 3.5 rulebooks. Of course, I can't quote a few of those books verbatim, so I make references to some, or rewrite/restructure what I need from others. I vaguely remember that conversion book, and also remember finding that it was inherently flawed, as many of the things it said to do for conversion didn't seem to be even looked at/used by WotC itself. I haven't seen that pamphlet in.... oh 2 or 3 years... Generally, when I'm working a conversion, I tend to wing it, and try to build something that makes sense in d20 (3e/3.5e), rather than a codified set of rules governing the conversion (which can be inaccurate in some cases). However, I'll look into the SR/PR, and see what I can drum up.
#19 heretic_apostate Feb 14, 2004 1:58:59	Xlorep: You had SR for your initial dragon and avangion conversions (about a year ago?). And your stage 4 dragon has a bonus to SR and psionic resistance. Maybe that's what he's thinking of?
#20 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Feb 14, 2004 2:15:55	Maybe.... I'll have to look. Honestly, I might actually have it in the writeup on my site, but umm... I forget.
#21 zombiegleemax Feb 14, 2004 2:19:52	yeah I saw something in your writeup that spurned this critique, but I can't honestly remember where. In any case, dragons should have some sr, I'm just not too sure how much anymore.
#22 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Feb 14, 2004 2:42:11	I just remembered - I didn't include it directly in this writeup, because no dragons in D&D (3e/3.5e) have SR/PR IIRC. Since none of the other dragons have it, and I have been trying to work towards them being like other dragons (attacks, damage, etc.), I felt it wasn't needed. Then again, other dragons have some immunities to things that these don't have, so I might still fit it in somewhere.
#23 nytcrawlr Feb 14, 2004 8:25:33	Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm I just remembered - I didn't include it directly in this writeup, because no dragons in D&D (3e/3.5e) have SR/PR IIRC. Might want to look again. ;) They have a SR rating in most of their tables that increases according to age category. I would also give them PR equal to said SR rating, depending on how you run psionics anyways, if it's different than they should have a PR rating equal to their SR rating (per PsiHb rules), if it's the same then they just get SR.
#24 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Feb 14, 2004 11:51:14	There I go, spouting off something incorrect while I'm half asleep.... I'll derive the SR based off of other Dragons then
#25 lyric Dec 30, 2004 0:44:22	well I was specifically talking about spell resistance. Is what is magic resistance? Does that term actually exist? I think I just made it that term up by mistake. 2e and 3e terms.. magic resistance is 2e, done by percentile.. spell resistance is 3e.. done by point value.. very similar. overall.. same effect.
#26 zombiegleemax Dec 30, 2004 20:06:27	xlorep, do you still have a site? the above links don't work.
#27 Pennarin Dec 31, 2004 1:16:34	Its all shut down while he's building his server up again. I suppose he'll do the same as he did last time: post on the DS boards about the (re)opening of his own boards and site, so just wait for it.
#28 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Jan 02, 2005 9:50:46	xlorep, do you still have a site? the above links don't work. My site's down semi-permanently right now, unfortunately. I havwe a new one, like Pennarin stated, which is close to being ready to get up online, however I have no way to put it up online at this time. However, hopefully soon here, it will go live.