http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=175795
/kill Pen now, please!
there will be NO spelljamming in ANY of my campaigns EVER! =)
the whole idea is silly and absurd =P
I had something out in the Grey called the "Veil" (not to be confused with "the Veal," which is something else entirely). The players could travel to the Outer Planes when they reached a high enough level and they readily did, having a great time triapsing around the Great Ring and waiting for the day that they could bounce back to Athas with all their shiny, metal things. What happened when they crossed the Veil?
Why, it all crumbled to dust.
Heh. The look on their faces was priceless.
Space Halflings. I've said it before and I'll say it again: maybe it's a good thing that TSR folded when it did.
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
Nyt, back me up on this, but space-faring halflings were (much to my horror) part of the "Great Plan" for Athas. That was going to be the "Next Big Threat," I think, after the Deadlands, Kreen Empire, and, of course, Dregoth.
At the last GenCon we attended, some of the old DS designers there confirmed this.
It was actually Bill Slavikcek's(sp?) idea though I think.
I don't want to speak out of my hat but it seems not that many people liked the consequences of the setting. Mixing SJ and Dragonlance must have been for DL fans like hot-iron in an upon wound. Must of us here feel the same about SJ and DS. I never could find someone who like SJ nor could I ever like it myself (but thats me, heh).
Here is from Abbey's letter:
[...] Earlier paragraph here
Hamanu's story was a true roller-coaster ride. The only guidance I got from TSR was that, when the book ended, no reader should be able to tell what, if anything, had actually changed in Urik, or Athas-proper, because the milieu was going to be completely re-constructed. (I was told that the halflings were coming back in planet-killer space ships to do war with the Dragon-kings and recreate the Blue era. I thought that had zero potential for the sort of stories I like to write and my goal, when I began plotting the book, was to keep Urik safe from the game department and put Hamanu someplace where they couldn't mess with him.)
[...] Further paragraph here
Originally posted by Pennarin
I never could find someone who like SJ nor could I ever like it myself (but thats me, heh).
I liked SJ.
Do I liked it mixed with DS? Hell no!
The one good thing with SJ, limitless adventures.
The stuff mentioned in Abbey's letter is backed up by that inscription from "Mystery of the Ancients" that goes on about the rhulisti and the Blue Age returning.
Did the designers give anything more away about this at GenCon, Nyt? I've never been a huge fan of the space halflings plot but it holds a grim fascination for me...
SJ (or planescape for that matter) visiting Athas is great (if your players wish to of course, if they want to load up on life-shaped items then get the hell out and ignore the fell of the place...send them to Ravenloft!) Athas being visited by or visiting PS or SJ is very wrong on so many, many levels.
BTW, I actually like SJ. Ran a few mid length campaigns in it and had a good time. Of course, I downplayed the importance of elves and majorly upgraded the illithids and their ships. It was these campaigns that really put the fear of mind flayers into my long term group.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
I liked SJ.
Do I liked it mixed with DS? Hell no!
The one good thing with SJ, limitless adventures.
want Limitless adventures? the Outer Planes is the place to be, especially The Abyss which has infinite layers all with different properties =)
I detest SJ in every way and form, it's a weak and poor attempt to mix Sci-Fi and Fantasy =)
I detest SJ in every way and form, it's a weak and poor attempt to mix Sci-Fi and Fantasy =)
May a thousand rabid hamsters infest your loins!
Boys from the Dwarf!!
Originally posted by leopardmessiah
SJ is great, I have only one balanced reply to make to this:
SJ (or planescape for that matter) visiting Athas is great (if your players wish to of course, if they want to load up on life-shaped items then get the hell out and ignore the fell of the place...send them to Ravenloft!) Athas being visited by or visiting PS or SJ is very wrong on so many, many levels.
RL and DS is a damn good mix IMO, Amen!
Originally posted by Kamelion
Did the designers give anything more away about this at GenCon, Nyt?
No, that was pretty much it.
Originally posted by Mach2.5
BTW, I actually like SJ. Ran a few mid length campaigns in it and had a good time. Of course, I downplayed the importance of elves and majorly upgraded the illithids and their ships. It was these campaigns that really put the fear of mind flayers into my long term group.
I actually loved the way they did Elves and Illithids.
I played a vegetarian Illithid that was against the main Illithid god and wanted to save the race as a whole from utter doom in a SJ camapign once with 2e rules.
Best character and the most fun I have had to date.
Originally posted by zerpentor
want Limitless adventures? the Outer Planes is the place to be, especially The Abyss which has infinite layers all with different properties =)
While I like PS and have played some campaigns in it.
SJ still is very limitless over PS, there are just so many planes you can go to, with SJ you have the whole universe at your disposal, limitless types of worlds to adventure on.
I detest SJ in every way and form, it's a weak and poor attempt to mix Sci-Fi and Fantasy =)
Geez, they had to break the rules somewhere, otherwise it wouldn't be fun and be too realistic, then what is the point? I think they did a good job overall.
want Limitless adventures? the Outer Planes is the place to be, especially The Abyss which has infinite layers all with different properties =)
Been there too
2nd favorite TSR setting next to DS. Also 2nd longest running campaign I ever ran.1) Dark Sun (duh).
2) Planescape (I would cross over between this and Athas, but carefully).
3) Spelljammer.
4) FR.
5) Ravenloft.
6) Etc.
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
I would cross over between this and Athas, but carefully
With Dregoth and its demons, we will all have to cross over.
Will we be ready?
I'm not sure I ever will...
There is nothing like boarding an Elvish Crusaders flag ship, and demanding to hand it over, but there is nothing like swinging an obsidian blade, and praying (to no god at all) that it does not shatter.
The sphere of the Dark Sun is massive, or perhaps it seems massive. Between the outermost world and the spherewall is the Black Gulf, a cold, dark region that takes no less than two months to cross. The Black Gulf is haunted by unimaginable horrors; most ships that attempt to cross it are never heard from again. Those that survive speak of almost constant attacks, their ships torn and near ruin.
The spelljamming cultures of Darkspace (if I might use that term) are quite primative. If anything, resources are more scarce than on Athas itself. The largest cities are ruled over by terrible sorcerer kings who construct armadas from the husks of gigantic insects. They battle over an asteroid cluster (belt?), with rare verdent asteroids and tiny caches of ever precious iron. Always in the shadows are the illithids, awaiting the time when the might of the sorcerer kings fail and they can sweep over the cities, expanding their rule.
The ships of Darkspace are small asteroid-hoppers powered by psionic helms or terrible lifejammers; true spelljammer helms are unheard of. Catapults and balistae are rare devices, highly coveted but impossible to repair. Ships from other spheres, such as hammerships, are unknown. If one were found, it would be a one-of-a-kind, a relic to be fought over until it falls apart from lack of repairs (for none would know how to or have the materials to properly repair such a craft). Most ships cannot survive a landing on a large world, as they are too fragile for such things.
Anyways, that's a summation of my thoughts on the subject as they stand now.
Originally posted by Nightdruid
The sphere of the Dark Sun is massive, or perhaps it seems massive. Between the outermost world and the spherewall is the Black Gulf, a cold, dark region that takes no less than two months to cross. The Black Gulf is haunted by unimaginable horrors; most ships that attempt to cross it are never heard from again. Those that survive speak of almost constant attacks, their ships torn and near ruin.
The spelljamming cultures of Darkspace (if I might use that term) are quite primative. If anything, resources are more scarce than on Athas itself. The largest cities are ruled over by terrible sorcerer kings who construct armadas from the husks of gigantic insects. They battle over an asteroid cluster (belt?), with rare verdent asteroids and tiny caches of ever precious iron. Always in the shadows are the illithids, awaiting the time when the might of the sorcerer kings fail and they can sweep over the cities, expanding their rule.
The ships of Darkspace are small asteroid-hoppers powered by psionic helms or terrible lifejammers; true spelljammer helms are unheard of. Catapults and balistae are rare devices, highly coveted but impossible to repair. Ships from other spheres, such as hammerships, are unknown. If one were found, it would be a one-of-a-kind, a relic to be fought over until it falls apart from lack of repairs (for none would know how to or have the materials to properly repair such a craft). Most ships cannot survive a landing on a large world, as they are too fragile for such things.
Hmmm, interesting.
There's my way of getting Illithids on Athas I guess, hehe.
With the ship destroying trying to land on a big planet thing, I can't remember SJ mechanics too well, but you could always have that related to the gravity well of Athas just being too strong for such a thing, if I am remembering the mechanics right.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Hmmm, interesting.
There's my way of getting Illithid on Athas I guess, hehe.
The brainsuckers always seem popular, for whatever reason...;)
With the ship destroying trying to land on a big planet thing, I can't remember SJ mechanics too well, but you could always have that related to the gravity well of Athas just being too strong for such a thing, if I am remembering the mechanics right.
I was thinking more along the lines of a) ships not built to land (ie "No" on ground/water landings) and b) helms are unusually weak, and tend to fail inside the larger planetary bodies. Mechanically, regular helms would do fine, but since those are as rare as mecha on Athas...
Originally posted by Nightdruid
The brainsuckers always seem popular, for whatever reason...;)
I just like them because they are very unique and have always had a fondness for them.
I was thinking more along the lines of a) ships not built to land (ie "No" on ground/water landings) and b) helms are unusually weak, and tend to fail inside the larger planetary bodies. Mechanically, regular helms would do fine, but since those are as rare as mecha on Athas...
Ah, wasn't aware of that.
That makes more sense then.