Male Nibenese Templars?



Feb 06, 2004 10:13:29
Quick Question:

Are there male nibenese templars in's Dark Sun 3.5?

The templar base class would suggest so.


Feb 06, 2004 10:20:02
That hypothetical scenario could arise if the DM allows it.

Note that the templar prestige class for Nibenese templars will have a female requirement.


Feb 06, 2004 16:58:19
I see.

I myself was wondering what to do with the Templar. Class or prestige class?

I like the basic class of though. Divine sorcerer makes something different from the cleric, and lesser spell repertoire makes it easier for SKs to keep tabs on what powers their templars have, the slower level 2 spell access somewhat represents the ''don't trust you yet'' progression of the templar in 2e, and more uses per day and versatility makes book keeping lighter for an essentially NPC class.

I guess you could simply have Templars choose a ''patron'' sorcerer king/queen, as a cleric. Perhaps this could change their assigned spell too. Anyways, you could simply state that Nibenay does not allow male templars to select him as a patron, much like a human cleric cannot select Moradin as a patron. Not too discriminatory.

The Templar-Wife of Nibenay Prestige class was already on my drawing board, but I had first intended to have all templar classes be prestige classes, as each city as a culture so different that it could indeed have produced different classes, and the female requirement was something I thought only a prestige class could accomodate . However, the trouble with the prestige class is that it would leave templars with 10 levels, not 20. Then again, why not a High Templar prestige class to fill the rest. This could actually work though...

You need 5 levels to get the prestige, then 10 levels of templar, then 5 of High Templar. You get spells at sorcerer rate for the templar levels, and then twice that rate (+2 spellcaster levels) for each high templar levels. Nice ability, represents the fast progression of high templars of 2e, and not unbalancing against other classes since the faster progression only kicks in at 16th level, where other classes already have 16 caster levels. Add a few ''Secular Authorityish'' powers and it would look nice.

But still... I'm not sure...



Feb 06, 2004 17:23:35
Perhaps this could change their assigned spell too.

I was musing over something similar earlier today Differing assigned lists for each sk migt be interesting - plenty flavour. I haven't actually gone and looked at the lists properly yet, mind you...

It might be interesting to come up with an alternate templars-as-prestige-class (what with all the other core classes being presented as prcls in new books at the moment). I like the idea that you have to pledge yourself to an sk and prove yourself without templar magic/powers first before qualifiying for your spellcasting "wings"...


Feb 06, 2004 18:46:43
Originally posted by Kamelion
I like the idea that you have to pledge yourself to an sk and prove yourself without templar magic/powers first before qualifiying for your spellcasting "wings"...

With the Nibenese Female requisite I mentionned earlier, this is what made me go towards the prestige class idea first. Not only do I like the concept you so described, but it actually supports much of the original material...

Starting Templars did not get any spells, and low level templars were said to be assigned to guard duties or low military functions as often as administrative ones. So, templars could easily have been drawn from functionaries or soldiers (i.e. Aristocrats, Experts, Fighters, Rogues...) Urikite templars could have high fighter like requisites, while gulgan templars would have some ranger skills needed. Balican Templars would have have roguish applicants, Nibenese Templar-wives might be drawn from accomplished young Aristocrats (I know it's an NPC class, but Templars are almost an NPC class themselves).

But then, I got to wonder what kind of class the ex templars of tyr would have been drawn from. The Prism Pentad suggests that Tyran Templars were in fact almost never from the nobility, and a noble joining the templarate was looked down upon (Tithian almost got beat to death for it by his fellow nobles). So aristocrats would not be good candidates for the Templar class. What then? Fighters maybe, or rogues... Didn't quite fit (though it could). So maybe the Templar base class is ok.

However, I'd hate to trash the idea of the different Templar Prestige classes, even if the base class exists, But it seems kind of strange that a templar could conceivably get to level 20 without ever taking the prestige class of her city. I initially thought this was a little like the wizard / red wizard difference of Thay in FR, but those wizards who don't take up the prestige simply don't take part in the organisation. Now that's a hard thing to do for Templars... So a prestige class that's not the only way to be part of the templarate of the city is kinda weird...

Hmm... I'll have to think about it some more... I'd be glad to hear other peoples thoughts on this...


Feb 06, 2004 22:37:40
Aren't Nibenese templars suppose to be Nibenay's wives? I don't think anyone would want to play a male Nibenese templar given what they may have to do for the SK, Nibenay!


Feb 07, 2004 3:36:55
Don't let rules ruin your game, they are there to make the game easier and more fun.
If you want to have male Nibenese templars, then you can have it, if you don't, then don't have them.
But as Ral of Tyr said, it would be illogical to have male Nibenese templars. But if Nibenay is gay in your game, then I don't have anything to say


Feb 07, 2004 5:26:31
Ack! NOoooo! You'll ruin the #1 reason why Nib is the coolest and most suave SK out there.

Nib being gay. Sheesh. Nibenay is Da Man. And don't you forget that.


Feb 07, 2004 14:04:39
I was thinking more along what Roman Emperors would do. They had ultimate power and the power to have sex with anybody they wanted, anybody. I often thought of Sorcerer Kings like a Roman Emperor, decadant with ultimate political power and ultimate supernatural power.

My guess is that all the SK have done that at least once in their immortal lives. Their tastes could also change. Nibenay could have had only male templars a thousand years ago etc.

Methinks the closer you are to a dragon/avangion, the less interested you become in "human affairs". Nibenay probably is not interested and probably only has female templars because he knows how to control them better.

Nibenay's da dragon!


Feb 07, 2004 14:56:51
Hmmm . . . Balic always seemed the most 'roman' of all the city-states. Maybe Andropoinis flip flopped the fence a few times here and there.

Actually, Roman permiscuity wasn't so prominent at all times in its history. Ceaser had a rough time in his early political years because of a single trist with a French Chieftan/Lord while he was in the military. The rumor was that the Lord agreed to open peace negotiations if he could spend one night with the cute sergent; Ceaser claims he agreed 'For My Country'. Even the later 'decadent' Emperors like Caligula and Nero had their reps tarnished more from their frisky natures than from their mismanagement of the country. "When in Rome, don't do as the Emperor does." seems the key phrase.


Feb 07, 2004 22:28:06
I admit I know nothing in that domain.

Was there ever at one time an advanced culture, I'm thinking asian, that did not see sex between people the way europeans saw it in general?
A people whose values in relation to sex were unrelated to what we have now? Values different enough that same-sex relations would not be strange, but culturaly ingrained.
That a man could tell another: «This room is where the woman stay, and here is for the man.» While the other man nods and agrees on this perfectly sensible and reasonnable thing.
I would imagine the heroes and gods of their myths doing freely as they which.

Ring a bell?


Feb 07, 2004 23:47:01
Nibenay's wife/templar thing is entirely a case of personal preference and has nothing to do with any restrictions on his ability to grant templar powers. In principle, he could grant those abilities to anyone he likes, and "marrying" them has nothing to do with it.

However, he seems to be a big fan of polygamy, and also thinks that he gets a greater sense of devotion out of his wives/cultists so that's the way he runs things. Of course, Siemhouk has been a templar since she was a little a girl, and while I wouldn't put it past Nibenay to show a little girl his "dragon", I prefer not to dwell too heavily on the notion and assume he just gives her her spells.


Feb 08, 2004 19:06:46
Was there ever at one time an advanced culture, I'm thinking asian, that did not see sex between people the way europeans saw it in general?

Not that I'm the foremost athority or anything, but I think that the Greeks were a culture most known for homosexual acceptability, however I'm not sure to what degree. Its quite likely that this cultural trait passed on to the Romans, but the Greeks viewed Rome as a bunch of barbarians, even at the height of the Roman Empire. I don't know of any Asian or even African cultures that accepted homosexuals activity very well. Of course, there's always the public view of unacceptance mixed with the personal view of tolerance; history almost never paints a clear picture of the personal viewpoint of any culture.


Feb 08, 2004 20:15:13
Yeah, all this is really what I had in mind when I started this topic...