* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Pacing of PC advancement Started at 08-01-07 03:37 PM by casimps1 Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=897967 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : casimps1 Date : 08-01-07 03:37 PM Thread Title : Pacing of PC advancement After running my group through about three 4-hour sessions of B-series modules at 1st-level, and at the pace they are picking up XP, several should be 2nd-level by the end of another session. So I wanted to get some opinions on what everyone thinks is a "good" amount of time between level advancement for characters. Let's keep it simple and just say how many 4-hour sessions do you think it should take to advance a single level. I do realize this may be an oversimplification - I know different classes have different XP cutoffs. I know that advancement may also come much slower at later levels. I'm just looking for a rule of thumb. Also, as a related side question - do you prefer giving out XP at the end of a session or at the end of an adventure (which could span multiple sessions)? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : JohnJohn Date : 08-01-07 03:50 PM Thread Title : Re: Pacing of PC advancement I always do xp awards at the end of a session that way everyone (including me) remembers who did what and who was present for it. While you don't have to have done much to be included in the xp award for a given encounter you do have to at least be present at the time of the encounter :) . As for how fast? Being level 1 is fun but it isn't that fun so depending how much time was spent actually playing and how much time was spent table talking or what have you... about two sessions to get to level 2, 2-3 for level 3 it just depends on what the party was doing. I ran B2 keep on the borderlands way back when and doing that module didn't take that long... completing it took maybe 3-4 sessions (about 6-7 hours per session) when they were done I think the party was about level 3 to 4. I do remember we had to get the expert rules about then. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : tankschmidt Date : 08-02-07 12:23 PM Thread Title : Re: Pacing of PC advancement Our game night typically lasts about 3-4 hours. I like to go 2-3 sessions before second level and then let the rate slow down more as levels increase. Several players in the group, however, learned to play with 3.x, and they think they should level every session. I completely don't understand them. Can anyone help me out here? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : casimps1 Date : 08-02-07 02:14 PM Thread Title : Re: Pacing of PC advancement Several players in the group, however, learned to play with 3.x, and they think they should level every session. I completely don't understand them. Can anyone help me out here? I don't have a lot of experience with 3e players, but I think this is probably more an issue of players wanting some kind of improvement/advancement each session rather than necessarily leveling. In that case I think you have more options available to appease the players. You can have them find magical items during the course of a session, preferably limited use items to avoid having too many magic items in the game too early. Alternately, you can have them find permanent magic items, then have them taken away from the player at a later time by having them imprisoned or something. Then you could even make an adventure out of getting their stuff back. Kind of a 2 steps forward, 1 step back approach. That way, they "feel" like they're advancing more frequently, but in the grand scheme of things it's not going too fast. Another option is having the players gain fame or notoriety during the course of a session. Goods at the shop are cheaper because they helped out the village. People at the tavern are more likely to talk to them leading to more quests. A nice thing about this is that fame could be localized to a single town. When the PCs have to go to another town they start back at zero with another goal to achieve of winning over the new citizens. For the magic-users, gaining new spells could also be a great reward. And if the new spell helps the whole party, the whole party will feel like they are getting stronger. I think these kinds of rewards that are alternatives to XP would keep players happy while still keeping character advancement to the pace you like. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : JohnJohn Date : 08-02-07 02:47 PM Thread Title : Re: Pacing of PC advancement 3.5 put in some subtle changes. I think quite a few people that were used to 3.0 still get surprised now and again. In 3.0 the way you figured out xp awards Total the levels of the pcs and divide by the number of the pcs. Take this average and compare to the CR of each encounter. Divide by the number of PCs and get everyones xp. Or at least thats how I remember it. 3.5 You just take a PC's level (and/or ECL if they have one) Look on the CR table and write down the xp for every encounter for that pc. Then divide by the number of PC's. Theres no averaging in there, doesn't matter what level other pcs are etc. So yeah 3.5 lets character level pretty darn fast especially if you have some higher level PCs the lower level ones traveling with them can in effect be power leveled. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Gryllmyre Date : 08-02-07 05:43 PM Thread Title : Re: Pacing of PC advancement These approximations are for 3.x, by the way. Even though a group of 4 PC's will raise every 13 or so encounters of EL equal to their party level, battles take a lot longer as they raise because of other complexities (buff spells, summoning, more combatants, more hp to chew through, etc.). I'd say 8-12 hours for each level from 1st-4th level is fair. After that, it might take 12-16 hours for each level from 5th to 7th? Then maybe, I dunno 16-20 hours per level from 8th to 10th. After that, you're possibly looking at 20+ hours for each level, depending on how complex the fights are. It took me over 40 sessions to DM a player through Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, raising him from 4th to 14th. Each session ranged from 3 to 7 hours, with a break for lunch and various off-topic conversation. These are just guesses based on my DMing. As for levelling every session, well that may be possible in the first few levels. After that, ha, good luck. I give out XP per fight and ask to have the next level for a PC mostly prepared so we can continue. Barring that, XP at the end of a session works. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : RobertFisher Date : 08-03-07 12:59 PM Thread Title : Re: Pacing of PC advancement Several players in the group, however, learned to play with 3.x, and they think they should level every session. The funny thing is that when my group plays 3e, we get kind of annoyed that we keep levelling before we've really had a chance to exercise the shiny bits we acquired with the previous level. The effect of both adding lots of shiny mechanical bits & increasings the rate of levelling combined can be dizzying. Back when I still wanted to DM 3e, I really wanted to run a campaign that broke the connection between levels & XP. Just wait until we all agree that we'd really explored the current level to bump the party's level. If I do run a d20-variant in the future, I'll probably use a different XP progression than stock 3e. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Varl Date : 08-04-07 01:04 PM Thread Title : Re: Pacing of PC advancement I don't worry about leveling up when I play a character. I'll get there when I get there. I don't have to know, in fact, I'd prefer if I didn't know my XPs. I'll never understand 3e's desire to try and streamline level progression into a constant, predictable quota. It's about the adventures, not my micromanaging of XPs. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:23 AM.