|#1zombiegleemaxFeb 20, 2004 23:15:52||Hello everyone, I was wondering if there are other "Supreme Rulers" out there for the Yugoloths, Slaad, Rilmani, and Guardinals respectively?|
If so, what are the names, personalities, and appearences of these beings? I have not heard, or read of any Exemplars other than Primus, if someone has any info or opinions on this topic, please, enlighten us all with your knowledge.
|#2OrnumFeb 20, 2004 23:27:57||Well, the yugoloth leader is either the General of Gehenna, the Oinoloth, or the race known as the Baernoloths, depending on your opinion of the given information. (Several sources that include Hellbound: The Blood War, and the Liber Malevolentiae from the Planes of Conflict boxed set)|
Prince Talisid, a leonal, is the leader of the guardinals. He is accompanied by five companions who are the foremost members of the other guardinal races. (See the Liver Benevolentiae from the Planes of Conflict boxed set)
The Rilmani are rumored to be led by Center of All, but he could just be fiction spread by the rilmani, themselves. (Not sure on a source, but I'm sure that our Center of All knows something)
I have no idea if there is an individual at the head of the pecking order for the Slaadi. I just assume that the death slaad are the most powerful and lead as a group.
|#3zombiegleemaxFeb 20, 2004 23:43:57||The slaad are "ruled" by the most powerful Slaad Lord Ssendam. I believe Ssendam looks like a yellow amoeba with a brain inside. The second most powerful slaad lord is Ygorl who, if Ssendam is the amoeba, appears to be a grim reaper type figure (I may be wrong and those two descriptions may need to be flipped.)|
|#4Shemeska_the_MarauderFeb 20, 2004 23:52:30||The Slaadi aren't 'ruled' per say by the Slaadi Lords. The Slaadi Lords just are the most powerful of their kind and at whimsy or design can force their lesser brethren to follow their directives.|
The known Slaadi Lords:
Ygorl the Slaad Lord of Entropy
Ssendaam the Slaad Lady of Insanity
Chourst the Slaad Lord of Randomness
Renbuu the Slaad Lord of Colors
Bazim-Gorag the lesser Slaad Lord (of flame?)
Ygorl and Ssendaam are the beings who created the spawning stone that regulates the form and caste of Slaadi. It imposes order on a naturally chaotic race, all in the name of preventing the spontaneous rise of beings of chaos more powerful than Ssendaam and Ygorl themselves. Betrayal of their nature for power, I like it...
The Yugoloths, aside from the unique ones mentioned already have some others known as the Altraloths. They're a class of Yugoloths that made deals with powerful hag covens to serve them for a time in exchange for greater power. When their service is over, they're free to make their own way. Bubonix, Cholerix, Typhus, Taba, Cerlic/Charon, Anthraxus, and Xenghara are the known Altraloths.
There's also some other more powerful ones that aren't Altraloths such as the Keeper of the Tower of the Arcanaloths, the current Oinoloth Mydianchlarus, etc.
Mostly those 'Yugoloth Lords' don't neccessarily command vast swaths of 'loth society themselves, they just make their own way as they wish in a class above the standard heirarchy to an extent. Most of the day to day ruling is done by the Yagnoloths (to make sure the Ultraloths don't have to worry about the Arcanaloths and Nycaloths more than anything else...). The convoluted politics of enforced will by beings who care for nothing but the supreme might of the individuals over others of their ilk. The elevation of the self regardless of morality is all there is...
|#5Shemeska_the_MarauderFeb 20, 2004 23:54:00|
Originally posted by Primus, the One and Prime
No, you're correct. However I was always under the impression that the two of them ruled jointly in many ways, or at least didn't mess with the other since the creation of the Spawning Stone out of the realization that they both exemplified the apex of their species and needed each other to ensure that would always be the case.
*shrug* I may be mistaken.
|#6zombiegleemaxFeb 21, 2004 0:02:40||Concerning the Loths': |
I thought Yugoloths promoted, practiced and fought for Evil for its own sake?
If they do have a supreme ruler, it would probably be
A. Very Powerful
B. Very, Very Evil
C. Very, Very Scary
And diffenitely someone I would NOT want to meet in any case
Concerning the Slaad:
So the Slaad are ruled by two supreme rulers, or are they fronts for a being of Pure Chaos that nobody knows about?
Concerning the Guardinals:
Prince Talisid, is he as powerful as Primus?
Concerning the Rilmani:
Is Center of All the Spire?
I also heard somewhere that the Lady of Pain was the Rilmani's supreme ruler, but I doubt that, since I also heard she was also once the supreme ruler of the Bladelings(And a Former Tanar'ri lord, and all number of other outlandish rumors)
|#7zombiegleemaxFeb 21, 2004 0:05:01||I read something that said that Ygorl was jealous of Ssendam's power and was jealous of the 'higher' slaad. My information on the beings of chaos is, of course, somewhat limited.|
Now, as for exemplars, I believe you are misusing the term. An exemplar is a race of beings that are born of the essence of a particular alignment. While the Rakshasa are quite Evil and the Aasimon are extremely Good neither have the same bond to their alignments that Baatezu and Guardinals do. Baatezu and Guardinals, therefore, are Exemplars.
From your indication of myself as your only known exemplar I conclude that you mean a higher ruling creature that completely embodies an alignment. I am, of course, the supreme paragon of Law. The lower modrons all defer to me as my leader.
The other races of Lawful exemplars also have such leaders, though being tainted by other alignments their supremacy is not as absolute as mine. Asmodeus is the uncontested ruler of Baator while, either Zaphkiel or his mysterious patron rule the Archons.
Moving away from the Planes of Order the distinctions between leaders blur. Talisid seems to be the ruler of the Guardinals, though he rarely 'leads' them in any way. On the flip side, the General of Gehenna is the ruler of the Yugoloths though, for the most part, he remains aloof from the race's overall agenda.
Upon enterring the Planes of Chaos it is all blown away. The Court of Stars, the Slaad Lords, and the Demon Princes while all more powerful than their fellows do not seem to be the unifying forces that one would expect of true representatives of alignment 9although technically a certain randomness does exempify the alignment. Madness.)
|#8Shemeska_the_MarauderFeb 21, 2004 0:49:34||Yugoloths have an interesting dichotomy going on with their goals and aims:|
Yugoloths as exemplars of pure evil untainted by law or chaos are on one level utterly devoted to the promotion and supremacy of abstract evil in the multiverse, and they'll do anything to foster that further.
They are also the ultimate believers in the importance of themselves on an individual basis as the only important thing in their existance. They will go to any length to further their own power and advancement. This includes betraying any other member of their race. The infighting amongst the Yugoloth heirarchy is bitter and freakishly rampant at times.
However if their race is ever threatened, or the overall goal of their race assaulted they as a collective being almost end their petty squabbles and infighting in favor of repulsing that outside threat. This happens with remarkable speed.
They may be bound by their makers the Baernaloths to shed their rampant lust for individual power when faced by a threat to the goals of the Baern.
|#9zombiegleemaxFeb 21, 2004 0:50:15||Regarding Shemi's words:|
So the Baern are the true rulers of the Yugoloths. I'd imagine that the Yugoloth's paragon would also be the supreme ruler of the Baern(And a very scary SOB of PURE EVIL!)
Regarding Primus' words:
What you say does make sense Primus, as chaos generally, by its very nature, lacks a strong, central ruler.
Is it also possible, that "Paragons" and the Exemplar races that follow them could exist for the other Outer Planes as well, like Arcadia for instance(And the Gehreleths and Apomps don't count)
For instance, the Outer Plane of Pandemonium reprisents the darker side of chaos, the chaos of the mind known as madness.
Could their be a race lurking in Pandemonium representing madness incarnate?(Imagines a race of Cthulthu like beings floating and slithering around the caves amid the howling wind).
What would such a race's paragon be like?
|#10factol_rhys_dupFeb 21, 2004 12:21:12|
Originally posted by Primus, the One and Prime
Primus must have a chaos imp in his memory circuits. You mean aasimar are not exemplars. Aasimon are celestials and exemplars.
|#11primemover003Feb 21, 2004 13:05:21||Actually Rhys I would say Aasimon may be exemplars but they don't really fit the mold as they are any of the good alignments, not a specific one like the guardinals, the Archons, and the eladrin. The "Angels" are a kind of all encompassing race.|
|#12zombiegleemaxFeb 21, 2004 13:25:53||*nods* Aasimon aren't exemplars in the same sense (notably because there are no lawful, chaotic or evil race corresponding to them)|
|#13factol_rhys_dupFeb 21, 2004 13:59:38||What? I feel like I've been living a lie! Aasimon not exemplars? They're made from the essence of good, isn't that enough? I don't think they should be ruled out just because they aren't limited to one specific alignment. But they would mess up the exemplar scheme, wouldn't they, of having one race for each of the nine alignments.|
|#14zombiegleemaxFeb 21, 2004 15:37:36||The Aasimon could still be Exemplars, just not of one of the "Pure" Planes of the Nine Alignments(Baator, Mt. Celestia etc) their is nothing prohibiting other Outer Planes from having representive races.|
|#15ripvanwormerFeb 22, 2004 0:12:34|
Originally posted by Shemeska the Marauder
The slaadi don't do anything jointly. Ssendam, Mother of Insanity, is an inscrutable alien creature who barely seems to notice anything but herself. Ygorl is the one who plots and schemes. He is Lord of Entropy, and he is everything the death slaadi strive to be.
Creating the Spawning Stone seems out of character for both of them, however. I've never liked that explanation for slaad appearance, and can't think of a way to make it work.
I'd rather just say that slaadi look like frogs because the form is mythologically significant. Which it is. Symbols are powerful in the Outer Planes.
Perhaps Ssendam was once more proactive than she is now, and had some obscure destiny in mind that the Spawning Stone works to create. Perhaps Ygorl believed limiting slaadi forms would advance the cause of Entropy. Death slaadi seem to be impure variants anyway, and Ygorl may be the cause of that.
|#16ripvanwormerFeb 22, 2004 0:20:35|
Originally posted by Sword_Of_Geddon
The aasimon, or angels as they are called on the Prime, are the servants of the gods of good. They are not the only divine servitors - entities from valkyries and einherjar to advanced harpies and demons and Minions of Set fall in the same class.
However, some aasimon are also part of the hierarchy of archons, and as such some of them are manifestations of law and good as much as standard archons are. Examples include Xerona, who guards the bridge to the Seventh Heaven. She is a solar, but also very definitely of the archons.
Some of them serve the gods of chaos instead. Some seem to serve the upper planes directly, as this article makes explicit.
|#17factol_rhys_dupFeb 22, 2004 11:21:58||Hmm... idea... there are some creatures of the outer planes that are not truly exemplar, but are more than just planars. "Divine servitors" is an excellent name (and credit goes to ripvanwormer for giving me this name) for creatures like einheriar, pers, minions of Set, avatars, and aleaxes. Just a term for creatures which are generally created from more abstract substance than normal mortals, but are made and commanded by deities rather than rising from the planes themselves.|
|#18OrnumFeb 22, 2004 16:01:04|
Originally posted by Shemeska the Marauder
Yeah for me! I went to a local gaming store and found (and purchased) the Ethereal Guide, PSMMI & II (both of which I already had, but my friend "misplaced" them ), Dragon issue #213 that was dedicated to the planes, and Dragon Annual #2, which contained the information on the above mentioned Altraloths. I'm happy now.
|#19factol_rhys_dupFeb 22, 2004 16:29:09||Wow, Ornum, you have my deepest respect for finding those PS books.|
|#20OrnumFeb 22, 2004 17:01:41||Sadly, what I bought was all that the store had in the Planescape line, and since it is the only such store in this town, I'm going to have to either keep an eye on E-bay for the other books I need, or travel about 100 miles away to a chain in a city that I used to live in to try and find what else I need. Currently, I'm still hunting for the Inner Planes Guide, the Astral Guide, MMIII, Faction War, Tales of the Infinite Stair Case, Doors to the Unknown, On Hallowed Ground, The Factol's Manifesto, The Planewalker's Handbook, In the Cage: A Guide to Sigil, and Uncaged: The Faces of Sigil. A large list, to be sure.|
On topic, on the RoE boards, Ripvamwormer gave me some links to the Slaad Lords, so I'll share them here. Everybody, remember to thank Rip for these.
|#21bonemageMar 10, 2004 13:35:43||I would post something in the marketplace forum here and watch Ebay. But don't you dare try and steal an Inner Planes Supplement from me or I will cut off your hands! That is the last supplement I need to complete my Planescape collection. |
Sorry to get off topic guys.
|#22zombiegleemaxMar 11, 2004 4:27:33||To those looking for PS stuff:|