* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Suggestions for letting PCs know combat difficulty Started at 08-02-07 03:57 PM by casimps1 Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=898725 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : casimps1 Date : 08-02-07 03:57 PM Thread Title : Suggestions for letting PCs know combat difficulty For a group of players that are completely new to D&D and playing a combat-oriented game, walking into a room with a kobold probably results in the same player reaction as walking into a room with an ogre - namely, "Ooh, there's a monster, should/can we kill it?" The players don't really know what the abilities or power level of any given creature is. I think giving this information to players is essential to them knowing whether they can fight their way out of a situation or not. Describing creatures in terms of levels or hit dice probably paints the clearest picture of difficulty, but breaks the illusion of storytelling. How, as a DM, can you effectively give clues to the players concerning how powerful a particular creature is? Do you assume that the characters are familiar with typical creatures and would know how dangerous one is? So far, I've dealt with this with simple descriptive text saying that a creature looks really big and strong or frail and small... but this feels like a weak solution. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : SamualT Barronsword Date : 08-02-07 06:50 PM Thread Title : Re: Suggestions for letting PCs know combat difficulty For a group of players that are completely new to D&D... Do you assume that the characters are familiar with typical creatures and would know how dangerous one is? Depends on the where the character(s) are from (city born and raised versus someone raised on the edge of civilization), what class they are, and how "common" the monster is within the campaign setting being played. I assume all PC's would recognize and have a general idea about the normal capabilities of the very most common forms of creatures. In my campaign that would be orcs, humans and demi-humans, kobolds and goblins (although not necessarily able to tell which is which), spiders, snakes, wolves and other common animals, ogres and giants (that is that they are big and hit hard, and that the bigger they are, generally, the harder they hit). They would recognise a dragon in dragon form if they saw one, but would not necessarily be able to know its capababilities. I would expect them to know all dragons are powerful, that red dragons breath fire but other colored dragons have different breath weapons, and that gold dragons have a reputation for being good. I would expect that they know that there are such things as shapechangers in the world such as werewolves, and powerful undead such as vampires, and that in some cases these creatures can only be destroyed by magic or silver weapons. I assume Rangers are more knowledgable of the types of creatures found on the borderlands than any other class. I assume rangers are able to recognise hobgoblins from orcs, as well as knowing what gnolls, bugbears, owlbears griffons, hippogriffs, centaurs, ankehg, trolls, stirge and treants are and what they can do in general terms (They would know you must burn a troll to keep it from regenerating). Rangers can tell a goblin from a kobold, and a hill giant from an ogre or a fire giant. They can recognize all but the rarest of normal animals found in the area they normally operate in. Rangers are better able to extrapolate what the capabilities of a giant version of a normal animal might be. I assume druids can tell what all natural animals (including insects) are, and what the are capable of, and can tell what giant versions of these creatures are cabable of. A druid would know about many "living" plants, like shambling mounds, but not those that were unique or from areas far from his home environment. I assume clerics and paladins have some idea of what undead look like and are capable of. They can probably identify skeletons and zombies and ghouls as being what they are, they probably have an idea about what a shadow is. They probably know that there are powerful undead whose touch can drain life levels and that ghost can age you, and that these more powerful undead can only be harmed by magic weapons or spells. Magic users probably know that its possible to animate inanimate objects to attack people, and that such things as golems exist. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Gryllmyre Date : 08-02-07 11:50 PM Thread Title : Re: Suggestions for letting PCs know combat difficulty I suppose you could provide hints with descriptions. The ogre doesn't just wield a club, he wields a huge club. The snake hisses, revealing fangs dripping with green fluid. The wraith charges, and you can all feel your life force weakening in its presence, etc. Then, after some experience facing these creatures, PC's will know that facing large humanoids with big clubs means they will take a lot of damage per hit and should take precautions (webbing them so that only a few can reach the party at a time, slowing them to reduce their swings, or weakening their strength with an enfeeblement spell). It helps to introduce them to creatures in a not-so-difficult encounter, and then make the future encounters harder since they are armed with more information. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Llwch Date : 08-03-07 02:28 AM Thread Title : Re: Suggestions for letting PCs know combat difficulty How, as a DM, can you effectively give clues to the players concerning how powerful a particular creature is? Do you assume that the characters are familiar with typical creatures and would know how dangerous one is? Descriptive text is probably the best way... if they approach a cave, and the entrance is strewn with bones... They might get the hint. In all seriousness, descriptive text is the best way to communicate potential risk. Need a little help on getting the theme right? Take some time, and watch "Raiders of the Lost Ark", "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" and "Alien". All three movies are very powerful (ok, maybe not so much the Holy Grail, but you must admit that the first time you watched it, the cave the killer bunny was at did freak you out at first), and use evocative imagery to make their point. And don't just stick with visuals, either. Smell is a powerful sense, as is hearing and touch. Use more than just the visual spectrum, and (if done right) you'll have them leaving brownies in the pants. Lastly, I wouldn't even bother telling them if the creature looks easy, tough, or whatever. Then, your game will be little more than a senseless hack and slash (which, quite often, will quickly lose its lustre and fade in enjoyment for everyone). The other problem with doing that is this creates in your players the mindset that all creatures met are to be defeated. Want to break them of their bloodthirst? Put in some good-aligned creatures (though this only works if the entire group is itself good-aligned). When they attack, suddenly your clerics and paladins lose contact with their deities... And the players themselves get a very non-heroic reputation. Another strategy to break them of this mindset is to introduce opponents that look weak, but really aren't. In my PBEM, the group found themselves fighting a group of (what they supposed) were a half dozen gnomes. Surprise, surprise! They were spriggans... and nearly did a number on several of the PCs. Hope all this helps... Remember the most important rule, though: have fun! (don't forget, maintaining the mystique and mystery of the game is what makes the game fun!) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : RobertFisher Date : 08-03-07 01:29 PM Thread Title : Re: Suggestions for letting PCs know combat difficulty I assume all PC's would recognize and have a general idea about the normal capabilities of the very most common forms of creatures. Yeah. The first question is what the PCs would know about the monsters. You have to fill that in for them. Second is the description of the monster. Third is their own observations. Here's a thought: Provide an opportunity for the PCs to witness the monster's prowess without it directly attacking the PCs themselves. Perhaps they see it pouncing on other prey. Perhaps it makes a show of strength to try to scare them off. And, of course, a good sign that the lone kobold really isn't much of a threat is the fact that he beats feet upon sight of the party. (^_^) Oh, & there actually is an alternative to the DM explicitly telling the players what the PCs know about the monster, which can be kind of fun. You treat the monster book sort of as an in-milieu bestiary. Therefore, the stats & information contained in it are have no guarantee of being "true" than real bestiaries were. Then you make sure you change details about monsters when you use them. The more uncommon the creature, the more leeway you should give yourself. Just make sure that you make it clear to the players that they should treat the monster book as hearsay instead of rules. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:23 AM.