Plagiarism vs. Fairuse? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Plagiarism vs. Fairuse?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
rumblebelly
Mar 02, 2004 23:50:40 Here's something I'm very conflicted about. Having been a TA for several writing and linguistics classes and an academically honest student for most of my life, I now find myself in a bit of an ethical dilema.

I have written a History, Theory and Practice of magic in the Flanaess document that pulls together material from several RPG sourcebooks, including Talislanta and Rolemaster.

The problem is that I have copied some of this material verbatim, because I intended it to be used only by myself and my players and I just wanted all the information together in an easy to read and use format.

However, I got a little carried away and at the end of it all its a little over 30 pages. Now I'm thinking: wow, this is really kind of good and it's too bad that I can't share it with the Greyhawk community. I'd say about 60% of the writing is my original work, but the other 40% is either based on or copied verbatim from other people's work.

My question then is this: if I wanted to share this with the rest of the roleplaying community, what would be considered fairuse. How much would I have to go back and put into my own words, or would it just be enough to put up a disclaimer citing my sources and the fact that some of the text is verbatim? What about tables and such?

I don't want to offend or do wrong by the authors whose work I used. In fact I appreciate what they've done and therefore based the rules of my campaign upon their efforts.

I know if I were still in school I'd have to put things in quotations marks and all that, but now that I'm out and can't devote my life to writing and revising, and more to the point, I don't necessarily remember what exactly I copied word for word (although many passive sentences is a clue, because I tend to avoid them).

Please share your thoughts with me.

I would like to share this compilation with you if I can do it legally and ethically.
#2
zombiegleemax
Mar 03, 2004 1:01:14 I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. If I were personally concerned with the matters you are, I would do the following.

If you would like to keep it as is, I'd start the work off with a statement pertaining to the fact that the content is partially from official works of various origins.

Then, I'd quote the exact reference (perhaps even page and column) and author (and company) before each instance of verbatim. Furthermore, I'd probably italicize the content that is verbatim to clearly seperate it from the content that is original.

Obviously the better, although more time consuming, option is to go back and throw everything into your own words. Even using this method it is usually best to at least acknowledge what sources your work is drawn from, if any, in the form of a reference or similiar.

At 60/40, it would certainly be an undertaking. That would be a full 12 pages out of the 30 that would need reworking, but my guess is that you would be much more proud of it if you could claim it your own after coercing yourself into doing the work.

I'm sure others on these forums will have better and more informing input than I.

Personally, I hope you re-do the work, though I look forward to seeing your contribution to Greyhawk!
#3
ranger_reg
Mar 03, 2004 2:13:24 See My Disclaimer Below...

The following is non-legal advice:

If in doubt, go and secure permissions FIRST. If they say no, delete their material from your work.

Otherwise, do not distribute. Just use it for your own personal use.

Unless you truly can convince the court that your material is used for educational or review/criticism purpose (the basis of the Fair Use Policy), assume your game material is for entertainment purpose.
#4
zombiegleemax
Mar 03, 2004 2:55:38 Why not rewrite it from scratch? I mean no offense by this, but often amatuer writers overwrite and even professional writers can wag on too much. Reorganizing and rewriting things for conciseness and simplicity, and ease of reading, especially if you did it by only using the original as a template for the sections and you don't actually edit or rewrite, could make it more legitimate.

That way, you're not even paraphrasing the other people's works. Even if there are similar ideas in there, you'll at least have the comfort of having written the entire thing yourself.

You may even find yourself inspired to introduce some new concepts or change things around.
#5
rumblebelly
Mar 03, 2004 14:00:58
Originally posted by Iksander
Why not rewrite it from scratch? I mean no offense by this, but often amatuer writers overwrite and even professional writers can wag on too much. Reorganizing and rewriting things for conciseness and simplicity, and ease of reading, especially if you did it by only using the original as a template for the sections and you don't actually edit or rewrite, could make it more legitimate.

That way, you're not even paraphrasing the other people's works. Even if there are similar ideas in there, you'll at least have the comfort of having written the entire thing yourself.

You may even find yourself inspired to introduce some new concepts or change things around.

Ah, heck. You guys are right. It already took me many hours to produce this document, what's a few more to make it my own? I think what I'll do is go back and rewrite it in E-prime, which is, for those not familiar with it, basically the English language with all instances of the verb 'be' purged from it. This goes a very long way in changing content. There are many philosphical reasons for doing this according to proponents of E-prime, but for me it will just be a fun exercise, and a good start to revising and taking the verbatim chunks out.

I guess I'll put myself back into my "school shoes" and footnote references and all that just for good measure. The Talislanta crew might actually be very happy about the final product, because in the end you'll still need to own the 4th ed. Talislanta rules to understand how to put the magic system in effect.

Thanks for the discussion on this matter!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 rumblebelly Mar 02, 2004 23:50:40	Here's something I'm very conflicted about. Having been a TA for several writing and linguistics classes and an academically honest student for most of my life, I now find myself in a bit of an ethical dilema. I have written a History, Theory and Practice of magic in the Flanaess document that pulls together material from several RPG sourcebooks, including Talislanta and Rolemaster. The problem is that I have copied some of this material verbatim, because I intended it to be used only by myself and my players and I just wanted all the information together in an easy to read and use format. However, I got a little carried away and at the end of it all its a little over 30 pages. Now I'm thinking: wow, this is really kind of good and it's too bad that I can't share it with the Greyhawk community. I'd say about 60% of the writing is my original work, but the other 40% is either based on or copied verbatim from other people's work. My question then is this: if I wanted to share this with the rest of the roleplaying community, what would be considered fairuse. How much would I have to go back and put into my own words, or would it just be enough to put up a disclaimer citing my sources and the fact that some of the text is verbatim? What about tables and such? I don't want to offend or do wrong by the authors whose work I used. In fact I appreciate what they've done and therefore based the rules of my campaign upon their efforts. I know if I were still in school I'd have to put things in quotations marks and all that, but now that I'm out and can't devote my life to writing and revising, and more to the point, I don't necessarily remember what exactly I copied word for word (although many passive sentences is a clue, because I tend to avoid them). Please share your thoughts with me. I would like to share this compilation with you if I can do it legally and ethically.
#2 zombiegleemax Mar 03, 2004 1:01:14	I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. If I were personally concerned with the matters you are, I would do the following. If you would like to keep it as is, I'd start the work off with a statement pertaining to the fact that the content is partially from official works of various origins. Then, I'd quote the exact reference (perhaps even page and column) and author (and company) before each instance of verbatim. Furthermore, I'd probably italicize the content that is verbatim to clearly seperate it from the content that is original. Obviously the better, although more time consuming, option is to go back and throw everything into your own words. Even using this method it is usually best to at least acknowledge what sources your work is drawn from, if any, in the form of a reference or similiar. At 60/40, it would certainly be an undertaking. That would be a full 12 pages out of the 30 that would need reworking, but my guess is that you would be much more proud of it if you could claim it your own after coercing yourself into doing the work. I'm sure others on these forums will have better and more informing input than I. Personally, I hope you re-do the work, though I look forward to seeing your contribution to Greyhawk!
#3 ranger_reg Mar 03, 2004 2:13:24	See My Disclaimer Below... The following is non-legal advice: If in doubt, go and secure permissions FIRST. If they say no, delete their material from your work. Otherwise, do not distribute. Just use it for your own personal use. Unless you truly can convince the court that your material is used for educational or review/criticism purpose (the basis of the Fair Use Policy), assume your game material is for entertainment purpose.
#4 zombiegleemax Mar 03, 2004 2:55:38	Why not rewrite it from scratch? I mean no offense by this, but often amatuer writers overwrite and even professional writers can wag on too much. Reorganizing and rewriting things for conciseness and simplicity, and ease of reading, especially if you did it by only using the original as a template for the sections and you don't actually edit or rewrite, could make it more legitimate. That way, you're not even paraphrasing the other people's works. Even if there are similar ideas in there, you'll at least have the comfort of having written the entire thing yourself. You may even find yourself inspired to introduce some new concepts or change things around.
#5 rumblebelly Mar 03, 2004 14:00:58	Originally posted by Iksander Why not rewrite it from scratch? I mean no offense by this, but often amatuer writers overwrite and even professional writers can wag on too much. Reorganizing and rewriting things for conciseness and simplicity, and ease of reading, especially if you did it by only using the original as a template for the sections and you don't actually edit or rewrite, could make it more legitimate. That way, you're not even paraphrasing the other people's works. Even if there are similar ideas in there, you'll at least have the comfort of having written the entire thing yourself. You may even find yourself inspired to introduce some new concepts or change things around. Ah, heck. You guys are right. It already took me many hours to produce this document, what's a few more to make it my own? I think what I'll do is go back and rewrite it in E-prime, which is, for those not familiar with it, basically the English language with all instances of the verb 'be' purged from it. This goes a very long way in changing content. There are many philosphical reasons for doing this according to proponents of E-prime, but for me it will just be a fun exercise, and a good start to revising and taking the verbatim chunks out. I guess I'll put myself back into my "school shoes" and footnote references and all that just for good measure. The Talislanta crew might actually be very happy about the final product, because in the end you'll still need to own the 4th ed. Talislanta rules to understand how to put the magic system in effect. Thanks for the discussion on this matter!