Thus far, what I know is that Gith started an uprising against their Illithids slavers. They won their freedom and fled to the Astral. Their, Gith wanted revenge, but Zerthimon wanted to regroup and strenghten before continuing the war (right? 'Cuz I'm not sure there). The conflict erupted in civil war.
Then it's really fuzzy. Who did what, who appeared? What happened? I know that that some Vlakith somehow betrayed Gith, and that Gith went to meet Tiamat and never came back. But an alliance was forged with red dragons. I would like some details: where does Vlakith come from? Are there any details about about the actual betrayal?
And then, what happened?, all-out warfare stopped?
What about the Githzerai? What happened to Zerthimon?
Thanks in advance, I'm working on a plot that would involve these past events in some mojor way, but I would need to have some details.
"Zerthimon was a secondary leader of the Gith rebellion and possibly a consort to Gith herself. After the rebellion however Gith wished to continue on and obliterate the Illithids entirely, then stretch out across the former empire of Penumbra to forge an empire of her own to make sure the Gith would rise above and over their former masters with an empire of their own. Zerthimon would have none of this and preached that to do so would only make the Gith as wretched as the Illithids they had fought to gain their own freedom from. Thus the split between the races occurred, with Gith and her followers going to the Astral, and Zerthimon and his followers fleeing to Limbo."
"Zerthimon died while in Limbo. His teachings and worship of him are, at present, looked down upon by the current Githzerai Wizard-King who rules 'zerei soceity. The cult of Zerthimon is on the rise however."
"Vlaakith was a Githyanki wizard and advisor to Gith at the time immediately after the Gith rebellion versus the Illithids. She urged Vlaakith into seeking out allies for the 'yanki and to this end Gith descended to Baator to meet with Tiamat. She never returned. Ephelemon the Red Dragon consort of Tiamat appeared to Vlaakith afterwards saying that Gith would not be returning, but that Red Dragons would forever after be allies to her people. He gave the Rod of Ephelemon to Vlaakith as a symbol of this racial pact, and told her that Gith had proclaimed for her to lead in her place and bring prosperity to her people."
"Of course you have to assume that Vlaakith created a good bit of this history to suit her own needs. I think it most likely that she turned stag on Gith to advance herself. Likely Gith is dead or imprisoned in Baator, given over to Tiamat in exchange for advancing Vlaakith's own power. Help for the 'yanki race was secondary to that. And I can respect that."
*Yugolothy sneer*
"Of course now with Vlaakith dead and the rod of Ephelemon broken, we might assume that the pact between the Githyanki and Red Dragons is broken and dead. That leaves us wondering though at the fate of Gith herself. If she was killed, well that's a moot point. But if she was imprisoned as collateral for the deal she might be free now, and that's a frightening thought."
"As well, death is rarely an end to anything for mortals. The Blood War is fueled by you all, turned into wretched little twisting larvae, herded and sold as stock to the 'ri and 'zu. Disgusting little things mortals you..."
*trails off then smiles sweetly*
"I digress..."
"But returning to the point, I don't quite think that death will stop Vlaakith entirely. Many of her former followers may now begin to worship her in earnest as a deity, and in doing so she may actually become just that. Or Gith may be worshipped in full now to the same effect. Either of these would have severe repurcussions on the Githyanki people. Clerical powers among the 'yanki would outweigh the nullification of their racial pact with Red Dragons. Gods... filthy little mortal constructs... ugghh..."
"But again I digress..."
And about Zerthimon, no details? What about his death?
I'm really interested in details about the Rise and fall of Vlaakith. How did SHE died?
Originally posted by Brun
So, as I get it, there are no known facts about about Vlaakith beside the wizard thingy, right?
And about Zerthimon, no details? What about his death?
I'm really interested in details about the Rise and fall of Vlaakith. How did SHE died?
Well the original Vlaakith eventually died and the last Vlaakith was the Lich Queen, she was something like Vlaakith the 50something'th.
I honestly don't recall the details of Zerthimon's death, or even if it was ever elaborated on.
Vlaakith died as a result of the Incursion modules in Dungeon. However there's no garauntee that she'll stay dead. She might be returned from the dead by her Githyanki followers, or she might become a true deity from their worship. Or it might tie back into a return of Gith, there's lots of possibilities.
Originally posted by Brun
So that basically means I'm free to do as I wish with the death of the original Vlaakith and Zerthimon. Great news!
Yeppers, not that it should stop you from using a cool idea if there deaths had already been detailed fully. You can always rework stuff in the setting to fit a plot if you do it well. Heck, I've trashed some elements of the planes in my own campaign (ie killing off 3/4 of the unique Yugoloths by way of a civil war in the Waste).
You could just say that the legends surrounding the deaths of either the original Vlaakith and Zerthimon respectfully were self propagated legends and that one of them might yet be alive and in stasis. Or that the legends of their death might be false to prevent what 'really' happened from being known. Ie imagine the consequences of Zerthimon having changed his views late in life and sought to rejoin the Githyanki, he'd have likely been killed by his own followers who would have created a false legend surrounding how he died to prevent that horrific event from being known.
Of course, what really happened is that he sold out his people to the illithid in a moment of cowardice and later convinced the night hag Ravel to divest him of his mortality. Trust me on this - there is no other possible explanation!
-LZ
Originally posted by ripvanwormer
Zerthimon is like King Arthur, Sir Roland, Ogier the Dane, Rama, or Tupac Shakur - he died a heroic martyr's death during the initial war against the githyanki (called the Sundered Sky by the githzerai), but legend says he will return in the time of his peoples' greatest peril.
Umm... so all these guys died a heroic martyr's death during the initial war against the githyanki? ;)
Of course, what really happened is that he sold out his people to the illithid in a moment of cowardice and later convinced the night hag Ravel to divest him of his mortality. Trust me on this - there is no other possible explanation!
I second the foot eating proposition if Zertihmon turns out to be Floyd. And,
1 squiggle: Zerthimon, a former human slavedriver and Gith's lover, accuses the Liberator of allowing her hatred of the illithids to corrupt her into evil. He leads a third of the race in a search for a new paradise, but they end up in Limbo. Temporarily, he explains.
2 squiggle: The reign of Zerthimon. Considered to be the golden age. Rrakkma bands are introduced for the first time. The egg-laying gith degenerate rapidly and are banished to the Soup, where they attatch themselves to slaadi and other native creatures.
3 squiggle: Zerthimon fights his own impossible son during the First Coincidence War. Mortally wounded, he is carried into the soup on a barge rowed by three githzerai women no one has ever seen before. Apocryphal tales name one as Gith.
4 squiggle: the Time of Anarchy. The race is ruled by petty warlords.
Sound familiar? ;)
I liked that version more than the TNO one. But what I liked even better is
And as Zerthimon, First and King of the Githzerai, created his ring, his students began to understand. Such as Limbo was the origin of the Outer Planes; his hand was the origin of the ring he held. And such as Limbo was the place where all dreams gathered, so to spread within the Outer Planes, his hand was the potential realization of all of Zerthimon's dreams, and the ring was the manifestation of these. No single part of this flat ring of stone held the truth of Zerthimon's individuality, yet the First and King did not touch the entire Ring. It was his to choose, and his only duty was to choose.
'That I will tell you', did Zerthimon, First and King of the Githzerai, tell to his students. 'Within this ring lies the power of existence and devastation, of divinity and death. But my hand is the instrument to choose, and my hand is the instrument to let my dreams return to me, but with greater power, with greater reality. Such is the nature of Rings: Things always return, but not always as they have been before.'
And his students, though the wisest and most intelligent of Zerthimon's people, did understand only few of his words, for they had not even created their own Rings. But they realized, and so they promised to strive for creating Rings leading them to Greater Existence and True Dreams, so that one day they would lead even Limbo itself to a greater state of being.
When he heard their promise, Zerthimon, First and King of the Githzerai, smiled, and said: 'I have hope, for I know your dreams. You will embrace Limbo as Limbo embraces you, and both will grow. And after the Seventh Time of Suffering, you, Students of Zerthimon, will understand the Journey of Origins, and you will find the place where I have gone. And as it is the nature of rings, we all will return, Zerths and Zerthimon, but we will not be as we have been before.' And while speaking these words, Zerthimon's Ring realized one of the dreams, and Zerthimon disappeared, beginning the Journey of Origins.
My point? Leave Zerthimon and Gith dead. If you think "Hey, how about if it turns out they..." just drop it. The Planescape setting needs myths, mysteries, tales that tell differently depending on who you ask, and an unstatted Lady of Pain. Let's not resolve everything.
Just my two cents.
I'll probably post the whole thing when I'm down writing it.
Originally posted by Weenie
Umm... so all these guys died a heroic martyr's death during the initial war against the githyanki? ;)
I knew someone would ask that! THE ANSWER IS YES. Not like those cowards Elvis Presley and Frosty the Snowman, who hid with the neogi.
Sound familiar? ;)
In retrospect, I was way too heavy-handed with the Arthurean symbolism in that timeline. Also, someone should focus their will and clean up the squiggles.
But what I liked even better is
That is both incredibly intense and far too difficult for a non-initiate such as myself to comprehend. I leave such esoteric wisdom to the zerths.
The Planescape setting needs myths, mysteries, tales that tell differently depending on who you ask, and an unstatted Lady of Pain. Let's not resolve everything.
Just my two cents.
Ouch! Your copper missiles strike truly!
Originally posted by ripvanwormer
I knew someone would ask that! THE ANSWER IS YES. Not like those cowards Elvis Presley and Frosty the Snowman, who hid with the neogi.
Neogi? Not Tso, then?
In retrospect, I was way too heavy-handed with the Arthurean symbolism in that timeline.
I shudder to think what might have happened if you'd been heavy-handed with Tupac Shakurean symbolism instead...
Originally posted by Weenie
Neogi? Not Tso, then?
I think they probably weren't around yet.
I shudder to think what might've happen if you'd been heavy-handed with Tupac Shakurean symbolism instead...
Born in an impoverished ghetto in the world of Pharagos, Zerthimon was the most popular rapper of all the illithid slaves. No one symbolized the violence at the heart of gangsta rap and thralldom more than Zerthimon, and he ultimately fell victim to that violence, gunned down in a drive-by shooting in the still-begemmed City of Doors at age 25. The primary suspect, a rival rapper named Gith, was also gunned down a few months later.
There were so many facets to Zerthimon. He was hard...perhaps the 'realest' rapper to ever live. To say that Zerthimon was charismatic is an understatement - his sheer presence had the power to electrify a room. His lyrics were insightful, and his visual package had his female fans in a trance. He was truly a legend.
Then in 1 sqiggle, the trouble really started. He got shot up; sent to Carceri on a sexual assault charge, yet released a new album anyway. Then the infamous Seperation of the Two Skies happened - the real powder keg of the githyanki/githzerai feud. The letters back and forth - the finger pointing...(I'll leave that at that).
That whole Astral/Limbo rivalry proved once and for all that hip-hop (as Vlaakith the Lich-Queen says) is not a game.
The tragedy of Zerthimon is that his untimely passing is representative of too many young forerunners of the githzerai race. Too many of them never realize their potential.
Zerthimon was a mentor to a lot of young githzerai like myself. I have read every ring that Zerthimon has written or an auto-biography.The words out of Zerthimon's mouth were definitely felt by all of his fans and successors. He had so much to say about alot of sensitive subjects that rarely ever get recognized.
Whether he was rapping about his mama or leading armies against illithid-created abominations, you had to love him. There was something about his booming personality, his dark eyes, his gray, heavily scarred body, his distinct voice, and his smooth yet anxious flow that made you want to search for the real him.
No one in the rap or illithid-hunting games (then or now) affected us the way Zerthimon did. The mystery that still surrounds his death still haunts most of his fans. Zerthimon became larger than life in death. He released more albums in death than in life. He has easily become the githzerai Elvis. The questions still linger on. Who? What? When? Where? Most of these questions will never be answered. One githyanki who was going to come forward with information was killed, execution-style.
"When you do rap albums, you got to train yourself. You got to constantly be in character. You used to see rappers talking all that hard, and then you see them in suits and
I can't help but wonder...would Zerthimon still be alive had he stuck to this quote back in 1 squiggle? Would Gith still be alive? Would they be friends?
Zerthimon, wherever you are now, we hope you have found the peace you so desperately wanted.
R.I.P.
1 squiggle - 3 squiggle.
Thank you, that was great. Now I have another reason to start that d20 Modern Planescape campaign I've been working on...
On another note, I'd love to know where Vlaakith learned her magic from, in order to gain access to it so early in the Gith rebellion. The mind flayers, of course, banned magic, even among themselves (which is why alhoons are always outcasts).
Originally posted by (Psi)SeveredHead
There were 50 Vlaakith? Where does it say that. If so, I expect Vlaakith 51 to show up shortly.
That's from A Guide to the Astral Plane. Vlaakith the Lich Queen is the last of her line, and the only one to become a lich. There were actually many more than fifty queens named Vlaakith. All told, there were one hundred and fifty seven. The Lich Queen is Vlaakith CLVII.
Because she has no descendents, there will be no more Vlaakiths. At least, not true ones. It's suggested that a clone might be made of her or one of her ancestors, however, since tissue in the Astral Plane does not decay.
On another note, I'd love to know where Vlaakith learned her magic from, in order to gain access to it so early in the Gith rebellion. The mind flayers, of course, banned magic, even among themselves (which is why alhoons are always outcasts).
It's not clear that magic was always banned among the illithids. Dragon #313 introduces a prestige class for mind flayers that combines the disciplines of psionics and magic into one art.
However, Vlaakith I is indeed a very suspicious figure. Githyanki legend paints her as the greatest of Gith's two champions. Where Zerthimon, perhaps controlled by the hated illithids, betrayed the race, Vlaakith remained loyal and it was to her that Gith passed her crown when she departed the known planes for greater things.
But everything in the situation is deeply suspicious. Perhaps Vlaakith betrayed Gith, selling her to Tiamat in exchange for the pact with the red dragons.
Perhaps it was Tiamat who originally taught Vlaakith her magic.
Or perhaps not. Perhaps the human slaves who would become the githyanki always practiced magic in secret, hiding their greatest adepts from the prying tentacles of illithid minds. If Gith was like the gish named in her honor, she was both a warrior and a spellcaster. Perhaps Vlaakith was her teacher.
I surmised once that the betrayal went much deeper, and that Gith was given over to the illithid god Ilsensine to be implanted with a divine tadpole. And that's how the god Maanzecorian came to be. It is only with Maanzecorian's death at the voice of Tenebrous that Gith's spirit is finally free to be reborn.
Originally posted by (Psi)SeveredHead
On another note, I'd love to know where Vlaakith learned her magic from, in order to gain access to it so early in the Gith rebellion.
When it comes to early (and not so early) gith eaces, I always subconsciously translate the word "magic" into "psionics".
I don't remeber if it was specifically pointed out that Vlaakith was a spellcaster and not a psychic?
The Dragon Mag stuff is new; 3e psionics is a bit closer to magic than in previous editions, so this kind of rules-gamble is now possible.
I don't remeber if it was specifically pointed out that Vlaakith was a spellcaster and not a psychic?
I don't know about the original gith before the split, but I think all the leaders were psionic.
Speaking of which, what were the mind flayers thinking when they tried to breed psionic powers into a slave race? Did they, in fact, do this? I've seen conflicting information on this point.
Originally posted by (Psi)SeveredHead
Speaking of which, what were the mind flayers thinking when they tried to breed psionic powers into a slave race? Did they, in fact, do this? I've seen conflicting information on this point.
My guess is that the illithids intended to create an elite force of psionic shock troops, and their plan backfired. This is pure speculation on my part; I have no canon material to back me up. However, it did lead me to the interesting conjecture that, given the size and inter-planar nature of the Illithid Empire, there might have been some pockets of forerunners which were not reached by the gith rebellion. These could still be loyal to the illithids and serving their original purpose. Of course, the illithids would be much more cautious about keeping a tight leash on them now, and would carefully indoctrinate them to view the gith races as traitorous scum.
Wyvern
Originally posted by (Psi)SeveredHead
Speaking of which, what were the mind flayers thinking when they tried to breed psionic powers into a slave race? Did they, in fact, do this? I've seen conflicting information on this point.
I doubt it. They may have tried to breed in bigger brains for culinary reasons, but they probably didn't want those brains to be more powerful or intelligent.
The history of the Illithid Empire is somewhat based on the thrint of Larry Niven's novels (Charles Stross, who invented the githyanki and githzerai, has admitted to the influence). In those books, the thrint were defeated by one of their slave races, who nurtured the technology in secret to create a race that would be immune to the thrints' psionics.
Something like this might have been the case with the illithids. Perhaps there was another slave race who worked to awaken psionic talent in some likely champions among their fellow slaves. Perhaps it was the otherwise-helpless Big Brain mutants I speculate about above. Perhaps it was an interfering planar race like the rilmani.
Or maybe the githyanki forerunners nurtured the Will and the Way in themselves. It could have started with just a few mutants who conspired to awaken the Talent in the others.
Maybe it was a case of a people being so bombarded with psionic signals day in and day out that they eventually developed a natural immunity to and affinity with psionic energy.
Maybe the illithid Overmind betrayed its own creators, having wearied of the endless centuries of servitude to the elder brains and choosing to sponsor a younger, more vibrant race.
Or maybe... DONUTS!
(couldn't think of a good way to end this)
Originally posted by Wyvern76
My guess is that the illithids intended to create an elite force of psionic shock troops, and their plan backfired. This is pure speculation on my part; I have no canon material to back me up. However, it did lead me to the interesting conjecture that, given the size and inter-planar nature of the Illithid Empire, there might have been some pockets of forerunners which were not reached by the gith rebellion. These could still be loyal to the illithids and serving their original purpose. Of course, the illithids would be much more cautious about keeping a tight leash on them now, and would carefully indoctrinate them to view the gith races as traitorous scum.
Wyvern
There are some of these forerunners at Penumbra, I think. Unfortunately (and for good reson) my DM won't let me look at the mind flayer adventures.
Originally posted by (Psi)SeveredHead
There are some of these forerunners at Penumbra, I think. Unfortunately (and for good reson) my DM won't let me look at the mind flayer adventures.
Well, I have the Illithiad trilogy, though not with me, and IIRC, the forerunners on Penumbra are cast-offs of the former Illithid Empire with little or no knowledge of other worlds or planes or races. I think they have latent psionic potential, but no actual abilities. They basically represent what the gith races were before the illithids tampered with them.
Wyvern
Originally posted by ripvanwormer
Or maybe the githyanki forerunners nurtured the Will and the Way in themselves. It could have started with just a few mutants who conspired to awaken the Talent in the others.
Didn't the githzerai info in Planescape: Torment imply that this one is the right answer? I mean, of course the 'zerai attributed that role also to Zerthimon, but the process would've probably went on for a few generations. Either way, it all seemed to hint that the gith psionic talent was self-developed. IIRC (and I might not).
And since most of us treat the game as more or less canon...
I've roughly transcribed some passages from the different circles - each one begs a question of the reader in order to progress further, ensuring that the reward of knowledge is paid by comprehension, quite unlike the easy-access dogmas of certain other races.
From the first circle:
"They were the tentacled ones. They lived in flesh and saw flesh as tools for their will. Their blood was as water and they shaped minds with their thoughts. When the *illithids* came upon the People, the People were a people no more. The People became slaves."
"The *illithids* took the People from the First World and brought them to the False Worlds. As the People labored upon the False Worlds, the *illithids* taught them the Way of the Flesh. Through them, the People came to *know* loss. They came to *know* suffering. They came to *know* death, both of the body and mind. They came to *know* what it is to be the herd of another and have their flesh consumed. They came to *know* the horror of being made to feel joy in such things."
"The Unbroken Circle is the *knowing* of how the People lost themselves. And how they came to *know* themselves again."
The second circle is probably the most philosophically interesting, allowing the reader to most easily view the mindset of the Gith slaves at this point, which is, to say, they had no minds at all - they had no conception of self, and thusly were unable to recognize oppression and liberation. The binary oppostions and diasporic conditions of a subjugated tool-people come quickly to the forefront of the saga.
Interestingly, Zerthimon first comes to recognize himself as a being in a blade he finds in a corpse. Odd how most humans first do the same in a mirror, eh? Speculation for a later date. I quote from the second circle:
"*Know* that flesh cannot mark steel. *Know* that steel may mark flesh. In *knowing* this, Zerthimon became free."
"*Know* that the tentacled ones were of flesh. They relied on the flesh and used it as tools for their will. One of the places where flesh served their will was the Fields of Husks on the False Worlds of the *illithids.*"
From the third:
"By enduring and quenching the fires of his (zerthimon's) hatred, he allowed Arlathii Twice-Deceased (illithid governor of that world?) to think him weak. When the time of the Rising came, Arlathii was the first of the *illithid* to *know* death by Zerthimon's hand and die a third death."
From the fourth:
"*Know* that the Rising of the People against the *illithid* was a thing built upon many ten-turnings of labor. Many of the People were gathered and taught in secret the ways of defeating their *illithid* masters. They were taught to shield their minds, and use them as weapons. They were taught the scripture of steel, and most importantly, they were given the *knowing* of freedom."
"Some of the People learned the nature of freedom and took it into their hearts. The *knowing* gave them strength. Others feared freedom and kept silent. But there were those that *knew* freedom and *knew* slavery, and it was their choice that the People remain chained. One of these was Vilquar."
Vilquar later betrays the people, and the illithid reward him by devouring his brain - this may be a reason why loyalty is such a valuable commodity to the people of Zerthimon. Draw from it what you will. Later, Gith, a slave-warrior of the illithids, used as a tool to subjugate other worlds, is met by Zerthimon, and he recognizes that she knew herself greater than anyone he'd previously met. The then laid his steel at her feet.
The most important chapter is probably the declaration of two skies:
"Upon the Blasted Plains, Zerthimon told Gith there cannot be two skies. In the wake of his words, came war."
In the wake of their victory over the illithids, Zerthimon and Gith were divided about what should be done. The world of the Gith was ideologically, and later, biologically split that day. Gith went on to conquor more, and be the driving spirit behind the Githyanki, while Zerthimon drove the more contemplative Githzerai. Their view of the planes is fundamentally different from that of a human, or even of, say, an outsider who spends too much time in their company - the people are all that matter.
Do what you will with the above. It's much less polished than I'd like to admit making, but I can only hope that my commentary was, if not helpful, then at least not hindering in the illustration of my points.
