|#1ferratusMar 15, 2004 13:44:21||The Book on Races has been getting a lot of attention lately, with a lot of fans pining for it.|
I'm just wondering what people are waiting about in the book of races with such anticipation. Is it:
A) The chance to read the stats for all the races, and pick the coolest one to play.
B) What the race's role is the campaign setting and how they interact with each other.
I realize the answer is both, but which one do you want more? Is this in your mind more of a world building book, or a splat book?
|#2daedavias_dupMar 15, 2004 15:50:29|
Originally posted by ferratus
I would much rather have option B. I don't want to type all the specific reasons, but they are on the Wish List thread.
|#3zombiegleemaxMar 15, 2004 15:51:35||Really Im looking for both...As the world building info will be outstanding, and the splat book type stuff would be great for players to create diverse characters.....I honestly dont know what would be better....I think that if they write with both types of books in mind it would be on par with the Complete_____ line of books...which would be awesome|
|#4The_White_SorcererMar 15, 2004 16:13:33|
Originally posted by ferratus
There should be lots and lots of fluff (it's a setting specific book, after all) but there should also be rules material linked to the different races. Racial weapons, prestige classes, feats, spells, all that stuff.
|#5zombiegleemaxMar 15, 2004 19:35:30||Im looking forward to some non-human DL info. It seems that everything (PrC's and the such) that are printed for DL are for human charachters. I think it will be nice to see a Minotaur Gladiator PrC and the such.|
|#6sweetmeatsMar 15, 2004 20:32:36||I want to see both A & B in the book. Details on the races plus rules (Tinker gnomes) and some nice prestige classes (Gladiator comes to mind).|
|#7zombiegleemaxMar 15, 2004 21:13:10||I was hoping they would perhaps create separate books for most of the important playable races, but if it is to be one book, I would rather it contain both, as many have said. And be large, and full of detail and information.|
Also, I have been hoping they would include a prestige class for krynn-ish versions of several already-created prestige classes such as a Gladiator, and an Assassin. The reason for this is, though you can already find prestige classes for such, the assassin in particular from the player's handbook doesn't really fit the Dragonlance setting.
|#8zombiegleemaxMar 16, 2004 21:08:07||Well, I've always been a story person with some interest in stats, and my bro's always been a stat person with some interest in story...so I think between the two of us, A and B equally.|
...though we both REALLY want lots of stuff on Draconians. GO TEYR!
|#9raistlinroxMar 17, 2004 1:12:16||How about the kender handler as a class?|
|#10zombiegleemaxMar 17, 2004 1:32:45||Maybe kender handler as a prestige class.....the basse classes are supposed to be something that any race can take...Although rogue works just fine I think for handlers. But really....It would be good for a prestige class....|
|#11fiendish_dire_weaselMar 17, 2004 2:49:20||Both A & B are good for me, the important thing is that it is all about Draconians... I guess you could put a 3-4 page appendix about the other races though.|
|#12ferratusMar 17, 2004 5:08:20||Okay, so what prestige classes, feats, etc do you want for the races?|
As far as I can see the only racially specific class or prestige class would be the gnomish tinker. Perhaps a kender handler if you wanted to take all the interesting parts out of the rogue and make a true Tas clone.
Silvanesti Kirath are just Rangers, Dwarven Savants are just sorcerers.
The Daegar Bonemasters might be one, since they are not truly necromancers but rather craftsmen who make items out of bone and command skeletal undead. That might make a prestige class, but that's digging pretty deep into canon.
I suppose you could start making up prestige classes like the Desolation Walker, or the Griffon Rider, and such. However, that seems to me like making up rules for the sake of making up rules. Shouldn't we develop the Desolation Walkers first to see if they are interesting before developing a prestige class for them?
|#13iltharanosMar 17, 2004 8:26:41||From the KoD preview there apparently already is a Kirath prestige class.|
Dwarven Savant I wouldn't exactly consider to be a sorcerer. Most dwarven savants are Dark dwarves and dark dwarves have that massive -4 hit to their Charisma scores. Sure they could still be sorcerers, but it's unlikely. Given the stats for Dark dwarves it'd make more sense for them to be wizards, whether or not they join the Orders of High Sorcery.
As for other racial prestige classes ...
-Legionnaire: to represent the specialized warrior training of the minotaur armies of conquest.
-Gladiator: arena champions (and totally different from the one presented in Sword and Fist).
-Order of the Dolphin: the knightly order of the sea elves of Watermere (this assumes you don't allow paladins in your campaign, otherwise it could easily be represented by the paladin class).
Engineer: a more general prestige class that would be taken by mad gnomes and more technically-minded non-gnome races (like Kang's draconian engineer group). The tinker PrC by contrast would be taken by tinker gnomes and those with wackier ideas.
|#14true_blueMar 17, 2004 13:35:05||Personally I'd like to see a lot of detail given to the Ogres and Draconians. Mainly the Ogres though. Kind of tired of them being just the dumb brutes who are thrown at adventurers, or the stupid shock troops used in wars.|
I want to see thier culture and how they have survived throughout the years. Alliances and such also. In my campaign they are very active and their countries are just that... a little bit of agriculutre, trading, etc...they aren't the exact brightest, but they still are distinct. Not just idiots roaming around their territory heh.
I'd like to see the draconians fleshed out completely. Especially their country.
|#15zombiegleemaxMar 17, 2004 20:27:57||Ferratus, I'd say that's a little too harsh about a Kender Handler prestige class. I'm currently playing an NPC kender (Shadowalk), and although he has many of the traits of a handler his personality is very different from a "Tas Clone." |
He is a divine bard of Branchala with an intense interest in the natural world, who just happens to have the unconcious tendencies that fit a kender handler.
I think that blanket statements like that should be avoided, they just tend to eliminate possibilities that could otherwise prove quite interesting.
|#16ferratusMar 18, 2004 1:01:22|
Originally posted by Shadowalk Nimblefeet
Yeah, he is a bard. When people talk about a 'handler class" it is basically a rogue with no sneak attack, bonuses to taunt etc.
In fact, the handler class most people are thinking of would probably look like a "kender paragon" class in the Unearthed Arcana mold. In my opinion, that is one of the most useless prestige classes ever invented. "I'm an elf, only more of an elf". I mean, the hell, we need rules for that?
|#17zombiegleemaxMar 18, 2004 9:55:41||Sorry, double-post.|
|#18zombiegleemaxMar 18, 2004 10:01:54||I guess I'm just of the opinion of not ruling anything out or treating it too harshly before weighing all the possible options or implications. If someone wants to play a stereotype in one of my games, that's fine by me- as long as they have fun doing it. |
For example, one of my players wants to play a dwarf. Specifically a dwarf paragon. I see no problem with this. He is an exemplar of what his people value: skill at arms, in craft, etc. I won't go into his history, as it seems irrelevant, but in the end he thought this was most effectively achieved by the dwarven paragon class- and I certainly don't mind. If he'll have fun playing it, if it doesn't violate DL's flavor, then why not allow it.
To me it's not a matter of how useful something is or not, but how desirable and flavorful for roleplaying purposes something is.
If a Handler PrC is stereotypical, so what? If it gives a player the option to play something s/he thinks is fun and interesting, then that's great. The Handler definitely has a role in DL, and to over look it simply because it could be used in a stereotypical manner is not a good idea (for lack of a better phrase).
|#19DragonhelmMar 18, 2004 10:13:56|
Originally posted by Shadowalk Nimblefeet
I think, at times, we get that "been there, done that" mentality. We've seen the kender handler (for example) a dozen times over, so we want to get away from that stereotype.
Yet for some players, they wish to take on the classic role. Don't discount new players who just read Chronicles and wants to play the Tas clone.
Personally, I like approaching races with the idea of providing the stereotype, then giving new options that one may not have considered. The kender nightstalker, for example, provides a completely new role for kender, which is something more than your stereotypical handler.
|#20ferratusMar 18, 2004 14:43:01|
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
That is done well enough though with the rules for the races themselves. You do provide the stereotype with the abilities granted there.
Why do we need alternate "paragon" type rules to roleplay a "dwarf's dwarf"?
I would rather have feats and classes to show cultural highlights and sub-cultures of the various races.
Though I still wonder why prestige classes are the essential part of a roleplaying sourcebook. They just aren't very useful. Feats are much more useful, and most prestige classes special abilities can easily be made into a feat, or a feat tree.
|#21zombiegleemaxMar 19, 2004 21:49:45||Hmmm....a Kender Handler prestige class...it should have an ability that at the end of the day, the Handler rolls on some tables and find new items in his pouches that he didn't know about...usually worthless things like a bird feather, but sometimes something valuable(like a ring), magical(like a magic ring), or even an artifact(like the One Ring).|
EDIT: Oh no. Bad thought. What if someone re-wrote the Lord of the Rings where all the Hobbits where Kender!
Frodo: "Oh, I'm sorry, Sauron, your ring just fell into my pouch...you'd better keep a closer eye on it. That's why I'm here. You need someone to take care of you, and I'm that person!"
Sauron: *takes Ring away from Frodo and throws it into Mt. Doom, then happily dies*