Would you allow this in your DL campaign? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Would you allow this in your DL campaign?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
themind
Mar 17, 2004 14:25:28 I'll be starting my key of Destiny campaign in a few weeks and have been talking to my players about what kind of character they wanted to be.

Well, one of them wants to play a Sorceror, but not just any Sorceror, a Battle Sorceror from the Unearthed Arcana.

In all actuallity, I'm probably not going to allow anything from the book, but I just wanted to get your take on it.

Would you allow it?
#2
zombiegleemax
Mar 17, 2004 14:29:22 I would. The battle sorcerer is cool and makes a very affective gish character. Other gish options can be found in the Character Optimization board. Just search for the Gish thread (actually, I might have a link in my sig).
#3
cam_banks
Mar 17, 2004 14:32:39
Originally posted by Mucknuggle
I would. The battle sorcerer is cool and makes a very affective gish character. Other gish options can be found in the Character Optimization board. Just search for the Gish thread (actually, I might have a link in my sig).

Not that the gish have anything to do with Dragonlance, in general...

Given the option of using the battle sorcerer or the warmage from the Miniatures Handbook, I would prefer a player to take the warmage. They're very specialized, have a more singular focus than the battle sorcerer variant does and accomplish much the same thing in terms of their role in the game.

Cheers,
Cam
#4
themind
Mar 17, 2004 14:38:28 My main concern with considering not letting them use the UA is that if i let the one player be a Battle Sorceror, then others will want to take something from the book and things just get messed up from there.

I've already decided that I probably won't allow the BoED. One player overused the feat that I allowed him to take from that. (The Nimbus of light feat) He used it to play pranks on people. Like when he went to shake their hand, he would turn it on and then start rolling around acting like he was in pain. ANd he was a "Knight of the Crown"

(EDIT)I dont have the Mini book, no one in the group does.
#5
cam_banks
Mar 17, 2004 14:47:28
Originally posted by themind
My main concern with considering not letting them use the UA is that if i let the one player be a Battle Sorceror, then others will want to take something from the book and things just get messed up from there.

This is always a problem, yes. It's often a case of trying to close the stable door after the horse has already bolted - soon, your campaign becomes a tangled mess of variant classes and rules options. Unearthed Arcana is a really good book, but you need to carefully evaluate all of its components, choose what you want to use, and prohibit the rest. If it helps, even the designers agree you shouldn't use it extensively.

Cheers,
Cam
#6
zombiegleemax
Mar 17, 2004 14:59:48
Originally posted by Cam Banks
Not that the gish have anything to do with Dragonlance, in general...

Sure they do. Just because you haven't seen any type of gish character talked about in a novel doesn't mean that they aren't there. Don't be so close minded. It's not like gish worship a deity from Faerun or anything. It's just a different style of character. Dragonlance is a setting with a ton of magic, thus there are bound to be gish somewhere in the world.
#7
cam_banks
Mar 17, 2004 15:07:34
Originally posted by Mucknuggle
It's just a different style of character. Dragonlance is a setting with a ton of magic, thus there are bound to be gish somewhere in the world.

...sure. Whatever you say, Mucknuggle. I doubt you could have been any more obscure by bringing in that as a reference in this discussion, however.

Cheers,
Cam
#8
true_blue
Mar 17, 2004 16:34:49 I use a few things from Unearthed Arcana. In a different thread I said I use the Caster Level variant so that multi-classed wiz/fighters or whatever would still have a little bit of power. I also liked the themed barbarians and the different kinds of specialist wizards.

I'm always wary of new base classes and really dont use them at all. I pretty much think you can achieve most of the stuff one way or another with different combo's of base classes and prestige classes. I wouldnt be totally against someone being a new class, just usually i watch out. I don't even really like the mariner or noble either.

I guess i'm a bigger fan of people inventing prestige classes than base classes. I also don't worry about allowing one thing and then another member wanting me to allow a different thing. DM usually has most of the power, also I DM with a good group and most of the time we agree on stuff.
#9
The_White_Sorcerer
Mar 17, 2004 17:26:49
Originally posted by themind
I've already decided that I probably won't allow the BoED. One player overused the feat that I allowed him to take from that. (The Nimbus of light feat) He used it to play pranks on people. Like when he went to shake their hand, he would turn it on and then start rolling around acting like he was in pain. ANd he was a "Knight of the Crown"

That's why the book has the "Mature" sticker.

BTW, what on Krynn is a gish?
#10
themind
Mar 17, 2004 17:43:03 I dont know much about gish, i just know that they are combination of an Arcane spellcaster and melee type character. I think like an Eldrith Knight. That's my best guess.

Also how would I treat a Battle Sorceror character in DL. Should i treat them as a regular Sorceror, you know in regards to how the WoHS will treat Sorcerors.
#11
Nived
Mar 17, 2004 18:01:08 I trust that Towers of High Sorcery will give us some insight on these matters, as well as some PrCs specifically for the Wizards of High Sorcery. Untill then I'm treating most other Arcane classes and presteige classes as Renegades or Sorcerer PrCs...

That's just how I see it.
#12
zombiegleemax
Mar 18, 2004 5:55:31
Originally posted by themind
I dont know much about gish, i just know that they are combination of an Arcane spellcaster and melee type character. I think like an Eldrith Knight. That's my best guess.

Also how would I treat a Battle Sorceror character in DL. Should i treat them as a regular Sorceror, you know in regards to how the WoHS will treat Sorcerors.

Yes, treat them as normal sorcerers. They get their magic from the same source.

Originally posted by Cam
[B}...sure. Whatever you say, Mucknuggle. I doubt you could have been any more obscure by bringing in that as a reference in this discussion, however.

Cheers,
Cam[/b]

If you, like many others on this board, feel like continuing to be closed minded and disallow a bunch of cool stuff that could easily be in the world of Krymm go ahead. I certainly won't put any effort into trying to convince you to change your minds. However for me, the world of Krynn is a magical world where I will allow mostly anything as long as it has been said explicitly somewhere that it does not exist. Why shouldn't I? The more options you have the better. And something like the Battle Sorcerer variant or any of the generic prestige classes (even the campaign specific ones) could easily fit into DL. It all depends on if you are willing to allow things that have not been said to exist or not exist. I don't mind spending a few minutes to change the flavor text of something I find cool so that it has the DL feel. Wtv, I'm ranting, I'm going to stop now.

If you wish to know what a gish is, head over to the Character Optimization forum and search for JosephKell's Arcane Gish thread. I believe that I also have a link in my sig.
#13
cam_banks
Mar 18, 2004 6:22:10
Originally posted by Mucknuggle
If you, like many others on this board, feel like continuing to be closed minded and disallow a bunch of cool stuff that could easily be in the world of Krymm go ahead.

I have no problem with battle sorcerers and other variant classes in Dragonlance. My campaigns are full of interesting new character concepts, creatures, rules tweaks, and additions to the canon, from the use of drama points to place more directorial control in the hands of my players to the use of the akashic class from Arcana Unearthed as aesthetics who tap into the collective knowledge of Gilean.

I just think that "gish" is a really stupid name, and referring to some guy's pet conceptual term for a branch of the Githyanki race is completely unhelpful when somebody's asking for validation on using a variant character class in his Dragonlance games. Don't you think?

Cheers,
Cam
#14
zombiegleemax
Mar 18, 2004 7:47:59 Hmmm, someone put up a fan variant subrace and gave it a goofy name? I should put that in my DL game right away, because all things Gith just go so well in Krynn!

BZZZ! Im sorry but the correct answer was...

Let's only place things that fit the theme and flavor of the campaign into the game.

Thanks for playing....We have some lovely parting gifts for you....

Seriously...all joking aside, I looked at the thread and see no reason to add them to the game simply because they are cool. I pretty much just dont see a role for them to fill, or a place for them really.
#15
zombiegleemax
Mar 20, 2004 18:09:22 Have him start out with a Sorceror and pick up the War Mage PrC from AoM, that way it's still the dragonlance flavor with the desired character goal. It is not that hard to find a fit with what DL already has to offer.

Besides, not having to have those pesky material components really helps when you need to go under cover, or cast on the fly.

Rast was always known for his rose petal smell.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 themind Mar 17, 2004 14:25:28	I'll be starting my key of Destiny campaign in a few weeks and have been talking to my players about what kind of character they wanted to be. Well, one of them wants to play a Sorceror, but not just any Sorceror, a Battle Sorceror from the Unearthed Arcana. In all actuallity, I'm probably not going to allow anything from the book, but I just wanted to get your take on it. Would you allow it?
#2 zombiegleemax Mar 17, 2004 14:29:22	I would. The battle sorcerer is cool and makes a very affective gish character. Other gish options can be found in the Character Optimization board. Just search for the Gish thread (actually, I might have a link in my sig).
#3 cam_banks Mar 17, 2004 14:32:39	Originally posted by Mucknuggle I would. The battle sorcerer is cool and makes a very affective gish character. Other gish options can be found in the Character Optimization board. Just search for the Gish thread (actually, I might have a link in my sig). Not that the gish have anything to do with Dragonlance, in general... Given the option of using the battle sorcerer or the warmage from the Miniatures Handbook, I would prefer a player to take the warmage. They're very specialized, have a more singular focus than the battle sorcerer variant does and accomplish much the same thing in terms of their role in the game. Cheers, Cam
#4 themind Mar 17, 2004 14:38:28	My main concern with considering not letting them use the UA is that if i let the one player be a Battle Sorceror, then others will want to take something from the book and things just get messed up from there. I've already decided that I probably won't allow the BoED. One player overused the feat that I allowed him to take from that. (The Nimbus of light feat) He used it to play pranks on people. Like when he went to shake their hand, he would turn it on and then start rolling around acting like he was in pain. ANd he was a "Knight of the Crown" (EDIT)I dont have the Mini book, no one in the group does.
#5 cam_banks Mar 17, 2004 14:47:28	Originally posted by themind My main concern with considering not letting them use the UA is that if i let the one player be a Battle Sorceror, then others will want to take something from the book and things just get messed up from there. This is always a problem, yes. It's often a case of trying to close the stable door after the horse has already bolted - soon, your campaign becomes a tangled mess of variant classes and rules options. Unearthed Arcana is a really good book, but you need to carefully evaluate all of its components, choose what you want to use, and prohibit the rest. If it helps, even the designers agree you shouldn't use it extensively. Cheers, Cam
#6 zombiegleemax Mar 17, 2004 14:59:48	Originally posted by Cam Banks Not that the gish have anything to do with Dragonlance, in general... Sure they do. Just because you haven't seen any type of gish character talked about in a novel doesn't mean that they aren't there. Don't be so close minded. It's not like gish worship a deity from Faerun or anything. It's just a different style of character. Dragonlance is a setting with a ton of magic, thus there are bound to be gish somewhere in the world.
#7 cam_banks Mar 17, 2004 15:07:34	Originally posted by Mucknuggle It's just a different style of character. Dragonlance is a setting with a ton of magic, thus there are bound to be gish somewhere in the world. ...sure. Whatever you say, Mucknuggle. I doubt you could have been any more obscure by bringing in that as a reference in this discussion, however. Cheers, Cam
#8 true_blue Mar 17, 2004 16:34:49	I use a few things from Unearthed Arcana. In a different thread I said I use the Caster Level variant so that multi-classed wiz/fighters or whatever would still have a little bit of power. I also liked the themed barbarians and the different kinds of specialist wizards. I'm always wary of new base classes and really dont use them at all. I pretty much think you can achieve most of the stuff one way or another with different combo's of base classes and prestige classes. I wouldnt be totally against someone being a new class, just usually i watch out. I don't even really like the mariner or noble either. I guess i'm a bigger fan of people inventing prestige classes than base classes. I also don't worry about allowing one thing and then another member wanting me to allow a different thing. DM usually has most of the power, also I DM with a good group and most of the time we agree on stuff.
#9 The_White_Sorcerer Mar 17, 2004 17:26:49	Originally posted by themind I've already decided that I probably won't allow the BoED. One player overused the feat that I allowed him to take from that. (The Nimbus of light feat) He used it to play pranks on people. Like when he went to shake their hand, he would turn it on and then start rolling around acting like he was in pain. ANd he was a "Knight of the Crown" That's why the book has the "Mature" sticker. BTW, what on Krynn is a gish?
#10 themind Mar 17, 2004 17:43:03	I dont know much about gish, i just know that they are combination of an Arcane spellcaster and melee type character. I think like an Eldrith Knight. That's my best guess. Also how would I treat a Battle Sorceror character in DL. Should i treat them as a regular Sorceror, you know in regards to how the WoHS will treat Sorcerors.
#11 Nived Mar 17, 2004 18:01:08	I trust that Towers of High Sorcery will give us some insight on these matters, as well as some PrCs specifically for the Wizards of High Sorcery. Untill then I'm treating most other Arcane classes and presteige classes as Renegades or Sorcerer PrCs... That's just how I see it.
#12 zombiegleemax Mar 18, 2004 5:55:31	Originally posted by themind I dont know much about gish, i just know that they are combination of an Arcane spellcaster and melee type character. I think like an Eldrith Knight. That's my best guess. Also how would I treat a Battle Sorceror character in DL. Should i treat them as a regular Sorceror, you know in regards to how the WoHS will treat Sorcerors. Yes, treat them as normal sorcerers. They get their magic from the same source. Originally posted by Cam [B}...sure. Whatever you say, Mucknuggle. I doubt you could have been any more obscure by bringing in that as a reference in this discussion, however. Cheers, Cam[/b] If you, like many others on this board, feel like continuing to be closed minded and disallow a bunch of cool stuff that could easily be in the world of Krymm go ahead. I certainly won't put any effort into trying to convince you to change your minds. However for me, the world of Krynn is a magical world where I will allow mostly anything as long as it has been said explicitly somewhere that it does not exist. Why shouldn't I? The more options you have the better. And something like the Battle Sorcerer variant or any of the generic prestige classes (even the campaign specific ones) could easily fit into DL. It all depends on if you are willing to allow things that have not been said to exist or not exist. I don't mind spending a few minutes to change the flavor text of something I find cool so that it has the DL feel. Wtv, I'm ranting, I'm going to stop now. If you wish to know what a gish is, head over to the Character Optimization forum and search for JosephKell's Arcane Gish thread. I believe that I also have a link in my sig.
#13 cam_banks Mar 18, 2004 6:22:10	Originally posted by Mucknuggle If you, like many others on this board, feel like continuing to be closed minded and disallow a bunch of cool stuff that could easily be in the world of Krymm go ahead. I have no problem with battle sorcerers and other variant classes in Dragonlance. My campaigns are full of interesting new character concepts, creatures, rules tweaks, and additions to the canon, from the use of drama points to place more directorial control in the hands of my players to the use of the akashic class from Arcana Unearthed as aesthetics who tap into the collective knowledge of Gilean. I just think that "gish" is a really stupid name, and referring to some guy's pet conceptual term for a branch of the Githyanki race is completely unhelpful when somebody's asking for validation on using a variant character class in his Dragonlance games. Don't you think? Cheers, Cam
#14 zombiegleemax Mar 18, 2004 7:47:59	Hmmm, someone put up a fan variant subrace and gave it a goofy name? I should put that in my DL game right away, because all things Gith just go so well in Krynn! BZZZ! Im sorry but the correct answer was... Let's only place things that fit the theme and flavor of the campaign into the game. Thanks for playing....We have some lovely parting gifts for you.... Seriously...all joking aside, I looked at the thread and see no reason to add them to the game simply because they are cool. I pretty much just dont see a role for them to fill, or a place for them really.
#15 zombiegleemax Mar 20, 2004 18:09:22	Have him start out with a Sorceror and pick up the War Mage PrC from AoM, that way it's still the dragonlance flavor with the desired character goal. It is not that hard to find a fit with what DL already has to offer. Besides, not having to have those pesky material components really helps when you need to go under cover, or cast on the fly. Rast was always known for his rose petal smell.