I have never really liked the place. Maybe because of the way the artwork and the general feel of the gaz gives me this impression of disneyesque native americans.
I have considered various scenarios in which the entire country is wiped out, taken over by elves, included within Darokin etc. But now im thinking maybe I should give the country a chance.
I dont really mind having a primitive hunter/gatherer type of society in the region. It is more that they so closely resemble real world (or movie version) native americans with feathers and all that I find annoying. I'd much prefer it if they were more similar to the plains barbarians of Krynn for instance. Sure, they are from the same source of inspiration, but they have a more unique feel to them. I would have liked to see something like this done to the Athruagini aswell.
What are other peoples opinions?
Havard
I always liked the Clans and had them involved in trying to stop Hule in it's invasion of Darokin. I think I like the Clans because I'm part Cherokee, and they always seem to be unique. I allowed my players to gain some of the thief skills when they chose an Atruaghin player. That gave them more of the geurilla tactics that they were known for.
Hmm.. there might be a sollution here. Perhaps what I felt was missing from the Athruagini was the lack of coolness about them. At least to me they seem to be way to tranquil and peaceful to be interesting. If I make them more agressive and portray their excellent fighting abilities, this will make them more interesting than the "Noble Savage" stereotype that the Gaz seems to suggest.
Also, since you are part Cherokee, didnt you feel that the penalties to int and wis were racist? I never used that IMC as I consider ability scores independent of culture and technological advancement. I.e. someone who hasnt been at university may still show amazing common sense(wisdom) and posess vast amounts of knowledge (int)...
Havard
P.S.- I have a G.E.D. and most of my friends are college grads, and they still come to me for help with philosophy, religion, mythology, psychology and so on. I studied on my own to improve my writing techniques.
Take a Nobel Prize now 90 years old, still very aware and active. The fact that he does not know how to hack a PC game don't make him stupid. A 12 yeards old kid that know how to do it is not more intelligent than the Nobel Prize.
Intelligence not only reflect knowledge, but also ability to adapt ourselve, the capacity to solve problems, the aptitude to learning, etc.
Penalties to these stats should be used only for creatures that don't evolve much as beings (ex: orcs!)
b. I also found the cover art of GAZ14 quite disappointing. To an ignorant's eye (such as myself) it just seemed like a "general" picture of Native Americans. Not very inspiring, and with very little flair of fantasy or adventure.
c. Regarding using Atruaghin: Well, I always thought it could be well used for interesting NPCs. I used it only once: a female Shamani whose character was loosely based on the Homeric Cassandra - i.e. a prophetess that nobody beleives. So she adventured out towards Darokin, where the PCs met her etc. etc.
I always wanted to do a campaign that would discuss the Azcan connections of some cultures (Atruaghin, Shadow Elves, Oenkmar). Never really figured out how.
One of the PCs, a Vestland fighter named Rainulph, is on a quest to find what has happened to his father, once a clan head, who hasn't returned after 15 years of his own Odin-inspired quest to find a "great weapon of power" to use against the humanoids attacking the region. Well, Rainulph was killed.
I use an article on "limbo" that Bruce Heard wrote for the after-life. It was in limbo that Rainulph discovered that his father was here before too; killed by the "savages of the plateau" but found a path back to the lands of the living. Rainulph also found this path and "came to" about an hour and a half later. He was now determined to travel to the plateau.
The PCs where in Atruaghin for maybe two months of game time and the main opposition was the Children of the Tiger; the "savages" that killed Rainulph's father. Other encounters included gnolls, giant ants, meeting Hovar Duckwatcher and a subtlely guided trip to ancient Azcan city ruins.
It was fun and different but I think an extended campaign here would be difficult, but not impossible.
As far as game mechanics go, it isn't right to raise some abilities without balancing it somehow so I think I'll follow your leads and not use them at all (for humans
)Ultimately, the real question has yet to be examined.
"Also, since you are part Cherokee, didnt you feel that the penalties to int and wis were racist?"
Personally, I doubt that true racism was the reason that this optional rule was introduced. Obviously, a writer drawn to a project like GAZ14 would have some measure of respect and admiration for the Native American people. I suspect that the intent was to make these characters more physically endowed because they lived a good, healthy life out of doors. Sadly, the way this was carried out was pretty poor and unintentionally offensive.
I have been mulling over the idea of introducing an NPC from Athruagin into my campaign. The trick seems to be to create a character that is recognizeable as a Native American without crafting an unintentional parody.
Regards and Best Wishes,
Donald Eric Kesler
Personally, I doubt that true racism was the reason that this optional rule was introduced. Obviously, a writer drawn to a project like GAZ14 would have some measure of respect and admiration for the Native American people. I suspect that the intent was to make these characters more physically endowed because they lived a good, healthy life out of doors. Sadly, the way this was carried out was pretty poor and unintentionally offensive.
I agree that the intentions were probably good, yet the message conveyed can easily be perceived as racist. Personally, Im not much a fan of "racial variant" writeups for humans, especially not if the involve ability score modifiers. OTOH, I might not mind including some rule which penalized Athruagini for wearing heavy armor, and gave some natural AC bonus due to them being accustomed to wearing lighter armor. This would be more of a cultural thing than just being tied into the whole people being physically oriented. Besides, why would Athruagini be more physically oriented than say Northmen?
Just a thought,
Havard
On the other hand, one could easily justify an Atruaghin PC who has no cultural restrictions by simply saying he or she was influenced by contact with outsiders while growing up, or left the plateau at an early age. It could make an interesting roleplaying situation as the character might now be viewed as an outsider in her native lands.
Regional Feats is not a bad idea, although it takes quite a bit of work. Ideally, each clan would have its own feat.
Another thing to consider is the totemic barbarian class from UA, though it would require us to create one class variant for each clan, again alot of work...
Havard
I've got no particular problem with the idea of having a native American type culture in Mystara, quite the opposite, I just never liked the way it was done and I didn't think the placement (so close to the the rest of the Known World and sandwiched between it and the Sind) really worked all that well for me. There's no clear geographic barrier between, for example, the Mayan/Aztec like peoples of the lowland forests (the Snake Clan I think they were called?) and Darokin; sorry but this makes no sense to me. If there were at least a mountain range I could deal with it.
I guess the tribes on the plateau were OK geographically, but, I still just didn't altogether like or agree with the presentation. They seemed to be primarily based off Plains Indians, such a culture needs alot more room than what the Plateau had to offer. There are much better spots in Mystara for that.
Too I found that it (or at least the Plateau) was just too focussed on Plains Indians cultures, I would have liked to see more Eastern and Pacific cultures represented, particularly Haida and Iroqouis.
Originally posted by Lost Woodrake
I always wanted to do a campaign that would discuss the Azcan connections of some cultures (Atruaghin, Shadow Elves, Oenkmar). Never really figured out how.
Quoting myself is rather pathetic, but I suddenly thought of the following idea - and I would like to hear what you all think:
An ancient Azcan artifact of Atzanteotl has somehow found itself on the Plateau. Atzanteotl is sending some of his humanoid followers to retrieve it, and is also affecting the Shadow Elves to send their own adventurers. Is seems like a whole mess having Shadow Elves and humanoids chasing each other on the Plateau -but the cultural confrontation might be interesting.