|#1zombiegleemaxApr 22, 2004 13:28:51||Hi everyone I am planning to run a Dark Sun game for the summer and I am a little new to the world which i love.I have a question about Defiling.If any wizard wants to defile he or she needs to spend an extra round in casting the spell to only get +1 to caster lvl?Also in the PDF conversion rules it states that defilers always defile so they always spend an extra round in all spells they cast?I am aware of the defiling feats but i simply do not find the +1 caster lvl for 1 extra round of casting time sufficent enough temptation for players?Shouldn't it be a greater effect with little consequence other than the plant life destruction to defile.I simply find it not enough of a temptation for any wizard PC to defile.Anyone else had thoughts on this?|
|#2Shei-NadApr 22, 2004 13:41:12||Heheh... lots of people have lots of thoughts on this, and lots of people are tired of hearing the other people give thoughts on this! :p|
Without getting into much detail, I'd suggest taking a look at the magazine Dragon 315, which offers another official defiling system. In my opinion, it better captures the ''power hungry/reward'' of defiling, but that system is really broken, balance-wise. If you want to try it, I suggest using it with these changes:
1- To use metamagics when defiling, you need to know the metamagic feat.
2- Assumed defiler points (defiler scores) grant the same disadvantages as defiler points. However, you can reduce your defiler scores in the same way as defiler points, but this requires twice as much time to do so. (this way, assumed defiler points (defiler scores) grant half as much penalties as defiler points, but take twice as long to get rid of. Also, you can no longer accumulate defiler scores in the hundreds without penalties (at 31, you were supposed to get overwhelming defiler auras... typical defiler would get that score in a day's work!)
3- Once you assume a defiler point, you permanently become a defiler. You cannot get rid of your last defiler point, and you always suffer from the penalties associated with it (-2 to cha and wis skill checks). Also, your spells always defile the terrain for half the radius of 1 defiler point. You do not gain defiler points when casting spells without boosting it with defiling energies, however. The only way to loose this defiler status is with a (atonement?) spell from a druid.
4- Preservers who defile can do so, but cannot assume the defiler points if they wish to remain preservers (which means they get more penalties more quickly when they defile).
5- The T'liz template is gained when a defiler dies with a defiler score of 41+ (not 41+ defiler points, and not while living), with some chance the process does not (succeed?) and the defiler simply dies. (10%?).
6- Assuming the taint is a standard action that draws an AoO, which requires a Concentration check DC 15. When you assume the defiler taint, you add half of your defiler points to your defiler score, and erase all defiler points, reducing the penalties associated with the taint accordingly. Note that assuming the taint makes you a permanent defiler, as described above.
Now all you need is the Dragon issue. ;)
Oh, by the way, AVOID Dragon 319 AT ALL COSTS!!!:D
|#3flipApr 24, 2004 17:20:36|
Originally posted by SirKalamon
1) If you're serious about being a defiler, there's a feat that you can take (Fast Raze) which reduces the amount of time that you need to spend gathering.
2) +1 manifester level is actually a signifigant effect, for a large number of spells. Your manifester level affect every variable a spell has, from duration to range to damage dice. Is that obvious at first glance? No, and I'll grant that we need to emphasise this a bit further. However, it is a non-trivial boost.
|#4jon_oracle_of_athasApr 26, 2004 10:42:53|
Also in the PDF conversion rules it states that defilers always defile so they always spend an extra round in all spells they cast?
No, while they always create a circle of ash that causes penalties to anyone caught too close (friend or foe), they do not need to increase the casting time to get the +1 caster level bonus. That is optional.
|#5jon_oracle_of_athasApr 26, 2004 10:43:59||Take a look at the Arch Defiler prestige class. Worth becoming a defiler in my opinion. |
|#6zombiegleemaxApr 28, 2004 13:04:17|
Originally posted by Shei-Nad
I wouldn't go that far. Just avoid most of that issue. ;)
|#7Shei-NadApr 29, 2004 8:14:28|
Originally posted by Ground_State Johnny
Yeah your right. There's some nice artwork in there. Dungeon too, though Hamanu seems to have changed his mind over the years:
''Heh! The other way around is much more fun! Hah! I have four legs, and you don't! And look: I have Sauron's mace! Haha! Now you don't see that every day! And BEHOLD: I have captured ONE Thri-Kreen! HAR HAR HAR!!!''
|#8zombiegleemaxApr 29, 2004 8:49:51|
Originally posted by Shei-Nad
|#9superpriestApr 29, 2004 9:42:13||Wait---that centaur-thing is supposed to be Hamanu? Holy good crap! That's just...awful..|
|#10dawnstealerApr 29, 2004 9:48:55||Any thoughts of just making a new class devoted to Defilers, rather than trying to go the route of Feats? I'm not too fond of Feats and I know my players aren't (some just open the book at random, see if they have the prereqs, and select a feat; others min/max their feats - the system's obtuse). I know it's a pain in the arse, but seriously, defilers have an advantage - they won, remember?|
|#11flipApr 29, 2004 11:27:49|
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
See Jon's post above.
|#12xlorepdarkhelm_dupApr 29, 2004 11:33:10||I think that the PrC's are still on their way, officially. and I'd not be surprised if there was several PrC's for Defilers. personally, I'm like you Dawnstealer, when it comes to feats. I think that they should help define the character, not the class. Class improvements, above and beyond the original, should be a PrC. Feats are something that helps make one character be more distinguished and unique - not a crutch to implement class modifications above and beyond the original (for the most part - some classes, like the fighter, are very much feat-oriented, which makes the class very flexable in how each character end up being, and makes two fighters potentially quite different from each other).|
|#13zombiegleemaxApr 29, 2004 13:00:02||I think the intent with having it based on feats is to provide moral dilemas, like what Sadira faced in several occasions throughout the books.|
|#14zombiegleemaxApr 29, 2004 13:28:26|
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
This is really a problem with the fighter class and not feats, but fighters all look the same. Because of the many pre-reqs needed for the "end game" feats fighters take the same ones. Which really make fighters one of the weakest classes. IMO
Ok, off the soap-box now.