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Nyrond and The Pale

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Greyson
Apr 26, 2004 15:36:54 Describe your conception of the situation on and around the Nyrond/Pale border, especially on the Nyrond side. Whether or not you have campaign activity there, share your perception of the situation.

For example, what is the level of (if any) tension as Pholtans assert themsleves in and around Midmeadow. Are the Pholtans too entrenched in Woodverge Province? Or, is there hope they can be expelled - peacefully? Or is armed conflict the only means of resolution? Does Lynwerd concede the north to The Pale? If you are Nyrondese, are the Pholtans even a problem?

Relevant links:
Nyrond Map
Woodverge Province
#2
zombiegleemax
Apr 26, 2004 16:34:23 Well, I'm not too up on Pale/Nyrondal tensions but I'd say that the Pale tends to raise tension everywhere it goes since you know...all that fire & brimstone stuff. Not to mention Nyrond isn't the most powerful of nations right now, the people might be afraid that the Pale will swoop down and crush them, there's probably not much Lynwerd can do if that's the case as well.

Also, on the Pale side, the Nyrondese are heathens who probably have to be "liberated" for Pholtus so marching in is the "right" thing to do. If Lynwerd's smart he'll let them have the northern parts they've moved into, or else he'll lose the entire kingdom since his resources are most likely stretched as it is.

*Note that all this is just on the LGG, I don't know if Living Greyhawk has improved Nyronds conditions or anything.
#3
max_writer
Apr 27, 2004 8:34:10 I don't think Living Greyhawk has changed Nyrond. As far as I can tell, there are no big, Oerth-shaking events in Living Greyhawk.
#4
zombiegleemax
Apr 27, 2004 9:13:36 It was my impression (having not played in the region) that the Pale Triad was trying to make the Pale kinder and gentler. Personally the only thing interesting about them in the first place is their LN fascism, so I am not sure why they went in that direction, so my guess is in the LG camp they might work things out diplomatically.

As far as being entrenched in Nyrond I would think this would be a short lived thing in any case, they are already in the southern part of Tenh fighting the Fists and the Tenha expatriates/Urnst mercenaries not to mention recurrent troll invasions. I would think they are stretched a little too thin as it is.
#5
simpi
Apr 27, 2004 11:13:47
Originally posted by Lassiviren
It was my impression (having not played in the region) that the Pale Triad was trying to make the Pale kinder and gentler. Personally the only thing interesting about them in the first place is their LN fascism, so I am not sure why they went in that direction, so my guess is in the LG camp they might work things out diplomatically.

I think the ruler mentioned in LGG was killed off in Living Greyhawk. I don't like them downgrading the fanatism either but I don't think their general attitude has changed that much yet.

I've only played one module in Pale and only intolerant (towards wizards) NPC I met was a village constable who did not believe there is a mysterious monster in the woods, despite the fact that an enraged half-orc was chasing aforementioned (now burning) monster through a village :D

Circle did consider long and hard whether or not to assign a real world region for Pale. If there is a change in fanatism, I fear it's because of a pressure from players who 'are not having fun' in this kind of region which definetly means certain code of behaviour for PCs.

I hope it won't happen.

On a side note: I've heard lot's of good things about their regionals.

btw, are from Finland by any change? Just looking the name....
#6
Greyson
Apr 27, 2004 13:33:57 I wondered if the Circle considered the Pale's unique religious "outlook" when creating the region. I think the Pale will work better as a non-region so that writers and DMs can develop the Pale as intolerant, overly-zealous and religiously bigotted as it is purported to be in early Greyhawk work.

But, I don't like Pholtus or the Pale. I want to see The Valorous League of Blindness and all other Pholtans uprooted from Nyrond and expelled.
#7
zombiegleemax
Apr 27, 2004 13:55:27
Originally posted by Greyson
For example, what is the level of (if any) tension as Pholtans assert themsleves in and around Midmeadow. Are the Pholtans too entrenched in Woodverge Province? Or, is there hope they can be expelled - peacefully? Or is armed conflict the only means of resolution? Does Lynwerd concede the north to The Pale? If you are Nyrondese, are the Pholtans even a problem?

Tensions are high, but can be resolved without bloodshed. Nyrond will have to agree not to interfere with the Pholtans "conversion" efforts, but it will retain political control of the area.

The Pale has plenty of room for expansion right now in Tenh, and plenty of use for its troops their as well. It also has to defend itself from humanoid and Troll deprevations. These defensive needs are always there. It can not afford to confront Nyrond until it has resolved its situation in Tenh. It can afford threats, negotiations, intimidation and all other forms of pressure to extend influence in Nyrond, but not open conflict.

Lynwerd will not concede anything. He has made gains in (former) Almor and can not afford to look weak to anyone. He has to hang on to his current borders and rebuild his strength. He will be happy to engage in high level, delicate negotiations, but will not give up any territory.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Greyson Apr 26, 2004 15:36:54	Describe your conception of the situation on and around the Nyrond/Pale border, especially on the Nyrond side. Whether or not you have campaign activity there, share your perception of the situation. For example, what is the level of (if any) tension as Pholtans assert themsleves in and around Midmeadow. Are the Pholtans too entrenched in Woodverge Province? Or, is there hope they can be expelled - peacefully? Or is armed conflict the only means of resolution? Does Lynwerd concede the north to The Pale? If you are Nyrondese, are the Pholtans even a problem? Relevant links: Nyrond Map Woodverge Province
#2 zombiegleemax Apr 26, 2004 16:34:23	Well, I'm not too up on Pale/Nyrondal tensions but I'd say that the Pale tends to raise tension everywhere it goes since you know...all that fire & brimstone stuff. Not to mention Nyrond isn't the most powerful of nations right now, the people might be afraid that the Pale will swoop down and crush them, there's probably not much Lynwerd can do if that's the case as well. Also, on the Pale side, the Nyrondese are heathens who probably have to be "liberated" for Pholtus so marching in is the "right" thing to do. If Lynwerd's smart he'll let them have the northern parts they've moved into, or else he'll lose the entire kingdom since his resources are most likely stretched as it is. *Note that all this is just on the LGG, I don't know if Living Greyhawk has improved Nyronds conditions or anything.
#3 max_writer Apr 27, 2004 8:34:10	I don't think Living Greyhawk has changed Nyrond. As far as I can tell, there are no big, Oerth-shaking events in Living Greyhawk.
#4 zombiegleemax Apr 27, 2004 9:13:36	It was my impression (having not played in the region) that the Pale Triad was trying to make the Pale kinder and gentler. Personally the only thing interesting about them in the first place is their LN fascism, so I am not sure why they went in that direction, so my guess is in the LG camp they might work things out diplomatically. As far as being entrenched in Nyrond I would think this would be a short lived thing in any case, they are already in the southern part of Tenh fighting the Fists and the Tenha expatriates/Urnst mercenaries not to mention recurrent troll invasions. I would think they are stretched a little too thin as it is.
#5 simpi Apr 27, 2004 11:13:47	Originally posted by Lassiviren It was my impression (having not played in the region) that the Pale Triad was trying to make the Pale kinder and gentler. Personally the only thing interesting about them in the first place is their LN fascism, so I am not sure why they went in that direction, so my guess is in the LG camp they might work things out diplomatically. I think the ruler mentioned in LGG was killed off in Living Greyhawk. I don't like them downgrading the fanatism either but I don't think their general attitude has changed that much yet. I've only played one module in Pale and only intolerant (towards wizards) NPC I met was a village constable who did not believe there is a mysterious monster in the woods, despite the fact that an enraged half-orc was chasing aforementioned (now burning) monster through a village :D Circle did consider long and hard whether or not to assign a real world region for Pale. If there is a change in fanatism, I fear it's because of a pressure from players who 'are not having fun' in this kind of region which definetly means certain code of behaviour for PCs. I hope it won't happen. On a side note: I've heard lot's of good things about their regionals. btw, are from Finland by any change? Just looking the name....
#6 Greyson Apr 27, 2004 13:33:57	I wondered if the Circle considered the Pale's unique religious "outlook" when creating the region. I think the Pale will work better as a non-region so that writers and DMs can develop the Pale as intolerant, overly-zealous and religiously bigotted as it is purported to be in early Greyhawk work. But, I don't like Pholtus or the Pale. I want to see The Valorous League of Blindness and all other Pholtans uprooted from Nyrond and expelled.
#7 zombiegleemax Apr 27, 2004 13:55:27	Originally posted by Greyson For example, what is the level of (if any) tension as Pholtans assert themsleves in and around Midmeadow. Are the Pholtans too entrenched in Woodverge Province? Or, is there hope they can be expelled - peacefully? Or is armed conflict the only means of resolution? Does Lynwerd concede the north to The Pale? If you are Nyrondese, are the Pholtans even a problem? Tensions are high, but can be resolved without bloodshed. Nyrond will have to agree not to interfere with the Pholtans "conversion" efforts, but it will retain political control of the area. The Pale has plenty of room for expansion right now in Tenh, and plenty of use for its troops their as well. It also has to defend itself from humanoid and Troll deprevations. These defensive needs are always there. It can not afford to confront Nyrond until it has resolved its situation in Tenh. It can afford threats, negotiations, intimidation and all other forms of pressure to extend influence in Nyrond, but not open conflict. Lynwerd will not concede anything. He has made gains in (former) Almor and can not afford to look weak to anyone. He has to hang on to his current borders and rebuild his strength. He will be happy to engage in high level, delicate negotiations, but will not give up any territory.