Noble Draconians, and you. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Noble Draconians, and you.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Nived
May 05, 2004 11:58:25 One of the newest additions to Dragonlance, officially anyway I know Jamie conceptualized them back in the early ninties, is the Noble Draconians. Their history is set, but vauge, as is their possibilities for a future, they are right now very much clay in the hands of a DM. So I've been wondering, how do some of you plan on molding the Noble Dracs into DL history.

One of the things that strike me off the bat are the abilities of the Vapors and the Lightnings. First let me talk about some general things that struck me.

I was re-reading the Doom Brigade when the Beastiary came out, and a certain passage struck me. When Kang first encounters the Dark Knights it said the Red Dragon mount looked at him with disgust, but also fear, fear because what could happen to one clutch of eggs could just as easily happen to another. How true. Now obviously Noble Draconians didn't officially exist then, however one can make this work into their history. Perhaps creation of the Noble Dracs was a well kept secret, not even Takhisis' dragons knew of it. So where did the eggs come from? Most logically clutches of eggs belonging to chromatic dragons who died in the service of the Dark Queen.

Next we have the Lightnings who are, as far as I know, the only race in D&D not from the higher planes who are inherently Paladins, whom simpley are connected to the gods of good. While an excellent concept is does cause some eyebrows to be raised. Yet does give an excellent answer to a basic question about Noble Draconians in general, how did they escape? They were bred, considered failures, and marked for destruction in the middle of one of the Dragonarmies most secure strongholds, how could they have escaped? The Lightning Draconian give a pretty fair answer, the Gods of light gave the lightnings the power to save their people, what few their were to begin with and lead them out of bondage.

On the purely mechanical side of things, many of the Lightning Drac's abilities stack with paladin levels, and are listed as functioning (the same as a paladin of the same level... but the Lightning doesn't have a special mount though a human paladin of th same HD would. At what level would a Lightning Drac get a special mount if he took paladin levels?

The Vapor gave me pause since it casts spells as a mystic. When they were created mysticm 'didn't exist'. Is this a continuity error, or a clue to a puzzle. In the War of Souls Takhisis took credit for bringing mysticm to the world, assuming the queen of lies was telling the truth, could it be that these 'mistakes' with their inborn mysticm was where Takhisis learned it, to later teach it?

The problem with that theory of mine is of course the Kyrie, and older and established race have inborn mysticm.

Anyways, thoughts on how to fit Noble Drac's into your game, where are they at? Where are they going? Do they have females? How would Kang and the Draconians in Teyr respond to them?
#2
zombiegleemax
May 05, 2004 14:50:58 When I created the noble draconians, in my own version of events, I had a history that detailed just how the young noble draconians were liberated from captivity and saved from slaughter. Over ten years ago, I posted a detailed version of it on alt.fan.dragonlance.

Though my story could now never be due to the events of the Chaos War and Fifth Age, at the time it was my personal answer to one of the early mysteries of Dragonlance--the fate of Gilthanas and Silvara. It was the elven noble and silver dragon who rescued the noble draconians and then secreted them away and raised them in isolation from a world that would never understand them.

This is not official, of course, but was a fan-created storyline of mine back in "the day." I've intentionally left the details of the noble draconian's past and future vague so there is room for development.

Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.
#3
sweetmeats
May 05, 2004 18:50:09
Originally posted by Nived
Anyways, thoughts on how to fit Noble Drac's into your game, where are they at? Where are they going? Do they have females? How would Kang and the Draconians in Teyr respond to them?

I don't have the BoK yet. Hopefully by the end of the week. *Fingers Crossed*

But from the preview here is how I look at it.
I don't think they exist in enough numbers to actually "be at" anywhere. They are perhaps in small bands or hiding away from the eyes of anyone who would kill a draconian (most people).
I would guess that they have females, just to make it interesting and to keep them in line with the usual draconians.
As for draconians, I think they would really hate these new good draconians. A racial issue perhaps... that could lead to a good few story ideas.
#4
zombiegleemax
May 05, 2004 21:14:12 I would agree with SweatMeats, I think the two draconian races would have animosity between them. Maybe not from of the dracs in Teyr but from the noble draconians. Something I was wondering was they're whereabouts. I think it would be good to see a story about how they found refuge on an island, or somwhere outside of Ansalon, and made they're way back to Ansalon following the War of Souls. Maybe to aid the other races? I don't know. Point is, I don't see how they can "hide" for so long and not be noticed. I love the idea and can't wait to play one. BTW..are they included in encounter charts?
#5
iltharanos
May 05, 2004 21:37:16 It's also possible that people (humans, elves, dwarves, etc.) have seen a Noble Drac or two, but have mistaken them for Dragonspawn (e.g. Saw a Flame Drac, but thought it was a Red Dragonspawn).
#6
zombiegleemax
May 06, 2004 3:38:52
Originally posted by Nived

The Vapor gave me pause since it casts spells as a mystic. When they were created mysticm 'didn't exist'. Is this a continuity error, or a clue to a puzzle. In the War of Souls Takhisis took credit for bringing mysticm to the world, assuming the queen of lies was telling the truth, could it be that these 'mistakes' with their inborn mysticm was where Takhisis learned it, to later teach it?

The problem with that theory of mine is of course the Kyrie, and older and established race have inborn mysticm.

Anyways, thoughts on how to fit Noble Drac's into your game, where are they at? Where are they going? Do they have females? How would Kang and the Draconians in Teyr respond to them?

For question about Mysticism: Takhisis taught people sorcery, not mysticism.
I think mysticism is always been there (like sorcery basicly). Creature like dragons have probably used it always. But during 5th age other races, with help of Goldmoon, and her mentor Sage found way to use this inner power also because there just wasn't anymore other Divine power.
And I think this mysterious man from Estwild (Sage) was actually silver dragon Mirror. So, it wasn't Takhisis, but dragon, who taught this power to people. And some races could have had this power in use even before 5th Age.

I was thinking using these new Drac's, by giving them some secure place where they live in hiding. Like tropical mountain island Karthay. And then time to time some of them goes adventuring.
I had idea using Teyr and Kang also: They would have heard some strange rumours about these strange dracs and would like to hire adventurers (others than draconians) to go and try to locate these fellows.
#7
zombiegleemax
May 08, 2004 6:57:18 Out of curiousity...could someone tell me the favored classes for each of the Noble draconians? Thanks!:D
#8
Dragonhelm
May 08, 2004 7:53:22
Originally posted by Slapstick_80
Out of curiousity...could someone tell me the favored classes for each of the Noble draconians? Thanks!:D

Frost - Fighter
Venom - Rogue
Vapor - Mystic
Flame - Barbarian
Lightning - Paladin!

You'll never guess which one is my favorite. ;)
#9
The_White_Sorcerer
May 08, 2004 8:23:32
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
Frost - Fighter
Venom - Rogue
Vapor - Mystic
Flame - Barbarian
Lightning - Paladin

Interesting.
Somehow I'd see draconians descended from whites favoring the barbarian class rather than the fighter clas.
I'm assuming that fighter would be a lightning's favored class if the 'No Paladins' rule was to be used, yes?
#10
Dragonhelm
May 08, 2004 8:34:20
Originally posted by The White Sorcerer
Interesting.
Somehow I'd see draconians descended from whites favoring the barbarian class rather than the fighter clas.
I'm assuming that fighter would be a lightning's favored class if the 'No Paladins' rule was to be used, yes?

Under the "Lightning Draconian as Characters" section, it mentions how most advanced NPC lightning dracs are mystics, who sometimes take levels in barbarian or ranger.

Hrm...I just realized the ranger wouldn't work, as you can only have magic from one source. Is this an exception to the rule, or are we looking at non-spellcasting rangers for this?

As for frost draconians, under the "Frost Draconian as Characters" section, it mentions how most advanced NPC examples are either fighters or barbarians. Seems your thoughts were pretty close to the mark.
#11
zombiegleemax
May 08, 2004 9:30:10
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
Under the "Lightning Draconian as Characters" section, it mentions how most advanced NPC lightning dracs are mystics, who sometimes take levels in barbarian or ranger.

Hrm...I just realized the ranger wouldn't work, as you can only have magic from one source. Is this an exception to the rule, or are we looking at non-spellcasting rangers for this?

As for frost draconians, under the "Frost Draconian as Characters" section, it mentions how most advanced NPC examples are either fighters or barbarians. Seems your thoughts were pretty close to the mark.

Erk! An error crept in here. Lightning draconian NPCs are almost always Paladins. As we compile official errata, I'll make sure we have the correction for this section.

There's a couple of options for draconians who want to use an alternate magic type. One would be to use the Epiphany rules and allow the draconian to switch his equivalent levels over to focused magic instead of ambient. For rangers we'll have options in the upcoming WAR OF THE LANCE book.

Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.
#12
zombiegleemax
May 08, 2004 18:13:19 Hmmm, I was hoping to see that the vapors favored class was socerer or wizard. I'd have to agree with The White Sorcerer, I would have thought that Frosts would be more 'barbaric' than a Flame. Anywho.....what's everyone opinion on arcane spellcasting noble draconians? Which would be more able, likely, and/or best-fitting to become a sorceror or wizard?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Nived May 05, 2004 11:58:25	One of the newest additions to Dragonlance, officially anyway I know Jamie conceptualized them back in the early ninties, is the Noble Draconians. Their history is set, but vauge, as is their possibilities for a future, they are right now very much clay in the hands of a DM. So I've been wondering, how do some of you plan on molding the Noble Dracs into DL history. One of the things that strike me off the bat are the abilities of the Vapors and the Lightnings. First let me talk about some general things that struck me. I was re-reading the Doom Brigade when the Beastiary came out, and a certain passage struck me. When Kang first encounters the Dark Knights it said the Red Dragon mount looked at him with disgust, but also fear, fear because what could happen to one clutch of eggs could just as easily happen to another. How true. Now obviously Noble Draconians didn't officially exist then, however one can make this work into their history. Perhaps creation of the Noble Dracs was a well kept secret, not even Takhisis' dragons knew of it. So where did the eggs come from? Most logically clutches of eggs belonging to chromatic dragons who died in the service of the Dark Queen. Next we have the Lightnings who are, as far as I know, the only race in D&D not from the higher planes who are inherently Paladins, whom simpley are connected to the gods of good. While an excellent concept is does cause some eyebrows to be raised. Yet does give an excellent answer to a basic question about Noble Draconians in general, how did they escape? They were bred, considered failures, and marked for destruction in the middle of one of the Dragonarmies most secure strongholds, how could they have escaped? The Lightning Draconian give a pretty fair answer, the Gods of light gave the lightnings the power to save their people, what few their were to begin with and lead them out of bondage. On the purely mechanical side of things, many of the Lightning Drac's abilities stack with paladin levels, and are listed as functioning (the same as a paladin of the same level... but the Lightning doesn't have a special mount though a human paladin of th same HD would. At what level would a Lightning Drac get a special mount if he took paladin levels? The Vapor gave me pause since it casts spells as a mystic. When they were created mysticm 'didn't exist'. Is this a continuity error, or a clue to a puzzle. In the War of Souls Takhisis took credit for bringing mysticm to the world, assuming the queen of lies was telling the truth, could it be that these 'mistakes' with their inborn mysticm was where Takhisis learned it, to later teach it? The problem with that theory of mine is of course the Kyrie, and older and established race have inborn mysticm. Anyways, thoughts on how to fit Noble Drac's into your game, where are they at? Where are they going? Do they have females? How would Kang and the Draconians in Teyr respond to them?
#2 zombiegleemax May 05, 2004 14:50:58	When I created the noble draconians, in my own version of events, I had a history that detailed just how the young noble draconians were liberated from captivity and saved from slaughter. Over ten years ago, I posted a detailed version of it on alt.fan.dragonlance. Though my story could now never be due to the events of the Chaos War and Fifth Age, at the time it was my personal answer to one of the early mysteries of Dragonlance--the fate of Gilthanas and Silvara. It was the elven noble and silver dragon who rescued the noble draconians and then secreted them away and raised them in isolation from a world that would never understand them. This is not official, of course, but was a fan-created storyline of mine back in "the day." I've intentionally left the details of the noble draconian's past and future vague so there is room for development. Jamie Chambers Sovereign Press, Inc.
#3 sweetmeats May 05, 2004 18:50:09	Originally posted by Nived Anyways, thoughts on how to fit Noble Drac's into your game, where are they at? Where are they going? Do they have females? How would Kang and the Draconians in Teyr respond to them? I don't have the BoK yet. Hopefully by the end of the week. Fingers Crossed But from the preview here is how I look at it. I don't think they exist in enough numbers to actually "be at" anywhere. They are perhaps in small bands or hiding away from the eyes of anyone who would kill a draconian (most people). I would guess that they have females, just to make it interesting and to keep them in line with the usual draconians. As for draconians, I think they would really hate these new good draconians. A racial issue perhaps... that could lead to a good few story ideas.
#4 zombiegleemax May 05, 2004 21:14:12	I would agree with SweatMeats, I think the two draconian races would have animosity between them. Maybe not from of the dracs in Teyr but from the noble draconians. Something I was wondering was they're whereabouts. I think it would be good to see a story about how they found refuge on an island, or somwhere outside of Ansalon, and made they're way back to Ansalon following the War of Souls. Maybe to aid the other races? I don't know. Point is, I don't see how they can "hide" for so long and not be noticed. I love the idea and can't wait to play one. BTW..are they included in encounter charts?
#5 iltharanos May 05, 2004 21:37:16	It's also possible that people (humans, elves, dwarves, etc.) have seen a Noble Drac or two, but have mistaken them for Dragonspawn (e.g. Saw a Flame Drac, but thought it was a Red Dragonspawn).
#6 zombiegleemax May 06, 2004 3:38:52	Originally posted by Nived The Vapor gave me pause since it casts spells as a mystic. When they were created mysticm 'didn't exist'. Is this a continuity error, or a clue to a puzzle. In the War of Souls Takhisis took credit for bringing mysticm to the world, assuming the queen of lies was telling the truth, could it be that these 'mistakes' with their inborn mysticm was where Takhisis learned it, to later teach it? The problem with that theory of mine is of course the Kyrie, and older and established race have inborn mysticm. Anyways, thoughts on how to fit Noble Drac's into your game, where are they at? Where are they going? Do they have females? How would Kang and the Draconians in Teyr respond to them? For question about Mysticism: Takhisis taught people sorcery, not mysticism. I think mysticism is always been there (like sorcery basicly). Creature like dragons have probably used it always. But during 5th age other races, with help of Goldmoon, and her mentor Sage found way to use this inner power also because there just wasn't anymore other Divine power. And I think this mysterious man from Estwild (Sage) was actually silver dragon Mirror. So, it wasn't Takhisis, but dragon, who taught this power to people. And some races could have had this power in use even before 5th Age. I was thinking using these new Drac's, by giving them some secure place where they live in hiding. Like tropical mountain island Karthay. And then time to time some of them goes adventuring. I had idea using Teyr and Kang also: They would have heard some strange rumours about these strange dracs and would like to hire adventurers (others than draconians) to go and try to locate these fellows.
#7 zombiegleemax May 08, 2004 6:57:18	Out of curiousity...could someone tell me the favored classes for each of the Noble draconians? Thanks!:D
#8 Dragonhelm May 08, 2004 7:53:22	Originally posted by Slapstick_80 Out of curiousity...could someone tell me the favored classes for each of the Noble draconians? Thanks!:D Frost - Fighter Venom - Rogue Vapor - Mystic Flame - Barbarian Lightning - Paladin! You'll never guess which one is my favorite. ;)
#9 The_White_Sorcerer May 08, 2004 8:23:32	Originally posted by Dragonhelm Frost - Fighter Venom - Rogue Vapor - Mystic Flame - Barbarian Lightning - Paladin Interesting. Somehow I'd see draconians descended from whites favoring the barbarian class rather than the fighter clas. I'm assuming that fighter would be a lightning's favored class if the 'No Paladins' rule was to be used, yes?
#10 Dragonhelm May 08, 2004 8:34:20	Originally posted by The White Sorcerer Interesting. Somehow I'd see draconians descended from whites favoring the barbarian class rather than the fighter clas. I'm assuming that fighter would be a lightning's favored class if the 'No Paladins' rule was to be used, yes? Under the "Lightning Draconian as Characters" section, it mentions how most advanced NPC lightning dracs are mystics, who sometimes take levels in barbarian or ranger. Hrm...I just realized the ranger wouldn't work, as you can only have magic from one source. Is this an exception to the rule, or are we looking at non-spellcasting rangers for this? As for frost draconians, under the "Frost Draconian as Characters" section, it mentions how most advanced NPC examples are either fighters or barbarians. Seems your thoughts were pretty close to the mark.
#11 zombiegleemax May 08, 2004 9:30:10	Originally posted by Dragonhelm Under the "Lightning Draconian as Characters" section, it mentions how most advanced NPC lightning dracs are mystics, who sometimes take levels in barbarian or ranger. Hrm...I just realized the ranger wouldn't work, as you can only have magic from one source. Is this an exception to the rule, or are we looking at non-spellcasting rangers for this? As for frost draconians, under the "Frost Draconian as Characters" section, it mentions how most advanced NPC examples are either fighters or barbarians. Seems your thoughts were pretty close to the mark. Erk! An error crept in here. Lightning draconian NPCs are almost always Paladins. As we compile official errata, I'll make sure we have the correction for this section. There's a couple of options for draconians who want to use an alternate magic type. One would be to use the Epiphany rules and allow the draconian to switch his equivalent levels over to focused magic instead of ambient. For rangers we'll have options in the upcoming WAR OF THE LANCE book. Jamie Chambers Sovereign Press, Inc.
#12 zombiegleemax May 08, 2004 18:13:19	Hmmm, I was hoping to see that the vapors favored class was socerer or wizard. I'd have to agree with The White Sorcerer, I would have thought that Frosts would be more 'barbaric' than a Flame. Anywho.....what's everyone opinion on arcane spellcasting noble draconians? Which would be more able, likely, and/or best-fitting to become a sorceror or wizard?