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Questions about time travel

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
raistlinrox
May 16, 2004 15:16:05 What would happen if a draconian traveled back in time to before the War of the Lance? Would it have any adverse effect on him, or would he just be an abberation of that time?

And what about people who use unconventional magic from the 5th age? People who use mysticism or sorcery who travel back in time to a prior age? I would think that their magic would work, because it still "exists" technically, since the user is able to manifest the powers. This could be a way if people wanted to use bards, sorcerers, mystics, or any class that uses mysticism or sorcery, to kinda change history and introduce this "new" magic in earlier ages. Any thoughts on this?
#2
zombiegleemax
May 16, 2004 15:37:01 Wow, that's brilliant! I never even considered that possibility. A mystic during the Age of Despair, imagine how popular he could become, flaunting magic of Mysticism and healing the sick, easing the despair of the people who have lost faith in the Gods. The War of Lance may have never taken place, were that the case... The Seeker Religion could have taken stronger hold, had they had 5th age magic at their disposal... wow!
#3
kipper_snifferdoo_02
May 16, 2004 16:49:26 The DLCS explains that it was the passing of Chaos that allowed access to mystiscm and sorcery. So a Mystic traveling back to the Age of Despair would lose the connection to their powers.

As for a draconian travelling back in time, they are not a "Graygem" race so I would think they would be treated like humans, gnomes, elves or ogres.
#4
Matthew_L._Martin
May 16, 2004 17:31:39
Originally posted by Kipper Snifferdoo
As for a draconian travelling back in time, they are not a "Graygem" race so I would think they would be treated like humans, gnomes, elves or ogres.

Par-Salian thought they were 'forbidden', according to Time of the Twins, but it hinges on the question of whether it's the taint of Chaos or the fact that they weren't part of the world's birth that makes them dangerous to time travel. Given that gnomes aren't Chaos-touched (at least, according to most theories) but still disrupt the River of Time, I'd be inclined to the latter, but that raises questions and problems of its own.

Personally, I don't think anyone on Krynn gets time travel properly, and that the 'Greygem races' forbiddance is due to an incomplete understanding of the way the River flows. :-)

Matthew L. Martin
#5
lily_knight
May 17, 2004 0:10:41 It was my opinion that Chaos passing strengthened ambient magic enough so that mortals could harness it. With Hickman's view on time travel as a river, I would be inclined to agree that a human/elf/ogre travelling back in timewould change nothing.

A mystic and sorcerer's magic would be weakened and they would need a fairly high cha or wis score to recieve even the most basic spells. Plus the fact that if a Wizard of High Sorcery caught them practicing magic outside the bounds of the conclave, they would most likely 'disappear.'

Now if a draconian went back in time, he runs the risk of being discovered before the war. If that happens, then it is possible (although highly unlikely) that the good dragons discover what happened to their eggs and join the war sooner.

It is my opinion that a DM must make the decision within the context of a certain situation. No one can really tell what will happen should a draconian be sent back in time to a random location.
#6
raistlinrox
May 17, 2004 2:35:10
Originally posted by Kipper Snifferdoo
[b]The DLCS explains that it was the passing of Chaos that allowed access to mystiscm and sorcery. So a Mystic traveling back to the Age of Despair would lose the connection to their powers.

I don't mean to sound like I don't believe you, but could you give me a reference page for that? I feel that once someone has learned to do something, like harness primal magic or mysticism, then they wouldn't forget it, because the source is still there. The mystic still would know how to channel the power of his heart, and the sorcerer would likewise know how to control the "primal" magic of Krynn that has always been there, just not known about.
#7
kipper_snifferdoo_02
May 17, 2004 6:32:19
Originally posted by raistlinrox
I don't mean to sound like I don't believe you, but could you give me a reference page for that?
[/b]

It's on Page 49 of the DLCS "The Influence of Chaos".

I feel that once someone has learned to do something, like harness primal magic or mysticism, then they wouldn't forget it, because the source is still there. The mystic still would know how to channel the power of his heart, and the sorcerer would likewise know how to control the "primal" magic of Krynn that has always been there, just not known about.

It's not a problem of forgetting or not, it is just that since the advent of High Sorcery the connection to creation magic (ie. primal sorcery and mystism) began to wane. The source may be there, but it is not possible for a mystic or sorcerer to make the connection to it. Plus during the Age of Despair the source "was reduced until it nearly vanished". So the source was simply not available for mystics or sorcerers.

So a sorcerer travelling to the Age of Despair is about as effective as a cleric after the Cataclsym. They haven't forgotten how to cast their spells. The "source" is still there, they simply can't plug into/access that tyype of magic in that time frame.
#8
zombiegleemax
May 17, 2004 11:31:44
Originally posted by Kipper Snifferdoo

So a sorcerer travelling to the Age of Despair is about as effective as a cleric after the Cataclsym. They haven't forgotten how to cast their spells. The "source" is still there, they simply can't plug into/access that tyype of magic in that time frame.

I believe the true clerics left Krynn before the Cataclysm, people still had access to the "source", but they didn't know the gods didn't abandon them.
#9
zombiegleemax
May 17, 2004 11:52:17
Originally posted by raistlinrox
What would happen if a draconian traveled back in time to before the War of the Lance? Would it have any adverse effect on him, or would he just be an abberation of that time?

They would be considered as bakali or a sub-kind of bakali, not an abberation.

Time of the Dragon, p.75: it is said that the bakali existed way before the Cataclysm.
Even though they are more a Taladas race, they can be found in Ansalon.
#10
zombiegleemax
May 17, 2004 15:06:01 Yeah, they are talked about in The Kagonesti book (Vol. 1, Lost Histories)

They've been around for centuries!
#11
brimstone
May 17, 2004 15:20:17
Originally posted by Darlantan
They've been around for centuries!

To say the least...they were created during the Age of Starbirth...long before the humans, ogres, and elves. They are children of Krynn...much like the dragons and animals are. Where as the humans, ogres, and elves are children of the stars...so to speak.
#12
zombiegleemax
May 17, 2004 16:28:20 According to Chronomancer(1995) the River of Time in Krynn seperates into many different streams, each of which is an equally " true" version of history, so there is no possiblity of actual changes in the history of Krynn, although it is possible for individuals to get into an alternate time stream.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 raistlinrox May 16, 2004 15:16:05	What would happen if a draconian traveled back in time to before the War of the Lance? Would it have any adverse effect on him, or would he just be an abberation of that time? And what about people who use unconventional magic from the 5th age? People who use mysticism or sorcery who travel back in time to a prior age? I would think that their magic would work, because it still "exists" technically, since the user is able to manifest the powers. This could be a way if people wanted to use bards, sorcerers, mystics, or any class that uses mysticism or sorcery, to kinda change history and introduce this "new" magic in earlier ages. Any thoughts on this?
#2 zombiegleemax May 16, 2004 15:37:01	Wow, that's brilliant! I never even considered that possibility. A mystic during the Age of Despair, imagine how popular he could become, flaunting magic of Mysticism and healing the sick, easing the despair of the people who have lost faith in the Gods. The War of Lance may have never taken place, were that the case... The Seeker Religion could have taken stronger hold, had they had 5th age magic at their disposal... wow!
#3 kipper_snifferdoo_02 May 16, 2004 16:49:26	The DLCS explains that it was the passing of Chaos that allowed access to mystiscm and sorcery. So a Mystic traveling back to the Age of Despair would lose the connection to their powers. As for a draconian travelling back in time, they are not a "Graygem" race so I would think they would be treated like humans, gnomes, elves or ogres.
#4 Matthew_L._Martin May 16, 2004 17:31:39	Originally posted by Kipper Snifferdoo As for a draconian travelling back in time, they are not a "Graygem" race so I would think they would be treated like humans, gnomes, elves or ogres. Par-Salian thought they were 'forbidden', according to Time of the Twins, but it hinges on the question of whether it's the taint of Chaos or the fact that they weren't part of the world's birth that makes them dangerous to time travel. Given that gnomes aren't Chaos-touched (at least, according to most theories) but still disrupt the River of Time, I'd be inclined to the latter, but that raises questions and problems of its own. Personally, I don't think anyone on Krynn gets time travel properly, and that the 'Greygem races' forbiddance is due to an incomplete understanding of the way the River flows. :-) Matthew L. Martin
#5 lily_knight May 17, 2004 0:10:41	It was my opinion that Chaos passing strengthened ambient magic enough so that mortals could harness it. With Hickman's view on time travel as a river, I would be inclined to agree that a human/elf/ogre travelling back in timewould change nothing. A mystic and sorcerer's magic would be weakened and they would need a fairly high cha or wis score to recieve even the most basic spells. Plus the fact that if a Wizard of High Sorcery caught them practicing magic outside the bounds of the conclave, they would most likely 'disappear.' Now if a draconian went back in time, he runs the risk of being discovered before the war. If that happens, then it is possible (although highly unlikely) that the good dragons discover what happened to their eggs and join the war sooner. It is my opinion that a DM must make the decision within the context of a certain situation. No one can really tell what will happen should a draconian be sent back in time to a random location.
#6 raistlinrox May 17, 2004 2:35:10	Originally posted by Kipper Snifferdoo [b]The DLCS explains that it was the passing of Chaos that allowed access to mystiscm and sorcery. So a Mystic traveling back to the Age of Despair would lose the connection to their powers. I don't mean to sound like I don't believe you, but could you give me a reference page for that? I feel that once someone has learned to do something, like harness primal magic or mysticism, then they wouldn't forget it, because the source is still there. The mystic still would know how to channel the power of his heart, and the sorcerer would likewise know how to control the "primal" magic of Krynn that has always been there, just not known about.
#7 kipper_snifferdoo_02 May 17, 2004 6:32:19	Originally posted by raistlinrox I don't mean to sound like I don't believe you, but could you give me a reference page for that? [/b] It's on Page 49 of the DLCS "The Influence of Chaos". I feel that once someone has learned to do something, like harness primal magic or mysticism, then they wouldn't forget it, because the source is still there. The mystic still would know how to channel the power of his heart, and the sorcerer would likewise know how to control the "primal" magic of Krynn that has always been there, just not known about. It's not a problem of forgetting or not, it is just that since the advent of High Sorcery the connection to creation magic (ie. primal sorcery and mystism) began to wane. The source may be there, but it is not possible for a mystic or sorcerer to make the connection to it. Plus during the Age of Despair the source "was reduced until it nearly vanished". So the source was simply not available for mystics or sorcerers. So a sorcerer travelling to the Age of Despair is about as effective as a cleric after the Cataclsym. They haven't forgotten how to cast their spells. The "source" is still there, they simply can't plug into/access that tyype of magic in that time frame.
#8 zombiegleemax May 17, 2004 11:31:44	Originally posted by Kipper Snifferdoo So a sorcerer travelling to the Age of Despair is about as effective as a cleric after the Cataclsym. They haven't forgotten how to cast their spells. The "source" is still there, they simply can't plug into/access that tyype of magic in that time frame. I believe the true clerics left Krynn before the Cataclysm, people still had access to the "source", but they didn't know the gods didn't abandon them.
#9 zombiegleemax May 17, 2004 11:52:17	Originally posted by raistlinrox What would happen if a draconian traveled back in time to before the War of the Lance? Would it have any adverse effect on him, or would he just be an abberation of that time? They would be considered as bakali or a sub-kind of bakali, not an abberation. Time of the Dragon, p.75: it is said that the bakali existed way before the Cataclysm. Even though they are more a Taladas race, they can be found in Ansalon.
#10 zombiegleemax May 17, 2004 15:06:01	Yeah, they are talked about in The Kagonesti book (Vol. 1, Lost Histories) They've been around for centuries!
#11 brimstone May 17, 2004 15:20:17	Originally posted by Darlantan They've been around for centuries! To say the least...they were created during the Age of Starbirth...long before the humans, ogres, and elves. They are children of Krynn...much like the dragons and animals are. Where as the humans, ogres, and elves are children of the stars...so to speak.
#12 zombiegleemax May 17, 2004 16:28:20	According to Chronomancer(1995) the River of Time in Krynn seperates into many different streams, each of which is an equally " true" version of history, so there is no possiblity of actual changes in the history of Krynn, although it is possible for individuals to get into an alternate time stream.