The Tunnel Wanderers – The Dwarven Gypsies
The Tunnel Wanderers are the Rockhome version of Gypsies. They travel from place to place in the lands beneath the Known World.
Ideas:
Travel in unexplored tunnels. Have had contacts with shadow elves, moulder dwarves, UnderYord Swirfneblin and other creatures of the underworld. Occasionally, they even have such creatures join their ranks.
Dislike work
Known for the skills of kettle-making, even among dwarves
Use carts pulled by Rockhome Lizards.
Other versions of Rockhome Lizards
Warrior Lizard
Worker Lizard
Pet Lizards
Guard Lizards
Other Creatures used by the dwarves:
Boneless (Shadowelves are not the only ones who
Explorer Lizards (Can live on the surface, Footpad?).
Tauric Rockhome Lizard (Dwarf and Rockhome Lizard combination).
Tauric Basilisk (Dwarf Basilisk mix)
Basilisk, Domesticated.
Tauric Cockatrice (Cockatrice Morigswerg mix)
As usual, feedback is appreciated!
Håvard
Originally posted by havard
Below are some random ideas for Dwarves and Rockhome that I have come up with, but havent had time to develop yet. As said, it is all random thoughts so please bear with me if it looks incomplete.
The Tunnel Wanderers – The Dwarven Gypsies
I really like this idea- dwarf gypsies. Definitely cool. Unfortunately, I don't have anything to add off the top of my head, but I'll give it some thought and post a bit more later.
I've always wanted to develop the Mystaran "Underdark" some more than it has been. It seems like a really cool place. (Though I'd like a name other than Underdark for it.)
Off the top of my head, there are several "Underdark" locations:
Shadowelf caverns: Obviously. These would be the equivalent of the "Middledark", IMO.
Rockhome caverns: These are probably primarily "Upperdark", and also go throughout the mountain ranges (so are partially aboveground as well).
Broken Lands: Again, mostly "Upperdark" territories. These stretch from the Broken Lands to tunnels under the Ethengar Territories, the Orclands of Darokin, and (post-Wrath) beneath Glantri.
Plain of Fire: (can't think of the proper name offhand). Extensive caverns ranging from Upperdark to Lowerdark all across the Sind desert.
Glaurants' Territories: "Lowerdark", beneath the Five Shires and to the southeast of the Shadowelves.
Cynidicea: Beneath the Ylari desert. Upperdark to Middledark (possibly even Lowerdark?)
Barimoor: Primarily Upperdark, also beneath the Ylari desert.
Falun Caverns: Upperdark and higher (undermountain) in the Soderfjord Jarldoms.
There are also cavern systems in other regions- tunnels linking the Trollheim hills in Vestland with the Broken Lands; at least one major underdark passageway connecting Alfheim (via the sump and weir) with the Malpheggi swamps.
I think that's the major Underdark regions of the Known World. Unless someone else can think of something I've missed.
In any case, that gives us quite a few "Underdark" races to play with:
Elves (shadowelves and sheyallia elves)
Dwarves (with the cool gypsy clan you have)
Glaurants
Humans (Cynidiceans, Ylari/Alphatian followers of Barimoor)
Humanoids (Orcs, Bugbears, Goblins, Hobgoblins, Gnolls, Trolls, Ogres, Kobolds)
IMC, there are also the Atruaghin humans of the Viper Clan (sometimes confused with the Tiger Clan, mostly due to the fact that they are rarely seen), who live in mounds and caverns to the south of the Atruaghin plateau. Inside the plateau itself are the albino people of the Badger clan.
How about the name Shadowdeep for Mystara's Underdark? It would reflect the Shadowelf presence, and also underline that Mystara's Underdark is actually not just all dark and evil, but more along the lines of grey. Although I envision quite a few evil races and monsters below the Known World, I think it should be dominated by civilizations who interract with eachother much like the nations above. There will be trade, politics and war, rather than mere evil races who want to kill everyone.
The largest civilization of Shadowdeep if we decide to go with that name, is that of the Shadowelves.
Cthulhudrew and tjedge mention quite a few more. In addition to those, there should be many communities of Morigswerg, Auld Gnomes of Underyord (Actually an invention of mine, further developed by Nicholas Hudson), although we might consider turning them into Swirfneblin. I'm sure we can place quite a few other races there aswell.
I see Rockhome as a portal between the Surface world and Shadowdeep, connecting these two worlds similar to how Sigil connects the planes in the Planescape Setting.
The Tunnel Wanderes (Dwarven name, anyone?), or Dwarven Gypsies as they are sometimes called, travel between all these different civilzations. They are not always welcome, but possess much information about the lands below.
What do you think?
Håvard
It would require a review of world politics if every nation suddenly had to take into consideration that entire nations live beneath their feet...
I would like to share an idea I read once in the Great Netbook of Plots (sorry I don't remember the author, it was the same one who suggested that completing the Chamber of the Spheres could counter the drain from the Nucleus of the Spheres).
Anyway, one of the side-plots in his campaign outline was that there is a gigantic cave beneath Alfheim. We're talking miles high and as wide as the entire plain that Alfheim grows on. (I know that is not consistent with the Mystara canon and shadowelf material, but hear me out). The roof of this gigantic cavern is held by gigantic pillars of rock. Huge monsterous worms - we're talking gargantuan purple worms or something - are gnawing at these pillars threatening the colapse of the celing and the destruction of the realm above.
As a campaign idea the heroes have to slay the worm(s) to prevent disaster. Unfortunately, by then two of the columns have been critically weakened. The heroes have to travel to an Outer Plane to the Granite Forest where fantastic trees of solid rock grows. They must bring back seedlings from the Granite Forest, plant them in the cave and water them with water from the Erdemounde - a fountain of life-giving water - to make the trees grow into new pillars.
:-) Jesper
Originally posted by havard
How about the name Shadowdeep for Mystara's Underdark? It would reflect the Shadowelf presence, and also underline that Mystara's Underdark is actually not just all dark and evil, but more along the lines of grey.
I like Shadowdeep. I can see the shadowelves coining this term, and it being adopted by the other races. Not to mention the other reasons you give.
The largest civilization of Shadowdeep if we decide to go with that name, is that of the Shadowelves.
I think they are definitely the biggest civilization- in the 'civilized' sense, certainly.
Cthulhudrew and tjedge mention quite a few more. In addition to those, there should be many communities of Morigswerg, Auld Gnomes of Underyord (Actually an invention of mine, further developed by Nicholas Hudson), although we might consider turning them into Swirfneblin. I'm sure we can place quite a few other races there aswell.
I had completely forgotten about the Modrigswerg! Good idea. I like this Underyord, as well (though I'll have to read more about it). Another possible gnomish community might be beneath the Wendarian mountains (remnants of the Torkyn Falls community from the Dragon___ of Mystara novels.) I always thought it would be interesting to have a dwarvish community in Glantri as well, hidden beneath the mountains (survivors of the 802 gold rush/plague)- but dwarves who were more of an evil bent than in Rockhome- due to their persecution by Glantrian wizards. They could also be physically changed as well, perhaps due to harboring dwarven refugees who have been experimented on by those selfsame Glantrians over the centuries. (Sort of a Mystaran duergar, in spirit, if not in form.)
Also- in addition to the upperdeep Atruaghin cultures, perhaps there are remnants of the Azcan people deeper down (middle and lowerdeep). Atruaghin did build his city Mictlan (later Aengmor and Oenkmar) in those caverns. Perhaps their descendants still roam the Shadowdeep?
I see Rockhome as a portal between the Surface world and Shadowdeep, connecting these two worlds similar to how Sigil connects the planes in the Planescape Setting.
The only problem I can foresee with our Shadowdeep expansion ideas is that in the Gaz's the shadowelves are considered to be legends and boogeymen (much like Spellweaver suggests above). If the dwarves are considered part of the Shadowdeep, we would have to explain why the shadowelves are not more widely known. (It could have as much to do with the depths involved- the dwarf caverns of Shadowdeep would be located much higher than the shadowelf territories, so maybe they don't interact much. Or it could be because the dwarves have their own dark secrets in the Shadowdeep, like the Modrigswerg, so they don't talk about it much. Or, I guess it could just be because no one asked them.
The Tunnel Wanderes (Dwarven name, anyone?), or Dwarven Gypsies as they are sometimes called, travel between all these different civilzations. They are not always welcome, but possess much information about the lands below.
What do you think?
I like it. I like it a lot.
Ever since I got the Underdark supplement for Forgotten Realms, I've been working on and off with a similar sort of thing for Mystara's underdark. I haven't done much (some conversions of shadowelves and monsters/ecology from Gaz13). Now I have a name for the project, and a lot more ideas to work with. If only I had the time to get everything done... *sigh*
Originally posted by Cthulhudrew
I like Shadowdeep. I can see the shadowelves coining this term, and it being adopted by the other races. Not to mention the other reasons you give.
Yeah, it makes sense that this name comes from the Shadow Elves. I have never liked how they don't really seem to have a name for their own nation btw.
Toying around with the Rockhome dictionay, the dwarven word for Shadowdeep might be something like Korrag Dul.
I think they (Shadowelves) are definitely the biggest civilization- in the 'civilized' sense, certainly.
Yeah, thats what I meant. The races you listed earlier, plus the Morigsverg and "Deep" Gnomes will probably make up the other major races present, though suggestions for more races are welcome also.
I think the actual Shadowdeep should cover only the Known World region and Grakkhalia. The lands below Norwold may be controlled by the Dragons of Wyrmsteeth or otherwise unavailable. Likewise, the Savage Coast Underdark, which has been discussed elsewhere (Including a race of ratmen) should be kept separate from the Shadowdeep IMO. Perhaps the two systems of caverns aren't connected, or perhaps a sea of Lava below Hule prevents communication between the two except for those who have found a way to fly across, perhaps using the hot air currents, ala the Gnomes of Taladas?
I had completely forgotten about the Modrigswerg! Good idea. I like this Underyord, as well (though I'll have to read more about it). Another possible gnomish community might be beneath the Wendarian mountains (remnants of the Torkyn Falls community from the Dragon___ of Mystara novels.) I always thought it would be interesting to have a dwarvish community in Glantri as well, hidden beneath the mountains (survivors of the 802 gold rush/plague)- but dwarves who were more of an evil bent than in Rockhome- due to their persecution by Glantrian wizards. They could also be physically changed as well, perhaps due to harboring dwarven refugees who have been experimented on by those selfsame Glantrians over the centuries. (Sort of a Mystaran duergar, in spirit, if not in form.)
Morigswergs should definately be in. I think some sort of Gnomish civilization should be included aswell. The Torkryn Falls idea is a good one. Although none of the Mystara novels were all that good, I like stealing the stuff that actually can be used as much as possible. Other races of dwarves are also certainly a possibility. I was once toying with the idea of a race of dwarves with a culture similar to the Forgotten Realms Drow, spider-worshippers and all.
Also- in addition to the upperdeep Atruaghin cultures, perhaps there are remnants of the Azcan people deeper down (middle and lowerdeep). Atruaghin did build his city Mictlan (later Aengmor and Oenkmar) in those caverns. Perhaps their descendants still roam the Shadowdeep?
Interesting. I like the idea of bringing more humans into the Shadowdeep. It is a very Mystaran thing to do IMO. The Cynicedians we already have, but their presence is quite moderate. It would be interesting to see what the Azcans living under ground for so long have developed into....
The only problem I can foresee with our Shadowdeep expansion ideas is that in the Gaz's the shadowelves are considered to be legends and boogeymen (much like Spellweaver suggests above). If the dwarves are considered part of the Shadowdeep, we would have to explain why the shadowelves are not more widely known. (It could have as much to do with the depths involved- the dwarf caverns of Shadowdeep would be located much higher than the shadowelf territories, so maybe they don't interact much. Or it could be because the dwarves have their own dark secrets in the Shadowdeep, like the Modrigswerg, so they don't talk about it much. Or, I guess it could just be because no one asked them.
Hmmm...yes you are right. The dwarves should know part of it IMO, but it would perhaps be best to keep them out of the big picture untill at least after WotI. OTOH, there may be other dwarven communities below Rockhome that have contact with both Rockhome and the other races....
Tunnel Wanderers
I like it. I like it a lot.
Hmmm..I'd like to do a writeup on these guys. I'll see what I can get done this weekend. Hmmm...it is sunny out there... :P
Ever since I got the Underdark supplement for Forgotten Realms, I've been working on and off with a similar sort of thing for Mystara's underdark. I haven't done much (some conversions of shadowelves and monsters/ecology from Gaz13). Now I have a name for the project, and a lot more ideas to work with. If only I had the time to get everything done... *sigh*
I was thinking I should get my hands on that supplement. How much of it can be ported directly into Mystara? Any other good ideas we can steal from there?
I know the time factor is annoying. I'd be very interested in seeing what you can come up with though!
Håvard
Now, responding to Jesper:
Originally posted by Spellweaver
Anyway, one of the side-plots in his campaign outline was that there is a gigantic cave beneath Alfheim. We're talking miles high and as wide as the entire plain that Alfheim grows on. (I know that is not consistent with the Mystara canon and shadowelf material, but hear me out). The roof of this gigantic cavern is held by gigantic pillars of rock. Huge monsterous worms - we're talking gargantuan purple worms or something - are gnawing at these pillars threatening the colapse of the celing and the destruction of the realm above.
As a campaign idea the heroes have to slay the worm(s) to prevent disaster. Unfortunately, by then two of the columns have been critically weakened. The heroes have to travel to an Outer Plane to the Granite Forest where fantastic trees of solid rock grows. They must bring back seedlings from the Granite Forest, plant them in the cave and water them with water from the Erdemounde - a fountain of life-giving water - to make the trees grow into new pillars.
Sounds like a really cool scenario. It might have worked better if the cave only covered the area below Alfheim Town. It would still have to be pretty huge. I really like those Granite Trees growing into Pillars though...
And ofcourse, Gargantual Purple Worms...
Håvard
Originally posted by havard
Yeah, it makes sense that this name comes from the Shadow Elves. I have never liked how they don't really seem to have a name for their own nation btw.
Same here. "Shadowelf Territories" just never quite sounded right. Maybe we should take a look at some elvish and see what we can come up with?
[b]Toying around with the Rockhome dictionay, the dwarven word for Shadowdeep might be something like Korrag Dul.
That sounds pretty good. I love that dwarvish dictionary from Gaz6- though I wish there were more of it. (I've often toyed with adding a bit more, being a hobbyist in linguistics... a very marginal hobbyist, mind. If I ever go to grad school, that will be my major of study.)
I think the actual Shadowdeep should cover only the Known World region and Grakkhalia... the two systems of caverns aren't connected, or perhaps a sea of Lava below Hule prevents communication between the two except for those who have found a way to fly across, perhaps using the hot air currents, ala the Gnomes of Taladas?
One thing that comes immediately to mind is that maybe someone has done something to make those caverns inaccessible from the east? Perhaps the Master of Hule, recalling the invasions of humanoids several millenia ago, and taking measures to ensure that easterners cannot do the same thing? Or maybe the Black Mountains themselves provide a barrier that extends not just above ground but below? (There might even be a myth or story about that, how they are a "wall" guarding the eastern boundaries.)
Interesting. I like the idea of bringing more humans into the Shadowdeep. It is a very Mystaran thing to do IMO. The Cynicedians we already have, but their presence is quite moderate. It would be interesting to see what the Azcans living under ground for so long have developed into....
True. I'll give it some thought and see what I can come up with.
Hmmm...yes you are right. The dwarves should know part of it I
I was thinking I should get my hands on that supplement. How much of it can be ported directly into Mystara? Any other good ideas we can steal from there?
It is actually very good (I've never been a huge FR fan, but most of their supplements for 3rd edition are surprisingly very good. Of the ones I have, the Silver Marches is the least interesting to me, mostly because the presentation seems dry and dull to me, not that it doesn't have anything useful- it does.)
As for what it (Underdark) provides- one of the reasons I haven't gotten too far into my own Mystara version is because Underdark is *so* useful, I don't really need to make my own version. It would only be for the benefit of others!
Seriously, the new races are pretty good (most of them are +x LA, which can be rough on a campaign- although I suppose if everyone is starting out with a level adjustment, it wouldn't be too bad).
The Prestige Classes could be adapted without too much trouble- and the thing about them that I love is that they are almost entirely campaign specific. What I mean about that is they are designed around a particular organization/concept (priests of Blibdoolpoolp, etc.) and not just "generic" ideas (a guy who really likes to use whips), which to me is what Prestige Classes should be. They shouldn't just be another class to tack on, but should represent special training and devotion to a particular organizational cause- thus be a major part of the campaign. May just be me, though.
I think the most useful part would be the environment rules- they give rules for combat, traveling, encounter tables (which could be modified slightly for non-Mystaran monsters). I absolutely love this section (similarly, that is my favorite part of Silver Marches- the rules for snow, rain, etc.)
The descriptions of the Underdark nations, obviously, isn't that applicable, but it can provide some ideas, and it gives a good overview of how the nations interact, etc.
All in all, I'd recommend it, but if you are looking to use it mainly for what you can borrow for a Mystara game, I'd try to see if I could find it a bit cheaper than cover price- Amazon US has some pretty good deals ($10 less, plus shipping, if you buy a couple of things it works out pretty well)- although it doesn't look like Amazon UK offers quite the same deals (only 1.8 GBP discount, not a lot, from what I recall of my recent currency exchanges). I see some listings on Ebay starting pretty low ($7.50 US up to $18 US).
I know the time factor is annoying. I'd be very interested in seeing what you can come up with though!
I've been writing a lot more recently, so hopefully I can start with something that I can get some feedback and help from the rest of you with. I know that just your coining the phrase "Shadowdeep" has already got me thinking of a descriptive introduction to it all, though.
Originally posted by Cthulhudrew
Same here. "Shadowelf Territories" just never quite sounded right. Maybe we should take a look at some elvish and see what we can come up with?
Indeed. I love how Jennifer Favia Guerra came up with elven names for the various elven clans, based on the word lists from the Silmarillion. I don't have that book around these days though.
That sounds pretty good. I love that dwarvish dictionary from Gaz6- though I wish there were more of it. (I've often toyed with adding a bit more, being a hobbyist in linguistics... a very marginal hobbyist, mind. If I ever go to grad school, that will be my major of study.)
Yeah, too bad there weren't more words. But like you said, we can expland the list by taking existing words and adding suffixes for instance. Linguistics eh? JRR would be proud ;)
One thing that comes immediately to mind is that maybe someone has done something to make those caverns inaccessible from the east? Perhaps the Master of Hule, recalling the invasions of humanoids several millenia ago, and taking measures to ensure that easterners cannot do the same thing? Or maybe the Black Mountains themselves provide a barrier that extends not just above ground but below? (There might even be a myth or story about that, how they are a "wall" guarding the eastern boundaries.)
This is a good explaination. This "Wall" could be magical, but it could also be natural; ie collapsed caves, lava streams etc....
FR Material:
It is actually very good (I've never been a huge FR fan, but most of their supplements for 3rd edition are surprisingly very good. Of the ones I have, the Silver Marches is the least interesting to me, mostly because the presentation seems dry and dull to me, not that it doesn't have anything useful- it does.)
I feel the same way. Even though FR never appealed to be, the quality of the books is awsome. Also, since both Mystara and the FR are more or less standard fantasy settings, using stuff from one and importing it to the other should be fairly easy. I also steal stuff from other settings like Kalamar, Dragonlance, Midnight etc when I find something useful.
As for what it (Underdark) provides- one of the reasons I haven't gotten too far into my own Mystara version is because Underdark is *so* useful, I don't really need to make my own version. It would only be for the benefit of others!
Neat! Would be nice to have it written up especially for Mystara though.
Seriously, the new races are pretty good (most of them are +x LA, which can be rough on a campaign- although I suppose if everyone is starting out with a level adjustment, it wouldn't be too bad).
I have never run campaigns with more powerful races, but I think having all the players use races of similar power would be the way to do it, or give a bonus level or two to those playing weaker races.
The Prestige Classes could be adapted without too much trouble- and the thing about them that I love is that they are almost entirely campaign specific. What I mean about that is they are designed around a particular organization/concept (priests of Blibdoolpoolp, etc.) and not just "generic" ideas (a guy who really likes to use whips), which to me is what Prestige Classes should be. They shouldn't just be another class to tack on, but should represent special training and devotion to a particular organizational cause- thus be a major part of the campaign. May just be me, though.
Campaign specific prestige classes is a good idea. I've found that many can still be stolen, by simply rewriting the fluff and keeping the Crunch. IMC I am thinking about using the Purple Knights for the Order of the Griffon for instance...
Thanks for the general review of Underdark btw, I've snipped it here, but it was quite useful.
I've been writing a lot more recently, so hopefully I can start with something that I can get some feedback and help from the rest of you with. I know that just your coining the phrase "Shadowdeep" has already got me thinking of a descriptive introduction to it all, though.
Cool that you like the name, I was quite happy with that idea myself. Keep posting your ideas!
Havard
Originally posted by havard
Indeed. I love how Jennifer Favia Guerra came up with elven names for the various elven clans, based on the word lists from the Silmarillion. I don't have that book around these days though.
There is another elvish lexicon on the Vaults (one for Wendar and one for Alfheim) that are based similarly on the Silmarillion, and which I've used (can't recall offhand who did them- Jonathan Nolan, I think.)
The only problem I had with the Wendar lexicon is that it doesn't fit precisely with a few known elvish words from X11 (Specifically, Genalleth, the elvish name for Wendar), but that's easily fixed. Still incredibly useful.
FR Material:
I feel the same way. Even though FR never appealed to be, the quality of the books is awsome. Also, since both Mystara and the FR are more or less standard fantasy settings, using stuff from one and importing it to the other should be fairly easy. I also steal stuff from other settings like Kalamar, Dragonlance, Midnight etc when I find something useful.[/QUTOE]
Definitely- they are very easy to adapt, as well, as you say.
Campaign specific prestige classes is a good idea. I've found that many can still be stolen, by simply rewriting the fluff and keeping the Crunch. IMC I am thinking about using the Purple Knights for the Order of the Griffon for instance...
Hadn't thought about that combination, but I'll give it a look. I adapted the Ravager for Mystara (substituting Orcus for Erythnul), and more recently the Alienist (works well as a cultist of the Outer Beings with some slight contextual adaptations). I've been trying to tweak (mechanically) the Dragon Disciple into the Dracologist, with what I feel is only limited success.
But I agree that many of these can be easily adapted, and by providing a contextual basis (the Order of the Griffon, for instance) they become a lot more interesting than just being "another" class. I like the Duelist, for example, but I just can't bring myself to adopt it as is. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to think of a Mystara concept/group that I could combine it with... grr.
Another example of this is a modification I did of the Assassin Prestige Class for one of the Almanacs- the Buraiya - where I dropped it into Sind and tied it with an existing cult. I made some slight mechanical changes, but ideally you wouldn't even have to do that.
BTW, speaking of PrCs, you mentioned Elven Griffon Riders the other day- in Unapproachable East there is a PrC of Aglarondan Griffon Riders. And to put it in a Mystaran context, in Gaz3 it mentions that Aliana Nyraviel has an elite group of elven griffon riders in her dominion.
Anyway, back to work.
I just looked over the elvish language article on the Vaults, and came up with a possible shadowelvish term for the Shadowdeep- Gwaithal (gwath= shadow, -ale= article indicating deep, see "tumbale- deep valley").
Not entirely happy with it, but I guess it's a start?
Originally posted by Cthulhudrew
Hadn't thought about that combination, but I'll give it a look. I adapted the Ravager for Mystara (substituting Orcus for Erythnul), and more recently the Alienist (works well as a cultist of the Outer Beings with some slight contextual adaptations). I've been trying to tweak (mechanically) the Dragon Disciple into the Dracologist, with what I feel is only limited success.
Some good ideas there. I've been thinking about the Dragon Disciple and Dracologists myself, but haven't really gotten beyond the thinking. I'm not really happy wioth any of my attempts to create PrCs..
But I agree that many of these can be easily adapted, and by providing a contextual basis (the Order of the Griffon, for instance) they become a lot more interesting than just being "another" class. I like the Duelist, for example, but I just can't bring myself to adopt it as is. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to think of a Mystara concept/group that I could combine it with... grr.
I dont really mind the Duelist being simply a generic PrC. OTOH, Im sure there are fighting schools in both Darokin, Belcadiz and on the Savage Coast which would suite that class perfectly.
Another example of this is a modification I did of the Assassin Prestige Class for one of the Almanacs- the Buraiya - where I dropped it into Sind and tied it with an existing cult. I made some slight mechanical changes, but ideally you wouldn't even have to do that.
Looking good!
BTW, speaking of PrCs, you mentioned Elven Griffon Riders the other day- in Unapproachable East there is a PrC of Aglarondan Griffon Riders. And to put it in a Mystaran context, in Gaz3 it mentions that Aliana Nyraviel has an elite group of elven griffon riders in her dominion.
Cool, I'll check them out. I was working on adapting the Dragon Rider from the Dragonlance Sourcebook and making it into a general Airborn Rider for use with the Retebius Airfleet, Knights of the Air, Milenian Griffon Riders etc etc...but the one you mention might work aswell.
I just looked over the elvish language article on the Vaults, and came up with a possible shadowelvish term for the Shadowdeep- Gwaithal (gwath= shadow, -ale= article indicating deep, see "tumbale- deep valley")..
Mor means dark, so I was thinking Moreledor for the Shadow Elf territories.
Mor=Dark
Ele=elf
Dor=Country
Actually shadow elf is Morgul Elas, but I can't make myself use the word Morgul, it would juist be too much Tokien IMO. Gwaithelas is a better word for Shadow Elves; that would make their country Gwaithelador.
How about Gwaithalin for Shadowdeep? Suffixes can be useful....
Havard
Originally posted by havard
Actually shadow elf is Morgul Elas, but I can't make myself use the word Morgul, it would juist be too much Tokien IMO...
I agree, plus it seems to me to be sort of a derogatory "surface elf" term for the shadowelves, and not something they'd be like to call themselves.
How about Gwaithalin for Shadowdeep? Suffixes can be useful....
There you go- that sounds better. Gwaithalin (or maybe two 'L's? Gwaithallin?)
Originally posted by Cthulhudrew
Gwaithalin (or maybe two 'L's? Gwaithallin?)
Gwaitallin it is!
Hmmm...and then the Shadow Elf favored weapons, the Gwaithelas Blades.....
Like you said, lots of fun with these dictionaries!
Håvard
Originally posted by havard
I feel the same way. Even though FR never appealed to be, the quality of the books is awsome. Also, since both Mystara and the FR are more or less standard fantasy settings, using stuff from one and importing it to the other should be fairly easy. I also steal stuff from other settings like Kalamar, Dragonlance, Midnight etc when I find something useful.
Then you'll definitely want to steal the dark elf culture and society from a certain upcoming D&D: Kingdoms of Kalamar book...
Here's a sneak peek at the back cover text.BLOOD AND SHADOWS: THE DARK ELVES OF TELLENE
BY TRAVIS FORSHEE AND MARK PLEMMONS
DEEP BENEATH THE SURFACE, AN ANCIENT WAR STILL RAGES. NOW, YOU MUST CHOOSE YOUR SIDE – BUT CHOOSE CAREFULLY…
Millennia ago, the elves of the Elenon Mountains were the envy of all – beautiful, strong and wise. Yet, pride goeth before a fall, and even the greatest are no exception. Now the dark elves live in exile, the hated rivals of the elves of the light - including the battered remnants of their mysterious twilight elf kin. Whether you become a bloodthirsty dark elf cleric, a dark elf fighter exiled for her purity and goodness, or even an honorable twilight elf soldier, this book gives you the knowledge, the skills and the equipment to begin your adventure!
BLOOD AND SHADOWS is loaded with Dungeons & Dragons (3.5 Edition) material, including:
- Two Elven Subraces! Join the dark elves in their quest for dominance, or side with the twilight elves as they guard their ancient home against their evil-touched kin.
- All New Prestige Classes! Become a brother of the twilight fist, divine chorister, guild artificer, hellbound, keel'thaile, or sister of the obsidian gaz'zirad.
- New Equipment and Magic Items! These sections contain normal and magic weapons, tools, armor, alchemy, poison and more.
- New Skills and Feats! Learn special details about life below the surface and how to master the special abilities that life in the ebon depths requires!
- Detailed Magic Sections! Learn about new spells and alchemy, and discover new uses for existing spells.
- Easy-To-Use Quick Reference Sections! Whether you need a new name for your character, immediate information on religion or how to translate an unknown word, these sections give you all the information you need.
- Culture and Society! Learn about social caste systems, military forces and tactics, and their views on creation, religion, dominance, loyalty and a myriad of other subjects, including trading practices, recreational habits, diet, clothing and much more!
- Psychology! Discover how to flesh your character into a living, breathing person with real relevance and connection to the campaign world.
- Backwards Compatible! Along with the new material, this book also includes ideas on how to utilize the existing information (races, classes, monsters, skills, spells, etc) in your campaign.
- Adventure Hooks, Campaign Ideas, Monsters and Much More! DMs learn secret information on monsters, magic items and the history of the dark and twilight elves - extremely useful for planning adventures. Make the dark elves into whatever you choose, be they interesting villains or a world-shaking threat!
Although usable in any campaign, this book is especially suited for the Kingdoms of Kalamar Dungeons & Dragons campaign setting - a realistic, dynamic world where complex political alliances mix with marauding bands of humanoids, and medieval technology and culture come face to face with magic and the fantastic. Whatever type of adventure you seek, you can find it here.
This Kingdoms of Kalamar supplement is intended for use by D&D players and Dungeon Masters (DMs) alike. To use this book in a Dungeons & Dragons campaign, you need a copy of the Player's Handbook, the Dungeon Master's Guide and the Monster Manual. You can also find further detail on the lands and cities of the Kingdoms of Kalamar campaign setting in the Kingdoms of Kalamar campaign setting sourcebook, the Kingdoms of Kalamar Player's Guide, or any of our other fine supplements and adventures.
Funny that so many Kenzer Co people drop by these boards. Coincidence?
Too bad Kenzer already has Kalamar. Convincing them to launch a non-Hackmaster version of Mystara would proabably be hard, wouldnt it? Although I know our favorite world would be in good hands if they did....
Håvard
Originally posted by havard
Too bad Kenzer already has Kalamar. Convincing them to launch a non-Hackmaster version of Mystara would proabably be hard, wouldnt it?
Yeah, I barely have time to get the current stuff done, much less with another world to juggle!
Originally posted by Mark_Plemmons
Yeah, I barely have time to get the current stuff done, much less with another world to juggle!
Too bad, but like you said, we can always steal the Kalamar stuff you guys publish and put it to our own use. Especially, using the conversion guidelines Mystaros posted in another thread. Please let us know when more applicable stuff is published for Kalamar
Håvard
This Shadowdeep place - could it be a good place to locate the underground dark fairy kingdom of Annwn?
It is mentioned in PC1 - and it never really fit in anywhere.
Originally posted by Lost Woodrake
This Shadowdeep place - could it be a good place to locate the underground dark fairy kingdom of Annwn?
It is mentioned in PC1 - and it never really fit in anywhere.
Good idea. I'd forgotten about Annwn. It should definitely be down in the Shadowdeep somewhere.
IIRC, Annwn is described as being "far" from the Fairy Court- I'd always assumed that meant maybe underneath the Savage Coast or something.
Underneath the Great Waste could work (somewhere around Graakhalia), or else "far" could simply refer to the depth underground... maybe Annwn is further down than even the shadow elf caverns?
Good question!
I think that Annwn should have contact with the other cultures of Shadowdeep. The gypsy-dwarves probably have some lore concerning them. The Shadow-Elves, as their above-ground cousins, should also have some linkage to "their" fairy-court.