d20 or new WotC material & how it relates to DS

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

Pennarin

Jun 18, 2004 14:51:06
I just got Eberron. Cool book. High quality. Action-oriented looking drawings, more akin to certain Comics than D&D.

What stuff would you adapt to DS?
The same with any other book you recently read...

- Action Points are great, but Champions (even though they are NPCs) would have them too IMO.
- Action-related feats
- Feats: Ashbound, Beast Totem, Beast Shape, Totem Companion, Child of Winter, Vermin Companion, Vermin Shape, Powerful Charge, Greater Powerful Charge, Precise Swing, Strong Mind, Undead Empathy, Urban Tracking, all item creation feats except bind elemental.
- Spells: WIZARD: Hardening, Maddening Scream, ARTIFICIER (making the spells Wiz spells): Armor Enhancement spells, Energy Alteration, Resistance Item, Skill, Enhancement, Spell Storing Item, Weapon Augmentation spells, Metamagic Item, Power Surge, Suppress Requierement
- Monsters: all the Homonculus, the Horrid Animal template, Karrnathis Skeletons and Zombies

So that's pretty much it.
#2

Pennarin

Jun 19, 2004 11:57:37


Come on! Unearthed Arcana was very popular, lots of people bought it. You telling me that I'm the only one on the Boards that owns Eberron?

I also finally got my hands on The Complete Book of Eldritch Might!
Anyone wants to know wath's adaptable in it?
#3

xlorepdarkhelm_dup

Jun 19, 2004 12:14:40
Honestly, I wasn't impressed in the slightest by what I've seen about Eberron that WotC has revealed on their website. It quite honestly is nowhere near the kind of setting I like, and probably will not ever get any Eberron material.

I have the books of eldritch might, but not the "complete" one :P However, be careful, WizO_Drake might get upset if you start talking about products released by companies other than WotC here.
#4

zombiegleemax

Jun 19, 2004 13:21:51
I would incorporate some races presented by Monte Cook's Arcana Uneartherd [edited after Xlorep clarifying notes ] . In fact, I'll do it on my own campaing...

And ... since you bought Eberron Pennarim... how is it like? How is the setting??

Ah, by the way, I would incorporate the action points (Monte Cook's) also....
#5

xlorepdarkhelm_dup

Jun 19, 2004 14:35:28
Action Points are something from d20 Modern that made their way to Unearthed Arcana (the WotC book, not to be confused with Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed, which is more like a campagin setting book, with some variations on the standard d20 rules integrated in it - I don't know if they made their way there too or not). Unearthed Arcana's a book that has nothing but variant rules in it, many of which I personally will be using, but I honestly don't think it is possible to use ALL the rules variants it presents. I wasn't impressed with Cook's Arcana Unearthed, and never bought it (I saw enough of it flipping through the book at a bookstore). Isn't it fun when two different publishers use the same name for a book, just with the words in reversed order? And before you claim Arcana Unearthed came out before Unearthed Arcana, keep in mind that Unearthed Arcana was a book from 2nd Edition AD&D as well.
#6

Pennarin

Jun 19, 2004 15:15:48
I was very impressed with Malhavoc Press' Arcana Unearthed. The Diamond Throne setting itself leaves me cold but the alternate player's handbook (which is what Arcana Unearthed is) is full of ideas:

- The revamping of the item creation feats, to make them not related to wands or staffs but to spell-completion and such, with names like Craft Charged Item, Craft Single-Use Item, Craft Spell-Completion Item. They cooked up tons of 1st-level feats, they call them Talents, and they've got about 43 ceremonial feats which give you a special ability after completing a ceremony with others like-minded.

- All spells have been revamped, allowing for the option to cast with heightened or diminished effects. A little like what the XPH did for powers. All spells fit into three categories: simple, complex, exotic, which correspond to ever higher spell levels. Not all classes get access to complex or exotic spells and must take on the Complex Spell or Exotic Spell feats to do so.

- The undead creation through spells has been normalised, finally!, through very simple spells: lesser and greater Animate the Dead spells for corporeal undead (in the same page we get a very simple undead template that can be applied to virtually anything) that as you cast the more powerful version you get to give your undead more special abilities conveniently listed, and ther'S the exact same set-up (template, abilities) for incorporeal undead through the spell Rouse Undead Spirit.

- About 20 spell templates (acid, blessed, psionic, permanent, eldritched, enemy bane, programmed, subdual, ...), which are special rules that characters can add to most spells to change their parameters or requirements. They can be applied with the appropriate feats.

- Classes are entirelly alternate, with so many customizable options in each class that you can make something like 50 different PCs with these rules. There's the Akashic wich delves into collective memory to get powers (of which there are 26 to choose from); the Champion, which follows a cause (light, Darness, Death, Life, Magic, Freedom) and focuses its devotion (upon a Race, Place, Person). You can make your own causes and some new are given on Monte Cook'S website; Greenbond is frankly the druid-like class the most appropriate for DS; Totem Warrior, based upon the spirit of an animal (6 examples are given + a complete walkthrough as to how to invent new totems); ...

- New Races

- Skill descriptions often more complete and thought through than for the PHB

- the list goes on...
#7

ranger_reg

Jun 20, 2004 3:14:57
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm

Isn't it fun when two different publishers use the same name for a book, just with the words in reversed order?

It is kinda funny, especially when ex-Wizards employee (and author of the 3e DMG) Monte Cook asked WotC if it's okay. At that time, they didn't plan on reviving Unearthed Arcana. Fast forward in time, WotC decided they want to.


And before you claim Arcana Unearthed came out before Unearthed Arcana, keep in mind that Unearthed Arcana was a book from 2nd Edition AD&D as well.

Technically, Unearthed Arcana is a 1st Edition AD&D book.
#8

nytcrawlr

Jun 20, 2004 10:27:35
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
And before you claim Arcana Unearthed came out before Unearthed Arcana, keep in mind that Unearthed Arcana was a book from 2nd Edition AD&D as well.

Ah, but it originated with 1st edition.



Bah, nevermind, REG beat me to it. :P
#9

xlorepdarkhelm_dup

Jun 20, 2004 14:16:32
Originally posted by Ranger REG
Technically, Unearthed Arcana is a 1st Edition AD&D book.

Don't confuse the issue with facts!
#10

Pennarin

Jun 20, 2004 15:10:15
What this thread is there for is to list some of the ressources you have found, at home, that have DS applications. I personally make extensive use of the arcane spells found in Eldritch Might for powerful characters.

What good books have you bought that left a "definitally DS material there" feel when you read them? From both WotC and d20?
#11

zombiegleemax

Jun 21, 2004 7:46:07
althought not a RPG book, there are tow things that inspire me as if they were DS-like: Dune, the romance. And Mad Max the movie, just remove the technologie and add some magic and there it is... Dark Sun (of course I'm exagerating..)
#12

zombiegleemax

Jun 21, 2004 13:19:07
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
I have the books of eldritch might, but not the "complete" one :P However, be careful, WizO_Drake might get upset if you start talking about products released by companies other than WotC here.

As long as you relate it to Dark Sun, I have no problem with it.

Let me throw a couple of ideas out here.

First, Green Ronin has a Psychic's Handbook. Has anyone ever considered using it for psionics in Dark Sun?

Arcana Unearthed was mentioned above. What about using the totem warrior with DS-specific creatures?
#13

xlorepdarkhelm_dup

Jun 21, 2004 13:31:52
Originally posted by WizO_Drake
As long as you relate it to Dark Sun, I have no problem with it.

Let me throw a couple of ideas out here.

First, Green Ronin has a Psychic's Handbook. Has anyone ever considered using it for psionics in Dark Sun?

Arcana Unearthed was mentioned above. What about using the totem warrior with DS-specific creatures?

Well, I'll keep that in mind then. I haven't gotten the Psychic's Handbook - is that the one that makes psionics closer to how force-skills work in Star Wars? I need to track one down :P Of course, I need a job to be able to pay for it too...
#14

Dragonhelm

Jun 21, 2004 16:09:16
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
Well, I'll keep that in mind then. I haven't gotten the Psychic's Handbook - is that the one that makes psionics closer to how force-skills work in Star Wars? I need to track one down :P Of course, I need a job to be able to pay for it too...

Yeah, the Psychic's Handbook has a psionics system that is very similar to the Force in Star Wars. You have "enabling feats" which grant you access to psionic skills. You pay for using a psionic skill through strain, which I believe is non-lethal damage.

The 5 basic enabling feats are the classic psionic disciplines (not including metacreativity). The feel is a bit more like 2e psionics. I'd recommend picking it up. The XPH is a bit better of a book and more mainstream, but the Psychic's Handbook is a good alternative. Plus, you can use them side-by-side (although you'd have to figure out how to do flavor).
#15

nytcrawlr

Jun 21, 2004 16:23:51
Will definately have to check out the Psychic's Handbook then...
#16

xlorepdarkhelm_dup

Jun 21, 2004 16:51:36
Same here.
#17

Pennarin

Jun 23, 2004 14:58:09
I'd seriously consider using the Magewright NPC class from Eberon. Like the DMG's Adept, its spellcasting ability is very limited and only goes as far as 5th-level.
The class is taken by those who are not good enough to be wizards. But they can still master some spells, only a few. They practice so much those spells that even though they are bad at spellcasting, they succeed in casting them. The result is they don't need spellbooks.
They get Spell Mastery (the feat) at 1st, 4th and every 4 other levels. Its the only time they learn new spells. And the number, like specified in the feat, is limited to the Magewright's Int score.
Just like many elven and dwarven communities have adepts, I'd say they also have magewrights.

Remember the old recluse studying Kalidnay, at the end of the Veilled Alliance book? I'd make him a Magewright.

What do you think? Anyone actually read the class?
#18

afromonkey

Jun 23, 2004 16:07:45
I saw the magewright in a dragon magazine, I think, and I loved it! Magewright could be good for NPCs in dark sun because of the lack of spellbooks to be discovered. The class also appealed to me as it had more focus on character than power.
#19

Pennarin

Jun 23, 2004 17:13:18
The Eberon book unfortunately doesn't say how the Magewright gets to study spells in the first place: access to a spell-book at one time, another magewright as a teacher, etc.

For DS, I'd say the magewright gets access to scrolls or even the pages of a spellbook (bead patterns, tattoos), but keeps them secret for years until he learns them by roth, and then discards the medium.

Not that good an idea, but if you can do better please do
#20

zombiegleemax

Jun 24, 2004 7:35:21
Couldn't we assume that he just discovered then? In the PHB3.5 it is said that a mage can research and discover (alone, without having to copy from somewhere) the spells listed there (PHB).

So, since he's the magewright is an expert in the spells he's able to cast, it could be because he probably invented/discovered/reserarched then. Since he doesn't need a spellbook to keep his spells, he wouldn't need a lab to reserach t hen... :-)

I used to do it with my wizards on DS (of course, it bit harder than above, they had to pay with xp points to learn, and usually took two levels to adjust the new spell, it could be used just after gained... but still had some flaws - 30% of failling, 1% fumble).
#21

afromonkey

Jun 24, 2004 8:37:30
I would say they just discover them through continued practice of, perhasp, similar spells. I don't see them as researching new spells though.
#22

Pennarin

Jul 03, 2004 21:12:35
I just got Arcana Unearthed's Legacy of the Dragons.

- The Arachtar, a medium aberration that looks like a Shadows from Babylon 5, is a great addition to any conspiracy/paronoia story arc that needs a covert infiltrator into a given society, a little like a Yuan-ti's ability to hide amongst humans.

- The Bog Salamander makes a great addition to trips into Troll Grave Chasm.

- A Bone Viper makes for an horrific parasite to inflict upon a slave, like in The Verdant Passage and its brain-burrowing worm.

- A Briar Beast walks around with a living briar patch on itself that it uses to grab victims. Perfect for hidden attacks amongst briar patches of the Crescent Forest.

- The Darval is a huge aberration so freakish it has to be a species you can encounter around the Pristine Tower, or other places with transmogrification capabilities.

- The Dread Helminth is another, Alien-like parasite that comes out of a creature when that creature dies. Guarantied to freak-out your PCs!

- An Hypnolox makes for a good wilderness encounter that injects confusion into the party. Make sure at least one party member is immune to mind-affecting attacks.

- Mud Slimes are for marshes.

- The Slaughterfiend, a kind of worm, is another killing machine akin to a Nightmare Beast.

- The Staj, a small magical beast, leaves its victims blind, as its specialty is to extract a foe's eyes.
#23

Kamelion

Jul 04, 2004 3:31:23
Monte rocks. Thanks for the heads-up, Penn adds to wishlist
#24

zombiegleemax

Jul 04, 2004 5:47:57
I've been very hesitant about Eboron for some time now. After reading a few of the Q&A threads here and over at Enworld with Kieth Baker, I think there may actually be some geographical material in there well worth supplanting into DS. I may be wrong, but hopefully I can get at least some of my money's worth out of it.
#25

xlorepdarkhelm_dup

Jul 04, 2004 9:52:17
Still having a hard time being interested. I think, beyond Dragonlance and Dark Sun, for pre-canned, fantasy campaign settings, my next choice would have to be the Warcraft RPG. Of course, I also have (somewhere) some of the Planescape books, and I don't mind running a plane-hopping campaign as well.

Still need to get back to my homebrew setting tho...
#26

Pennarin

Jul 17, 2004 0:45:39
I just got the Miniatures Handbook, yeah I know I'm late!

Someone mentionned in the PrC thread that a undead hunter would be cool for DS. Well the Skullclan Hunter is perfect for it, with specifying that the Divine Strike ability is a kind of Smite Undead.
Requirements:
- ability to turn undead is still ok, although it limits the class to clerics and templars
- Knowledge (religion) could be made Knowledge (undead)

How does that look?